i have just put up the Frugel-Horn Project page... and the 1st alpha version may be playing music by the end of the weekend.
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/frugel-horn.html
dave
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/frugel-horn.html
dave
Fostex 108 vs FE126
Dave said:
But is the sound twice as good, as the FE108's are twice the price of the FE126 drivers???
Very interesting project, Dave! Keep us posted if you can tweak the 126 drivers to perform up to the other drivers.
Lyndon
Dave said:
But is the sound twice as good, as the FE108's are twice the price of the FE126 drivers???
Very interesting project, Dave! Keep us posted if you can tweak the 126 drivers to perform up to the other drivers.
Lyndon
Re: Fostex 108 vs FE126
How do you measure that? Do you take into consideration that performance tends to have a logarithmic relation with price? Do you take into account that the FE108eS can often be had used (ie broken in) for the same price as FE126e? Do you take into account you need twice the watts for the same levels?
The FE126e sounds very good. The modded FE126 better (some of the rough edges taken off).The FE108eS (IMHO) sounds better yet. In the context of a Frugel-Horn build, using FE108s increases the build cost by maybe 25% (ignoring labour but finishing them nicely).
I think which one you pick should have more to do with the amp you have & the levels you play at.
dave
LuckyLyndy said:
How do you measure that? Do you take into consideration that performance tends to have a logarithmic relation with price? Do you take into account that the FE108eS can often be had used (ie broken in) for the same price as FE126e? Do you take into account you need twice the watts for the same levels?
The FE126e sounds very good. The modded FE126 better (some of the rough edges taken off).The FE108eS (IMHO) sounds better yet. In the context of a Frugel-Horn build, using FE108s increases the build cost by maybe 25% (ignoring labour but finishing them nicely).
I think which one you pick should have more to do with the amp you have & the levels you play at.
dave
Under construction pictures of the alpha 1.2.1 are up
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/alpha121.html
dave
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/alpha121.html
dave
Member
Joined 2002
Want some, want some! Be a good replacement for my Zigmas. Hey, Tinitus, I like it! Reminds me of the Zhorn a bit.
Werry nice! This would be a nice first loudspeaker for me, if you would like to share the plans and details 🙂
lovechild said:
Chris phoned last night and said they didn't suck 🙂
I'm going over this afternoon for a listen. If i'm happy the plans will be released and we can start global alpha testing.
dave
Okay, now I can see the trick and importance of this special backloaded "hornmouth" - because of small size and therefore close coupling to the wall it gets very tight to the wall - the way the mouth opens wide gives more air between the wall and "hornmouth" - actually I have seen a backloaded Buschhorn made exactly this way.
In this case loading the horn mouth into a corner means that the mouth can be 1/8th the size it would need to be if in free air.
Ron Clarke has also designed a reflector that allows you to get the most out of it in situations where you can only wall load them
dave
Ron Clarke has also designed a reflector that allows you to get the most out of it in situations where you can only wall load them
dave
soongsc said:
"the person" is 1676mm x 68kg
It's quite amazing how big the little speakers can sound.
After a short listen this afternoon, Dave has already started ruminating on revisions to the plans that would make them a little easier for someone with limited machine access to construct... (i.e. fewer acute angles
The first conclusion from today's listening session is that the list of "frugally priced" drivers appropriate for this niche is probably very short, (and is brought to you by the letter "F"), and while intended to allow maximum driver flexibility, the CC as per original drawing is probably oversized for the 2 major candidates.
My personal second conclusion is that there is a pattern of synchronicity between any of the 4" Fostex FR drivers and a decently executed SE amp (in this case an "RH" EL84, implemented with all Solen film power supply caps and parallel feed )
Hey dave, been following posts here for a while and first off I have to say you do an awesome job in these forums, I havent seen any mod in any forum be so continually helpful and add so much to a forum. Im sure youve heard this before just thought it could use repeating. Im sure there are many lurkers that feel the same way but dont speak up.
Anyways, Im a still climbing the learning curve, so forgive me if this question has been answered before. I see that the horn action is 50-250hz. Do you think a high pass filter at 80hz would be a good match for the frugal horn? If so I think these could be great high efficiency HT speakers.
Also, now that you are starting to test it, I thought I might as well ask if you have heard the Fostex reference design horn for the fe126. If so it would be cool to get your opinion on the comparison.
If you havent, your opinion on these horns will still be greatly valued by many, looking forward to hearing what you think.
Thanks,
George
OT: (there are more Georges on this forum than I have met in my life!)
Anyways, Im a still climbing the learning curve, so forgive me if this question has been answered before. I see that the horn action is 50-250hz. Do you think a high pass filter at 80hz would be a good match for the frugal horn? If so I think these could be great high efficiency HT speakers.
Also, now that you are starting to test it, I thought I might as well ask if you have heard the Fostex reference design horn for the fe126. If so it would be cool to get your opinion on the comparison.
If you havent, your opinion on these horns will still be greatly valued by many, looking forward to hearing what you think.
Thanks,
George
OT: (there are more Georges on this forum than I have met in my life!)
George, if the Fostex recommended design you're referring to is the hybrid mini horn/BR, yes we've built a pair.
If I might speak on Dave's behalf, let's be nice and say that for someone considering them due to the size, and with at least 10w of power, the FE127 in the folded monopole MLTL would be a much better bet - and easier build.
In a brief initial audition yesterday afternoon we did play the FrugelHorns with a powered sub, (bipole Adire Extremis 6.8 in small ported enclosure) both with the horns full range and through the HP filter. It definitely adds a substantial foundation to the music, but as always, there's the issue of seamless integration and the disparate "signatures" of the electronics. For my taste, this sound is fine for home theater/video which is all about sounding bigger than life, but after only a few dozen minutes of music alone I develop listener fatigue.
I'm a huge fan of the synergy of a well implemented Single Ended tube and the Fostex drivers in virtually any horn or TL in which I've heard them. Thanks to the resources of my local "selective vintage audio recylcing centre" ( Dave), I've been able to build several such amp/speaker systems for welll under $500. To maintain the same degree of dynamic speed, coherency and transparency in the lowest end of the system will cost many times that amount, and is a goal about which I just can't get excited.
There is no perfect audio system, and sooner or later our individual life history and expectations allow (force) us to make compromises with which we (and our wallets and significant others) are comfortable. Of course for any of us spending this much time tinkering and reading tales of other's exploits, this hobby is as addicting as many chemical brain altering substsances, and there's always another thrill to try. I can't tell you how many times in the past 35 years I've sprained my metaphorical ankle jumping from one bandwagon to another.
George - yes, Dave's contribution to the DIY community through his website and forum participation is far more valuable than can easily be quantified.
If I might speak on Dave's behalf, let's be nice and say that for someone considering them due to the size, and with at least 10w of power, the FE127 in the folded monopole MLTL would be a much better bet - and easier build.
In a brief initial audition yesterday afternoon we did play the FrugelHorns with a powered sub, (bipole Adire Extremis 6.8 in small ported enclosure) both with the horns full range and through the HP filter. It definitely adds a substantial foundation to the music, but as always, there's the issue of seamless integration and the disparate "signatures" of the electronics. For my taste, this sound is fine for home theater/video which is all about sounding bigger than life, but after only a few dozen minutes of music alone I develop listener fatigue.
I'm a huge fan of the synergy of a well implemented Single Ended tube and the Fostex drivers in virtually any horn or TL in which I've heard them. Thanks to the resources of my local "selective vintage audio recylcing centre" ( Dave), I've been able to build several such amp/speaker systems for welll under $500. To maintain the same degree of dynamic speed, coherency and transparency in the lowest end of the system will cost many times that amount, and is a goal about which I just can't get excited.
There is no perfect audio system, and sooner or later our individual life history and expectations allow (force) us to make compromises with which we (and our wallets and significant others) are comfortable. Of course for any of us spending this much time tinkering and reading tales of other's exploits, this hobby is as addicting as many chemical brain altering substsances, and there's always another thrill to try. I can't tell you how many times in the past 35 years I've sprained my metaphorical ankle jumping from one bandwagon to another.
George - yes, Dave's contribution to the DIY community through his website and forum participation is far more valuable than can easily be quantified.
Guys,
The a121b build does not suck (i was not in a frame of mind to get into critical listening last night, but there was a period during at least a track or 2 of the Wailing Jennies where time just dissappeared... 🙂)
This build showed up some actual construction issues, which we'd like to remedy before widespread distribution of plans.
If anyone wants actual plans you can mail me (as i did promise to release them if our build didn't suck). As i believe there are some easy improvements to be made, i'd like to keep a handle on who has a121 plans and would suggest that, unless you are REALLY eagar, to wait till the next alpha version at least (alpha 2.0 is drawn and off to Chris for constructability considerations & to Scottmoose for simulation -- kudos to Scott for taking on this task).
I also forgot the camera last night so have no pictures to offer (i will get some, these are so cute -- the last a blessing & a curse ... huge WAF, but some will look at them and dismiss them as not to be taken seriously). In-room measures (with my crude system) will also be done.
dave
The a121b build does not suck (i was not in a frame of mind to get into critical listening last night, but there was a period during at least a track or 2 of the Wailing Jennies where time just dissappeared... 🙂)
This build showed up some actual construction issues, which we'd like to remedy before widespread distribution of plans.
If anyone wants actual plans you can mail me (as i did promise to release them if our build didn't suck). As i believe there are some easy improvements to be made, i'd like to keep a handle on who has a121 plans and would suggest that, unless you are REALLY eagar, to wait till the next alpha version at least (alpha 2.0 is drawn and off to Chris for constructability considerations & to Scottmoose for simulation -- kudos to Scott for taking on this task).
I also forgot the camera last night so have no pictures to offer (i will get some, these are so cute -- the last a blessing & a curse ... huge WAF, but some will look at them and dismiss them as not to be taken seriously). In-room measures (with my crude system) will also be done.
dave
Those look really good but I noticed there's a hole in the middle of the speaker. Did you not notice that? Looks way too big to caulk.😉
Who's the dusty guy with the big bandage on his chin?
More important, are they going to be finished and used somewhere? Might we get a listen this summer?
Who's the dusty guy with the big bandage on his chin?
More important, are they going to be finished and used somewhere? Might we get a listen this summer?