The great Tang-Band Simul-build.

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raypalmer

raypalmer

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Joined 2008
#1
Well as most of you know, building two pairs of speakers at once is a lot quicker than building them separately. With that in mind I intend to build my own next pair of speakers along these which are being built for my father.


Here's what I want to build:


A 2" full-range driver in an sealed cab responding to the 100-300Hz area which will be supplemented on the low-end by a small subwoofer a separate cab giving me response down to 40-45Hz. I can't install sketchup on my lappy due to windows sucking so I'll have to illustrate what I mean on the OH's mac when she's not looking.


Here are my two preliminary driver choices:

http://solen.ca/pdf/tangband/w51138sm.pdf
http://solen.ca/pdf/tangband/w2852sh.pdf

It looks like crossing these two over at 400Hz would be good?

I'm thinking both cabs will need to be ported. I'd like front-firing because I don't have much room to space cabs from the wall with.
 
#2
Here's a pretty crude sketchup...
 

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#3
400hz seems fine.

The "fast" system is gaining popularity.

I suggest you cross the drivers where the baffle step -3db is.

Perhaps have the baffle be 11" wide (f3 = 400hz).

I wouldn't port the 2" driver, seal it for excursion ctrl.

I'd play with a pa active crossover until you are sure of crossover points and levels at the volume you listen at. And a 24db will keep the .2" driver cleaner or less harsh


I'm entertaining the w2-803sm for a small 4 unit mini array crossed at 200hz.

I like 200hz@24db LR crossover point. To me it keeps the mids in the full range driver.
A 6.5" is the cone area I like / need (dual 4" drivers). I tend to occasionall listen louder for movies.


Norman
 
#7
an impressive amount considering the size. I had it tuned to 55Hz in 4 liters BR. it's the classical "Q: can you turn off the subwoofer, so I can hear the bass of the small thing? A: the sub is off..." in this size the bass is not very deep, but powerfull and only with stuff like 5 string bass or organ you'll want deeper bass

if you have the room for a larger box, put 2 in a TL and they realy shine, with nice deep and clean bass
 
#9
norman bates said:
The "fast" system is gaining popularity.
Click to expand...

Here is another example:

Tysen-comp.jpg


We are quite chuffed with its performance, FF85KeN + SDX7 sealed, PLLXO at ~333Hz, The assymetrical slopes in the XO (2nd order on midtweeter, 1st order on woofer) help with BSC,

There are a huge number of potentially good combos for FAST these days.

dave
 
#11
It refers to a system utilising a full-range driver as a mid-tweeter accompanied by a woofer/subwoofer, typically with a moderately low crossover point.

I will guess the anacronym as Fullrange Assisted Subwoofer Topology?


Looks like a nice design anyhow. I will second not porting your fullranger, it creates a less predictable rolloff compared to sealed as well as detracting from excursion control 🙂
 
#14
planet10 said:


A ported mid-tweeter is not a good idea. An aperiodic TL is my preference for loading.

dave
Click to expand...


My initial gut-instinct was to seal the little box.... an aperiodic tl box is a tempter, but design+build complexity are probably a bit too much for me just yet.

Can anyone point me to a (lay-person's) article to outline the whys and fors of front-fire/rear-fire BR boxes for the little sub. I need to reassure myself about where the cancelling wave will come in.
 
#15
raypalmer said:
... an aperiodic tl box is a tempter, but design+build complexity are probably a bit too much for me just yet.
Click to expand...

Not very hard or complicated... here is the part of Tysen plans showing the midTL. The driver holey brace is not strictly necessary.

Design is very forgiving and set-of-the-pants methods are just fine.

dave
 

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#16
planet10 said:


Not very hard or complicated... here is the part of Tysen plans showing the midTL. The driver holey brace is not strictly necessary.

Design is very forgiving and set-of-the-pants methods are just fine.

dave
Click to expand...

Okay, I can do that:up:

So how do I calculate the necessary taper/volume/opening for my 2" TB?
 
#17
planet10 said:
We are quite chuffed with its performance, FF85KeN + SDX7 sealed, PLLXO at ~333Hz, The assymetrical slopes in the XO (2nd order on midtweeter, 1st order on woofer) help with BSC,

There are a huge number of potentially good combos for FAST these days.

dave
Click to expand...

Dave, it would appear that bi-amping is mandatory for the PLLXO as the xo goes in between the pre-amp and the amp. Am I interpreting that correctly?

For those of us with one amp, I was wondering if the series xo that Tony Gee employed on his Paper HATT might work. I modeled it in PCD and it was very nice. I believe the concerns Gee stated about bass leaking through the inductors wouldn't be an issue. What's your opinion of this simple passive, single amp xo?

John
 
#19
HareBrained said:
it would appear that bi-amping is mandatory for the PLLXO as the xo goes in between the pre-amp and the amp. Am I interpreting that correctly?
Click to expand...

Yes. A PLLXO is a passive (very inexpensive) active XO. For those with more than 1 amp it is a no-brainer. For those without, it is possibly worth considering getting a 2nd amp (for bass duties it is amazing what the $10-30 thrift store "amp" can do.

series xo... the concerns Gee stated about bass leaking through the inductors wouldn't be an issue. What's your opinion of this simple passive, single amp xo?
Click to expand...

I like series XOs. But...
1/ price the cost of parts for a 200-400 Hz XO. At these frequencies, it has to be air-core, and to minimize the leakage Tony is concerned with (still real, but not as threatening as with a regular tweeter), it has to have as low a resistance as possible. You might find that getting a budget amp, making a PLLXO (and maybe having to create a pre-out/amp-in on your current amp) may come out cheaper.
2/ you are limiting your choice of midbass driver on the bottom to those that are more efficient than the mid-tweeter,
1 & 2 apply to parallel XOs too
3/ with a series XO, you can't use the assymetrical trick for BSC so that puts more limits on the design.

dave
 
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