Hi again NW'
I was wondering, have you had any experience w/10 inch car subs? The reason I ask is... I'd like to weigh the 'presumed' differences between 10s' and 18s' but have never used 18s in a car audio application. I do however, have two "18Sound" Pro-audio 18" drivers in W-bins, and 8 ten inch Electro-Voice midbass drivers in BR cabinets; but those are for my 'on-stage' rig and do exhibit very different characteristics. Since we spoke last (here on this thread), I've been wondering what might change if I were using 18s' instead of 10s'; always dreaming up better ways of doing stuff.
I believe one 18 is equivalent to about 4 tens in SD, but the 18 will prove superior wrt efficiency. I can also get 2 18s' a lot cheaper than I can 8 10s', or in my case, 4 more tens; as I already have 4 10 inch JL w6's ($335 bucks a pop, plus $20 for each interlocking grill). The JL tens need only 0.625 cuft internal vol ea., so I've got four in a sealed 3.2👎 cuft 'polyfill' environment. I think most 18" subs will need a min of 3 to 3.5 cuft net inter vol. I may be able to squeeze 5 cuft behind the 2'nd row seat of my suv IF... the dimensions are proportioned correctly. I'm very curious to hear your P.O.V.! PS: I assume you haven't found an app to link your ipad/car stereo??
Greg (rigtec), cheers
I was wondering, have you had any experience w/10 inch car subs? The reason I ask is... I'd like to weigh the 'presumed' differences between 10s' and 18s' but have never used 18s in a car audio application. I do however, have two "18Sound" Pro-audio 18" drivers in W-bins, and 8 ten inch Electro-Voice midbass drivers in BR cabinets; but those are for my 'on-stage' rig and do exhibit very different characteristics. Since we spoke last (here on this thread), I've been wondering what might change if I were using 18s' instead of 10s'; always dreaming up better ways of doing stuff.
I believe one 18 is equivalent to about 4 tens in SD, but the 18 will prove superior wrt efficiency. I can also get 2 18s' a lot cheaper than I can 8 10s', or in my case, 4 more tens; as I already have 4 10 inch JL w6's ($335 bucks a pop, plus $20 for each interlocking grill). The JL tens need only 0.625 cuft internal vol ea., so I've got four in a sealed 3.2👎 cuft 'polyfill' environment. I think most 18" subs will need a min of 3 to 3.5 cuft net inter vol. I may be able to squeeze 5 cuft behind the 2'nd row seat of my suv IF... the dimensions are proportioned correctly. I'm very curious to hear your P.O.V.! PS: I assume you haven't found an app to link your ipad/car stereo??
Greg (rigtec), cheers
There is a WoW factor with 18s. There is also efficiency. If you built two boxes similarly modeled, one with 4 tens and one with 1 18. I don't think you would be able to them apart given you power them properly. Back in the day the bigger the speaker the deeper the response but now its just not so. 10s can and do respond just as deep as 18s. I have a Sunfire True Sub in my home theater and it hits deeper notes than my last 18" subwoofer could. I do STILL believe that a properly tuned and powered 18" sub can hit the lower notes 'easier' than smaller woofers. Basically bigger is better is what I believe but not by the far margins it used to be.
Very well explained!
So what I gather from what you've said is, just swapping the 4 ten (sealed) box for the 1 eighteen (sealed) box, There may be some subtle differences in their character, but may or may not be worth the trouble or expense.
You know, it's funny. No matter how much power or displacement you've got, you're sure to soon outgrow it; very expensive addiction (as they all are)! I may investigate the possibility of having two 18s in the truck... not much space left back there anyway. This would be a good project to start this summer, and besides...
So what I gather from what you've said is, just swapping the 4 ten (sealed) box for the 1 eighteen (sealed) box, There may be some subtle differences in their character, but may or may not be worth the trouble or expense.
You know, it's funny. No matter how much power or displacement you've got, you're sure to soon outgrow it; very expensive addiction (as they all are)! I may investigate the possibility of having two 18s in the truck... not much space left back there anyway. This would be a good project to start this summer, and besides...
I also employ an AudioControl Epicenter. This piece of work makes using 18s worth the extra effort/air space. It takes full advantage of the speakers ability to MOVE AIR and nothing moves air like the big boys. It is an 'over the top' piece that some folks will even call gimmicky but I'll take and enjoy that lower octave of bass it adds to the music. Another thing is I do like to use tuned ported enclosures. The fact that my systems always have an Epicenter installed in them may have more to do with my love for 18s then anything else does. This combo makes the undressing much more likely. It is MUCH more fun than it is musical but there are often times when it does have a very nice effect musically as well. Of course it is fully adjustable and non existant when you don't want to hear it, controlled via its own remote volume knob.
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I'm sorry, I don't know what's gotten into me lately 🙁 ..."...This combo makes the undressing much more likely..."YEAH BABY!
The more I hear from you, the more intrigued I become wrt 18" car subs. As I mentioned earlier, I already have two 18Sound LW1400s' that are in W-bins, unused and being stored. It would be nice to use at least one of them in the truck. I'm not sure what happened but when I modeled them in a 4 cuft sealed environment using winISD, the program placed my f3 @ 153hz. I tried modeling several popular 18s, including RCF, JBL, Precision Devices and, the CV Stroker, but all of my results were very similar. Perhaps it is because they all have very similar tsp and a 'marginally low' Qts that wouldn't suit a sealed box?
PS: If anyone has a little time and wouldn't mind checking this driver's f3 in a sealed 3.5 to 5 cuft enclosure I would really appreciate it, here are the parameters:
Driver: EighteenSound
M) 18LW1400
Fs 31hz
Pe 700
Spl 98
Re 5 ohms
Le 2.3
Qms 7.2
Qes 0.31
Qts .29
Vas 10.49 cuft
BL 24.7
X-max 9.0
Sd 0.1225 m2
Thanks so much!
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That driver is NOT for a small sealed enclosure. Look at your response curve in a 9 ft³ ported box tuned to 33hz.
Yeah... kinda thought that's what the trouble was! But 153hz?! My cheap a## 6.5 inch front door speakers will go lower than that! Well, there goes my two free 18s; already paid for.
Thanks Wendy!
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Well at 4.5 ft³ sealed I'm showing an F3 of 81hz and and an F10 of 37hz. Thats a lot better than 153hz but no where near good enough to not port the enclosure.
These drivers want big ported boxes.
These drivers want big ported boxes.
The 4 ten that I'm using now was originally purchased as a "driver specific" ported 2 ten. The ducts are 22 inches long, tuned to 40hz, and the box was designed to be used w/JL Audio w6 drivers. It was ungodly loud/efficient but was lacking PUNCH and impact.
So I sealed it up and stuffed it. Well it gained an enormous amount of punch but, as you can guess, lost an audible ton of spl; on the order of at least 6db.
That's when I got the idea to cut two more holes in the top of the box and install two more w6s. The box size/net vol. increases when you seal the mouth of the ducts (not fill them), so I knew I would get away w/the addition of two more drivers. I modeled it with 4 tens and it ran a 41hz f3, so I ordered the drivers and put them in. This way I gained 3db from added surface area, and another 3db from dropping the impedance, so I'm back where I started. It's most likely down to around 30hz with the filters that I'm using, and super clean.
"It kills, I just want more".
So I sealed it up and stuffed it. Well it gained an enormous amount of punch but, as you can guess, lost an audible ton of spl; on the order of at least 6db.
That's when I got the idea to cut two more holes in the top of the box and install two more w6s. The box size/net vol. increases when you seal the mouth of the ducts (not fill them), so I knew I would get away w/the addition of two more drivers. I modeled it with 4 tens and it ran a 41hz f3, so I ordered the drivers and put them in. This way I gained 3db from added surface area, and another 3db from dropping the impedance, so I'm back where I started. It's most likely down to around 30hz with the filters that I'm using, and super clean.
"It kills, I just want more".
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