Easy... it's difficult to understand CarlosFM snubberized language! 😛
But I am learning, I am learning 😀
At least I think I am....
But I am learning, I am learning 😀
At least I think I am....
loong said:
Another question, just observe in the diagram that you are using two tranf (?). Is each of them (22V,0)ac where the secondaries with 'dot' symbol is 22V and the other is 0V ?
I think that T1 and T2 are actually the two secondary windings of one transformer.
My question is where do you buy those little yellow triangle things and what value are they? 🙄
apart from "limiting" current, what does the R in the CRCCS (! 😉 ) do and why specifically after the first cap?
Where did the smaller-cap-at-the-chips's-pins advice go?
I gave up updating the psu after the initial snubber polemic. (I confess, i am but a 'follower' in the whole high-capacitance snubberized thing. My amps are by now not the bottleneck in my system anymore. That, and I'm getting lazy 😉 )
I'm starting to love the terminology (...):
high capacitance snubberized CRCCS PSU
Where did the smaller-cap-at-the-chips's-pins advice go?
I gave up updating the psu after the initial snubber polemic. (I confess, i am but a 'follower' in the whole high-capacitance snubberized thing. My amps are by now not the bottleneck in my system anymore. That, and I'm getting lazy 😉 )
I'm starting to love the terminology (...):
high capacitance snubberized CRCCS PSU
I see with a lot of sadness that are to the legend ( and to the acronyms ). The motive for which the snubber net ( or power factor corrector, as is corrected say in this case ) proposed by CarlosFM is able change the sound is that a lot of proposed kit has the separate PSU by the amplifier, and not the ESR LOW capacitors are used on the card of the Amp. A net of the kind, goes planed holding account of the type of second-hand capacitors, of the distance among the PSU and AMP and V and I the involved thing. I have nothing against this theories, but I see that nearly all the frequent visitor to this forum consider "fundamental". Any sets the problem to verify the amelioration (measurable) of the CMRR ( this acronym is homologated ) that is gotten inserting a good quality caps among +Vcc and -Vcc of any OPamp ( technical used by Elliott, D. Self and other ). I am among what doesn't accept the sentence " so sounds better " without a minimum of technical motivations.
In brief: I share a lot of impressions exposed by Carlosfm on GC and by-products, believe that he has a base from suitable "audiophile", even believe that her line on the PSU is "honest" base on the results that has gotten at home his, but I would open of more even to other approaches, perhaps on scientific base and not only acoustic.
Mauro
In brief: I share a lot of impressions exposed by Carlosfm on GC and by-products, believe that he has a base from suitable "audiophile", even believe that her line on the PSU is "honest" base on the results that has gotten at home his, but I would open of more even to other approaches, perhaps on scientific base and not only acoustic.
Mauro
pinkmouse said:
Well that shouldn't be much of a problem, there's always the gc supersymmetry thread. Although it's called ss, not x
The problem is that sometimes the scientific data tells you that you have a “non-audiophile” approach.
But when you turn on the amplifier, it's a complete different history and sometimes you get amazed with these “non-audiophile” techniques.
In my opinion, hearing is always the ultimate test! I just can’t tell if something is bad if I don’t try it
Nuuk said:
Yes.
The version of Circuit Maker that I use (6.2c) doesn't have single trafo with dual independent secondaries...
Nuuk said:
😀 😀 😀
matjans said:
It lowers the ripple, as usual on a CRC or CLC arrangement.
Limiting current is not an issue, as most the capacitance is after the resistor.
The old Musical Fidelity A1 used a CRC PSU with a 0.47R/2W resistor. And that was a class-A amp.
Now they use chokes on some amps.
matjans said:
No more small cap, if you are refering to the 100uf caps.
Now it's 2,200uf on the chip, snubberized.
matjans said:
I don't understand why, really.
I just shared my findings, people are free to try it or not, believe it or not, understand it or not.
But a peaceful discussion is much more enlightning.
matjans said:
We have to call it something.😀
maupenas said:
Mauro, I did too many tests with these amps and shared them here.
You can put the big caps and the whole PSU as near as you can to the chips, bypass with small caps on the chips. It will not sound good, and you will go away from chip amps altoguether, saying that chips are junk, not for serious amps.
What I do to my amps I do it for me.
Sometimes I decide to share my findings here, some try them and report their results.
My goal is not to make money out of this, as this is not my way of living. I have my job and many other things to make me busy.
Everyone is free to measure (JosephK did some) and report "scientific" proofs of the benefits (or not) of a snubber.
I don't have the time to go to all that trouble, and I don't care.
Who does care and has the time, be my guest.
I do understand what this is all about and for me it's all too obvious.
But because of the ambient around here I just share what I want.
Take it or leave it, it's only my word... until you test it.😉
XELB: I am in pursuance of you, but my "scientific" thought me allows for example to get the same "acoustic" result using an other configuration, or to analyse the realities reason for which some circuit works better than an other. The scientific nature not excludes at all the subjective analyses, but confirms it.
An example of my thesis is really GC: Creeds that N.S. has developed LM3875 on "scientific" base or with of "subjective" listening?
PS: I share with tea the passion for the audio, that have to before my bases technical, but I succeed to do it cohabit well the 2 things 🙂
ciao
Mauro
An example of my thesis is really GC: Creeds that N.S. has developed LM3875 on "scientific" base or with of "subjective" listening?
PS: I share with tea the passion for the audio, that have to before my bases technical, but I succeed to do it cohabit well the 2 things 🙂
ciao
Mauro
carlosfm:
I am pragmatic and instinctive in the express my ideas ( believe as you ), but this not me prevents to accept ( or bear ) your ideas. Creed that your contribution in this forum is from all considered a lot of main point, and non-being some I he persists in believing it. How to have already written, we have a lot of common opinions. the only thing that ( in accordance with my thought ) it's not constructive is put the dialogues on a personal plan, and or give for discounted the things. Hope that works in electronic circle, possess a technical baggage and some tools offensive non-being for any! naturally understand that my language to times is "annoying", and I take the part when define my choices technical as a "defence". I hope of has not you given the feeling to think him was things of tea, because is not what think.
PS: Is not thrilling, after having realized about tens of amplifiers to solid state even in class A to feel say that understand nothing of amplifiers, PSU, audio ECC..., only because I have proposed some simple idea ( that not did not want be a reference in absolute but an approach ).
PEACE AND LOVE
Ciao
Mauro
I am pragmatic and instinctive in the express my ideas ( believe as you ), but this not me prevents to accept ( or bear ) your ideas. Creed that your contribution in this forum is from all considered a lot of main point, and non-being some I he persists in believing it. How to have already written, we have a lot of common opinions. the only thing that ( in accordance with my thought ) it's not constructive is put the dialogues on a personal plan, and or give for discounted the things. Hope that works in electronic circle, possess a technical baggage and some tools offensive non-being for any! naturally understand that my language to times is "annoying", and I take the part when define my choices technical as a "defence". I hope of has not you given the feeling to think him was things of tea, because is not what think.
PS: Is not thrilling, after having realized about tens of amplifiers to solid state even in class A to feel say that understand nothing of amplifiers, PSU, audio ECC..., only because I have proposed some simple idea ( that not did not want be a reference in absolute but an approach ).
PEACE AND LOVE
Ciao
Mauro
maupenas said:PS: Is not thrilling, after having realized about tens of amplifiers to solid state even in class A to feel say that understand nothing of amplifiers, PSU, audio ECC..., only because I have proposed some simple idea ( that not did not want be a reference in absolute but an approach ).
PEACE AND LOVE
Ciao
Mauro
Mauro, don't take me wrong but you or anybody else can make thousands of discrete or tube amps and when it comes to make a chip amp some of your decisions may impart on the sound of the whole amplifier, because you don't have experience with it.
You may have 50 years of experience, but there's always a learning, developing and improving curve when using a new part.
But the reverse can happen with me with discrete or tubes and everyone can learn here, so let's keep an open mind and enjoy the music.😎
Thinking that one can make a new amp and hit the spot at first try, whoever he is, is a very wrong assumption.
It's like using a good op-amp and making it sound bad. I've seen this from "reputed" designers.
Peace and love.
PS: the PSU is the most important thing on an amplifier.
Carlos,
Your thought is able is shareable, but seems me excessively criticize. We take an oath example: N.Pass has proposed a lot of applications found on LM38xx but don't believe that some is able allow to say him that has to accept a curve of learning because you comes from the solid state are.
I personally believe that greater is the experience ( even indirect ) on the controversial greater theme is the ability of comprehension.
Mauro
Your thought is able is shareable, but seems me excessively criticize. We take an oath example: N.Pass has proposed a lot of applications found on LM38xx but don't believe that some is able allow to say him that has to accept a curve of learning because you comes from the solid state are.
I personally believe that greater is the experience ( even indirect ) on the controversial greater theme is the ability of comprehension.
Mauro
maupenas said:
I love to see any efford to go away from the datasheet circuits, and you are doing it too.
I have been saying for long too that what's on the datasheet is very basic and easily improvable.
National engineers got shocked when they saw Jeff Rowland buying LM3886 chips to make high-end amps.
Even when Nelson Pass made the first schematic of the Susy he said it "should work" and it "should sound good".
The schematic has evolved and became a working amplifier with the effords of several members, like Metalman and others.
You can eventually make your amp stable and put it to work with a (decent sounding) slow op-amp in front.
Will it be worth the efford, will it be an improvement? Maby yes, maby not.
Then someone may eventually try to build it.
But don't get surprized if in the end people will snubberize the PSU.😀
There is not problem, LM38xx for my is a starting point, for you one of arrival. Here not there is diatribe, only view diverged.
The same Pass continues to experiment new configurations.
I do it for fun and because my references from "audiophile"| are other ( valves, class A etc|...). GC "sounds" much well but not to the height of my references High-End. Probably not never will succeed, but doesn't interest me. I like the technological challenges.
Good work
Mauro
The same Pass continues to experiment new configurations.
I do it for fun and because my references from "audiophile"| are other ( valves, class A etc|...). GC "sounds" much well but not to the height of my references High-End. Probably not never will succeed, but doesn't interest me. I like the technological challenges.
Good work
Mauro
There is also a technological challenge in the chip amps.maupenas said:
I gain my audiophile experience hearing Acustic Arts, Audio Analogue, Rega, etc… only state of the art.
Recently I heard a Jeff Rowland Concerto playing in one of the best speakers I know.
And believe me, you will not say that is a chip amp.
This recently experience make me believe that chip amps can go far…. and Tripath is another prove of that.
I also have a friend that is putting his effort in the development of chip amps, in this case, is doing is won chip.
As you see, you have also a big technological challenge here, making a chip amp or a chip that sounds like the references in A class or AB class.
This is like cars talk, carburettors versus electronic injection.
I like the unique sound and sensibility of a carburettor but, I also like the performance of a good electronic injection. That why I have two cars. 😎
But in terms of performance, electronic injection is the state of the art.
Maybe in the future chip amps will also be. 😉
Ps: We are just in the middle of a changing era. In a couple of years we will know the real value of chip amps. We just have to wait 😉
To this time any firm don't know to make " on chip " large PNP transistor. Till the time when they will know it, chip amps will be still worse than discrete ones. 😎
I share much of your analysis. She does it wicked is that I did experiments with the TDA2030 in output when NS had not still invented the serious "Overture".
I am a precursor of the new technology, but I intend define it on a technical base and not stop me to LM38xx from datasheet only because Rowland has done a good ampli ( inexplicably expensive ).
If it is not enough, the projects that have proposeded in this forum is always innovative in comparison with the use commune.
If /you wants be able say that doesn't improve, but not some that I am conservative.
There is to say that not all the "audiophile" are convinced that the electronicses that have quoted are of the references. ( and the reckoning that pays when to dominate is the taste and not the reason )
Ciao
Mauro
I am a precursor of the new technology, but I intend define it on a technical base and not stop me to LM38xx from datasheet only because Rowland has done a good ampli ( inexplicably expensive ).
If it is not enough, the projects that have proposeded in this forum is always innovative in comparison with the use commune.
If /you wants be able say that doesn't improve, but not some that I am conservative.
There is to say that not all the "audiophile" are convinced that the electronicses that have quoted are of the references. ( and the reckoning that pays when to dominate is the taste and not the reason )
Ciao
Mauro
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