The competition was a Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS2, and a 01a DHT tube preamp.
So I was told.
😊
Patrick
So I was told.
😊
Patrick
Finally, I got to the end of the subjective listening over a few sessions with a bunch of friends. The goal here was also to post subjective impressions from a number of people, across a number of systems. Here you go:
December 2024
We had the first showing of the F5Pre yesterday at a friends place. He had two systems set up - one with SDplayer/AD1862/FC CEN IV as source, F5Pre or Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS2 as preamp, Aleph J as power amp and Spendor A9 speakers. There were 5 of us in attendance for a listen.
Second setup was more like my own - a custom linux small board computer feeding a diyinhk USB receiver, AD1862 dac with 3a5 (dht) output stage, 01a preamp, J2 as power amp (the one I built for him) and Quad 63 ELS speakers.
We listened first to the system with the CJ LS172 - which was really nice, the Spendor A9 speakers are very resolving, far more than I was expecting and it all sounded really good with the CJ preamp. Then we swapped over to the F5Pre and there was an immediate sense of deeper and tighter bass, and smoother highs. The CJ is no slouch and is a sought after preamp, so sets a high bar for any comparison.
Swapping over to the second system (really the first system as this is my friends main system), I felt there was a bigger challenge for the F5Pre as my friend really loves the 01a, and not without good reason - it has really fantastic soundstage, and pulls off a magical trick with vocals. Anyway, after some back and forth, it was clear the F5Pre was a different sound, but had tighter bass with no loss of highs. Both myself and others thought that there was more resolution with the F5Pre, but I have to acknowledge that if you love the DHT sound it is addictive, and ultimately I think if you had a free choice you would have both preamps so you could swap back and forth as you liked. Of course the F5Pre eliminates all the downsides that comes with using 90 year old valves. However, given that the F5Pre held its head up high, and is at least the equal of the best preamp that my friends have ever had it a very positive endorsement.
February 2025
A long delayed second audtion took place in another friend’s dedicated room for audio - the main system being various sources (main one used for the demo was Thorens TD124 deck with SME IV arm and Benz-micro LPS cartridge, Ayre 5x phonostage, followed by a 2P29L DHT preamp and Xen version of Pass J2 power amp. Speakers were the excellent Ruark Excaliburs. The normal sound here is beautifully detailed and full range, with a great soundstage and sense of dynamics. Although the speakers could call for many more watts than the J2 provides, it always seems more than enough to have a full and authoritative sound.
The F5Pre was added to the system instead of the 2P29L preamp - a direct swap. This 2P29L preamp is on the lesser side of the DHT sound - it keeps the great soundstage but its a cleaner and not as "warm" sounding as a 01a preamp with similar circuit.
The F5Pre was more neutral sounding than the 2P29L - and as in the previous audition, the bass tightness was noticeable. The 2P29L I think had a bigger soundstage, but the F5Pre had more precise positioning within the soundstage. The front to back depth was similar for both. The other noticeable difference was slightly increased dynamic effect from the F5Pre - but this was more noticeable on some tracks than others as you might expect.
As I look back on these 2 auditions, I realise that the main comparisons for both are with pretty high end valve preamps - each chosen after long tests and precisely tuned to the preferences of each owner. Allowing for that, I think the fact that the F5Pre stands up against the three systems it has now been compared in underlines its quality.
On further reflection, I thought maybe a comparison with a known DIYaudio standard and a solid state construction might be useful. So, later, and it has to be noted without any other sets of ears in my own room, I swapped in the Iron pre. Good and all as the Iron Pre is (and it is very capable), I felt the sound was more veiled than with the F5Pre - the precision of the soundstage was not there and it seemed less dynamic. As I listened more and more, I realised the soundstage was of the same depth as with the F5Pre, but not as wide. I guess for many people, this wouldn't make much difference but I like soundstage - I think it is part of what draws you in and gives some excitement.
Summary:
Ultimately, having compared against commercial and DIY offerings (all of a high standard), in a number of rooms, and with a number of sets of educated ears, the F5Pre really stands out as a top of the line performer.
December 2024
We had the first showing of the F5Pre yesterday at a friends place. He had two systems set up - one with SDplayer/AD1862/FC CEN IV as source, F5Pre or Conrad Johnson Premier 17LS2 as preamp, Aleph J as power amp and Spendor A9 speakers. There were 5 of us in attendance for a listen.
Second setup was more like my own - a custom linux small board computer feeding a diyinhk USB receiver, AD1862 dac with 3a5 (dht) output stage, 01a preamp, J2 as power amp (the one I built for him) and Quad 63 ELS speakers.
We listened first to the system with the CJ LS172 - which was really nice, the Spendor A9 speakers are very resolving, far more than I was expecting and it all sounded really good with the CJ preamp. Then we swapped over to the F5Pre and there was an immediate sense of deeper and tighter bass, and smoother highs. The CJ is no slouch and is a sought after preamp, so sets a high bar for any comparison.
Swapping over to the second system (really the first system as this is my friends main system), I felt there was a bigger challenge for the F5Pre as my friend really loves the 01a, and not without good reason - it has really fantastic soundstage, and pulls off a magical trick with vocals. Anyway, after some back and forth, it was clear the F5Pre was a different sound, but had tighter bass with no loss of highs. Both myself and others thought that there was more resolution with the F5Pre, but I have to acknowledge that if you love the DHT sound it is addictive, and ultimately I think if you had a free choice you would have both preamps so you could swap back and forth as you liked. Of course the F5Pre eliminates all the downsides that comes with using 90 year old valves. However, given that the F5Pre held its head up high, and is at least the equal of the best preamp that my friends have ever had it a very positive endorsement.
February 2025
A long delayed second audtion took place in another friend’s dedicated room for audio - the main system being various sources (main one used for the demo was Thorens TD124 deck with SME IV arm and Benz-micro LPS cartridge, Ayre 5x phonostage, followed by a 2P29L DHT preamp and Xen version of Pass J2 power amp. Speakers were the excellent Ruark Excaliburs. The normal sound here is beautifully detailed and full range, with a great soundstage and sense of dynamics. Although the speakers could call for many more watts than the J2 provides, it always seems more than enough to have a full and authoritative sound.
The F5Pre was added to the system instead of the 2P29L preamp - a direct swap. This 2P29L preamp is on the lesser side of the DHT sound - it keeps the great soundstage but its a cleaner and not as "warm" sounding as a 01a preamp with similar circuit.
The F5Pre was more neutral sounding than the 2P29L - and as in the previous audition, the bass tightness was noticeable. The 2P29L I think had a bigger soundstage, but the F5Pre had more precise positioning within the soundstage. The front to back depth was similar for both. The other noticeable difference was slightly increased dynamic effect from the F5Pre - but this was more noticeable on some tracks than others as you might expect.
As I look back on these 2 auditions, I realise that the main comparisons for both are with pretty high end valve preamps - each chosen after long tests and precisely tuned to the preferences of each owner. Allowing for that, I think the fact that the F5Pre stands up against the three systems it has now been compared in underlines its quality.
On further reflection, I thought maybe a comparison with a known DIYaudio standard and a solid state construction might be useful. So, later, and it has to be noted without any other sets of ears in my own room, I swapped in the Iron pre. Good and all as the Iron Pre is (and it is very capable), I felt the sound was more veiled than with the F5Pre - the precision of the soundstage was not there and it seemed less dynamic. As I listened more and more, I realised the soundstage was of the same depth as with the F5Pre, but not as wide. I guess for many people, this wouldn't make much difference but I like soundstage - I think it is part of what draws you in and gives some excitement.
Summary:
Ultimately, having compared against commercial and DIY offerings (all of a high standard), in a number of rooms, and with a number of sets of educated ears, the F5Pre really stands out as a top of the line performer.
So some are still watching.
Hopefully some of you would go ahead to try it out.
Would make a good preamp for low-gain power amps, such as F5 or J2 variants.
😊
Patrick
PS for those using the M2OPS with opamps, take a look at the Preamp for Le Monstre :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/preamp-for-hiraga-le-monstr-2024.421562/
Hopefully some of you would go ahead to try it out.
Would make a good preamp for low-gain power amps, such as F5 or J2 variants.
😊
Patrick
PS for those using the M2OPS with opamps, take a look at the Preamp for Le Monstre :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/preamp-for-hiraga-le-monstr-2024.421562/
I should probably have added a bit more information about the iron pre build. It is standard enough, from the group buy here. The Eizz pot is 50k mounted at the rear near the input jacks and the only other non-standard thing is I used my own source select board because I like 6 inputs rather than 4 as standard on the Iron pre. Good quality small signal relays from Panasonic were used for this and wire runs were kept short as possible.
Attachments
Iron Pre has 5 inputs standard.
Very cool build! Thanks for sharing the details.
Thanks for sharing information and photos. I was not familiar with Eizz, but see them on Ebay. Though heir website has english language option none of the menus work (404).
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/noquipas-a-truely-dual-mono-fully-differential-passive-preamp-with-output-buffers.384796/post-6985480
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/noquipas-a-truely-dual-mono-fully-differential-passive-preamp-with-output-buffers.384796/post-7064891
www.audiophonics.fr/en/composants-electronique-potentiometre-commute/eizz-stereo-audio-attenuator-24-steps-100k-log-p-9884.html
Patrick
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/noquipas-a-truely-dual-mono-fully-differential-passive-preamp-with-output-buffers.384796/post-7064891
www.audiophonics.fr/en/composants-electronique-potentiometre-commute/eizz-stereo-audio-attenuator-24-steps-100k-log-p-9884.html
Patrick
Yup, the boards arrived some time ago. I started slowly populating the preamp boards...
Attachments
I was looking at the JC-2 thread, and bumped into this :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/variation-on-the-jc-2-preamplifier.120243/post-4803059
Reminds me of my balanced version of the F5Pre 2024.
If we take the trouble to use a JFET quad at the input stage, seems a waste not to go fully balanced.
😊
Patrick
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/variation-on-the-jc-2-preamplifier.120243/post-4803059
Reminds me of my balanced version of the F5Pre 2024.
If we take the trouble to use a JFET quad at the input stage, seems a waste not to go fully balanced.
😊
Patrick
Attachments
What is the above good for ?
Ideal as a balanced preamp for the NCore NC250MP, in the same BZ3207 case :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/class-d-amp-photo-gallery.87913/post-7908859
😊
Patrick
Ideal as a balanced preamp for the NCore NC250MP, in the same BZ3207 case :
www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/class-d-amp-photo-gallery.87913/post-7908859
😊
Patrick
Attachments
Beginner question time I'm afraid....Q1 Q2 are the input buffer, and Q3 and Q4 are the VAS? (Along with associated other components)!
@EUVL @woodturner-fran Could you please share you sound quality experiences with these different volume regulators? Muses 72320, W-One, Relaixed and EIZZ? I am looking for volume controller for tube amp input that do not kill sound quality, music flow and do not manipulate sound frequencies. Something that is totally transparent. 🙂
We don't use Muses.
W-ONE and Relaxed are essentially the same.
It depends on what relays and resistors you use.
And also how you connect the relays to the controller.
EIZZ is a manual pot, standard comes with carbon resistors.
You will not hear from me subjective impressions.
Everyone has a different one.
The best volume control one can use, technically, is two-resistor L-pad type using rotary switches with self cleaning silver contacts.
It does have its price.
Patrick
W-ONE and Relaxed are essentially the same.
It depends on what relays and resistors you use.
And also how you connect the relays to the controller.
EIZZ is a manual pot, standard comes with carbon resistors.
You will not hear from me subjective impressions.
Everyone has a different one.
The best volume control one can use, technically, is two-resistor L-pad type using rotary switches with self cleaning silver contacts.
It does have its price.
Patrick