The Breve Turntable
I've decided to start a thread on building a turntable from the beginning, hopefully it will inspire people to build their own decks from scratch. I have been very lucky and have found a friend who was willing to waterjet cut the slate and metal for free. As a result of that, this has not been a quick build... also this is about my 8th deck I have built from scratch and they are always Garrard or Lenco Idler Drives.
I should point out that I am also posting this thread in Lenco Heaven and in the NZ forum, DarkLantern.
Lencoheaven: https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=26441.0
Darklantern: The Breve Turntable | D a r k L a n t e r n
Preliminary Musings!
It’s been 5 or more years since I constructed a Lenco Deck. I’ve been fairly happy with my last effort from a sonic perspective, however from a visual perspective I hate it!
So we come to the Breve turntable, but before I start in on the heavy stuff, I suggest you go to the bottom of this post and queue up the Spotify link to listen to as you read… you do have Spotify?
Right, now you’ve queued up the music, turn up the volume! Why Breve?
A musical double whole note, represented by an hollow oval note head with one or two vertical lines. As it is considered a very long note, in modern terms, it is rarely used.
So because of its, rarity, symbolism, and shape I have selected the name and the symbol to represent my turntable.
At this point I want to outline what I want for my turntable.
Requirements Specification
A multi-layered, slate motor plinth, utilising a vaguely ovoid shape. There will be 4 layers of slate, bonded with epoxy resin, and through bolts mounted on a heavily modified PTP4 top and base plate. No bolt should be visible on the top plate, however for ease of construction and maintenance allow nuts on the base plate.
No slate layer should be visible, primarily because of variations in colour and the fact the epoxy resin will also be visible.
The Platter will be Dave Whittaker’s Aura Turntable platter, with substructure to allow the Idler wheel to turn the platter. The Aura platter as can be seen from the photo below is very deep. It's the deep black platter with the belts attached.
A completely separate multi-layered slate tonearm plinth utilising a vaguely kidney-shaped shape. There will be a number of layers of slate, bonded with epoxy resin and through bolts.
There should be 2 tonearm plinths.
1) To mount any Rega type arm in Pete Riggle’s VTAF, but particularly my Origin Live Illustrious arm.
2) To mount a Transfi Terminator arm in its own plinth.
No bolt should be visible on the top plate, however for ease of construction and maintenance allow nuts on the base plate.
No slate layer should be visible, primarily because of variations in colour and the fact the epoxy resin will also be visible.
Either tonearm plinth should be able to be dropped into place with the minimum of set up next to the motor plinth. To aid in that I have the good Doctor Feickert's Protractor.
As the tonearm plinths are separate from the motor plinth it is a key requirement that the placement of the mounting holes in the plinth are within tolerance for best position for the required arm.
I have not included any pictures of the design here, however my next post should detail the design considerations and other features in more depth.
Happy listening!
Spotify link: The Ecstasy of Gold, The Ecstasy of Gold, Ennio Morricone
Spotify Web Player - The Ecstasy of Gold (From "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly") - Ennio Morricone
I've decided to start a thread on building a turntable from the beginning, hopefully it will inspire people to build their own decks from scratch. I have been very lucky and have found a friend who was willing to waterjet cut the slate and metal for free. As a result of that, this has not been a quick build... also this is about my 8th deck I have built from scratch and they are always Garrard or Lenco Idler Drives.
I should point out that I am also posting this thread in Lenco Heaven and in the NZ forum, DarkLantern.
Lencoheaven: https://www.lencoheaven.net/forum/index.php?topic=26441.0
Darklantern: The Breve Turntable | D a r k L a n t e r n
Preliminary Musings!
It’s been 5 or more years since I constructed a Lenco Deck. I’ve been fairly happy with my last effort from a sonic perspective, however from a visual perspective I hate it!
So we come to the Breve turntable, but before I start in on the heavy stuff, I suggest you go to the bottom of this post and queue up the Spotify link to listen to as you read… you do have Spotify?
Right, now you’ve queued up the music, turn up the volume! Why Breve?
A musical double whole note, represented by an hollow oval note head with one or two vertical lines. As it is considered a very long note, in modern terms, it is rarely used.
So because of its, rarity, symbolism, and shape I have selected the name and the symbol to represent my turntable.
At this point I want to outline what I want for my turntable.
Requirements Specification
A multi-layered, slate motor plinth, utilising a vaguely ovoid shape. There will be 4 layers of slate, bonded with epoxy resin, and through bolts mounted on a heavily modified PTP4 top and base plate. No bolt should be visible on the top plate, however for ease of construction and maintenance allow nuts on the base plate.
No slate layer should be visible, primarily because of variations in colour and the fact the epoxy resin will also be visible.
The Platter will be Dave Whittaker’s Aura Turntable platter, with substructure to allow the Idler wheel to turn the platter. The Aura platter as can be seen from the photo below is very deep. It's the deep black platter with the belts attached.
A completely separate multi-layered slate tonearm plinth utilising a vaguely kidney-shaped shape. There will be a number of layers of slate, bonded with epoxy resin and through bolts.
There should be 2 tonearm plinths.
1) To mount any Rega type arm in Pete Riggle’s VTAF, but particularly my Origin Live Illustrious arm.
2) To mount a Transfi Terminator arm in its own plinth.
No bolt should be visible on the top plate, however for ease of construction and maintenance allow nuts on the base plate.
No slate layer should be visible, primarily because of variations in colour and the fact the epoxy resin will also be visible.
Either tonearm plinth should be able to be dropped into place with the minimum of set up next to the motor plinth. To aid in that I have the good Doctor Feickert's Protractor.
As the tonearm plinths are separate from the motor plinth it is a key requirement that the placement of the mounting holes in the plinth are within tolerance for best position for the required arm.
I have not included any pictures of the design here, however my next post should detail the design considerations and other features in more depth.
Happy listening!
Spotify link: The Ecstasy of Gold, The Ecstasy of Gold, Ennio Morricone
Spotify Web Player - The Ecstasy of Gold (From "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly") - Ennio Morricone
Design Considerations
In a previous attempt, the first of many attempts at this concept, I had this idea for what I wanted.
However the reality is that there are many problems and issues with the vision. Over the years I tried a variety of actual proof of concepts, most of them I junked as being too impractical, not fulfilling the needs, or some other reason... here is one PoC, this one looking at tonearm plinth size and shape.
At the end of 5 years of dreaming, conceptualizing and imagining I realised that my original concept was good, but would have to be adjusted to fit the practical considerations of cutting slate and steel along with the physical limitations of the original design with it's projecting motor mount, bearing and so on.
Music for this post:
Do It ('Til You're Satisfied), Do It ('Til You're Satisfied), B. T. Express
Spotify Web Player - Do It ('Til You're Satisfied) - B.T. Express
In a previous attempt, the first of many attempts at this concept, I had this idea for what I wanted.
However the reality is that there are many problems and issues with the vision. Over the years I tried a variety of actual proof of concepts, most of them I junked as being too impractical, not fulfilling the needs, or some other reason... here is one PoC, this one looking at tonearm plinth size and shape.
At the end of 5 years of dreaming, conceptualizing and imagining I realised that my original concept was good, but would have to be adjusted to fit the practical considerations of cutting slate and steel along with the physical limitations of the original design with it's projecting motor mount, bearing and so on.
Music for this post:
Do It ('Til You're Satisfied), Do It ('Til You're Satisfied), B. T. Express
Spotify Web Player - Do It ('Til You're Satisfied) - B.T. Express
Well, after 5 years, the final shape is decided....
and the mounting board is pretty standard, apart from the fact that I have eliminated one of the mounting holes - I want to fit the rod blind so that it does not show on the top surface.
Music for this post:
I heard it through the Grapevine, Creedance Clearwater Revival, Best of Creedance Clearwater Revival
Spotify Web Player - I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Single Version - Creedence Clearwater Revival
and the mounting board is pretty standard, apart from the fact that I have eliminated one of the mounting holes - I want to fit the rod blind so that it does not show on the top surface.
Music for this post:
I heard it through the Grapevine, Creedance Clearwater Revival, Best of Creedance Clearwater Revival
Spotify Web Player - I Heard It Through The Grapevine - Single Version - Creedence Clearwater Revival
Now to the Tone Arm Plinths.
There are two. One for Rega type arms to accommodate my Origin Live Illustrious arm and one for my Trans-Fi Terminator.
Each has slightly different requirements in terms of mounting however the overall shape will be the same for both arms. Of course I must not forget the requirement that no bolts be seen on the top plate. To accommodate that I have drilled some approximately M3 holes, which I'll tap out to M4, insert the rod and then TIG weld and flatten so we can't see the rods.
I got these home, and really should buff the edges down flat, however I think I'll do that another day. The picture also has a couple of test pieces I did out of wood to ensure I got a good feel for what I intend.
Music for this post:
Honky Tonk Heroes (Like Me), Greatest Hits, Waylon Jennings
Spotify Web Player - Honky Tonk Heroes (Like Me) - Waylon Jennings
There are two. One for Rega type arms to accommodate my Origin Live Illustrious arm and one for my Trans-Fi Terminator.
Each has slightly different requirements in terms of mounting however the overall shape will be the same for both arms. Of course I must not forget the requirement that no bolts be seen on the top plate. To accommodate that I have drilled some approximately M3 holes, which I'll tap out to M4, insert the rod and then TIG weld and flatten so we can't see the rods.
I got these home, and really should buff the edges down flat, however I think I'll do that another day. The picture also has a couple of test pieces I did out of wood to ensure I got a good feel for what I intend.
Music for this post:
Honky Tonk Heroes (Like Me), Greatest Hits, Waylon Jennings
Spotify Web Player - Honky Tonk Heroes (Like Me) - Waylon Jennings
I've been involved with deburring the metal cuts and cleaning that up... messy and time consuming. I'l need to finish the edges with fine emery paper or cloth in preparation for later...
However I managed to get a test cut of the Slate on the water jet and had a bit of an interesting occurrence! We did a test cut to make sure that we had the correct cutting speed as too slow is fine if boring, however too fast can lead to trouble. The speed was perfectly acceptable, however the test cut was close to the edge and the slate spalled throwing off bits...
The mitigation is simple, as long as I have 2 pieces that are perfect I can work around any spalling that occurs! The intention being to put some sort of coating over the slate layers to hide the fact it is a multi-layer thing.
We then had time to do 1 more cut piece. This piece is for the Origin Live Illustrious Arm. The arm will be slotted into a Pete Riggle VTAF and the leads will drop through the plinth (all 5 layers of it) and come out the bottom. This cut worked fine, although I'll need to work on the bolt holes a bit!
Music for this post
Crying, Waiting, Hoping; The Very Best of Buddy Holly; Buddy Holly
Spotify Web Player - Crying, Waiting, Hoping - Overdubbed Version - Buddy Holly
However I managed to get a test cut of the Slate on the water jet and had a bit of an interesting occurrence! We did a test cut to make sure that we had the correct cutting speed as too slow is fine if boring, however too fast can lead to trouble. The speed was perfectly acceptable, however the test cut was close to the edge and the slate spalled throwing off bits...
The mitigation is simple, as long as I have 2 pieces that are perfect I can work around any spalling that occurs! The intention being to put some sort of coating over the slate layers to hide the fact it is a multi-layer thing.
We then had time to do 1 more cut piece. This piece is for the Origin Live Illustrious Arm. The arm will be slotted into a Pete Riggle VTAF and the leads will drop through the plinth (all 5 layers of it) and come out the bottom. This cut worked fine, although I'll need to work on the bolt holes a bit!
Music for this post
Crying, Waiting, Hoping; The Very Best of Buddy Holly; Buddy Holly
Spotify Web Player - Crying, Waiting, Hoping - Overdubbed Version - Buddy Holly
Progress! :grin: The Waterjet broke it's cutting tip and I've been waiting for a new cutting tip to be installed and we managed to cut the Origin Live plinth!
We had some minor cut damage caused by the bits falling over slightly because of dodgy support under the cutting jet. Again not an issue as it won't be seen.
Music for this Post
The first cut is the Deepest, New Masters, Cat Stevens
Spotify Web Player - The First Cut Is The Deepest - Yusuf / Cat Stevens
We had some minor cut damage caused by the bits falling over slightly because of dodgy support under the cutting jet. Again not an issue as it won't be seen.
Music for this Post
The first cut is the Deepest, New Masters, Cat Stevens
Spotify Web Player - The First Cut Is The Deepest - Yusuf / Cat Stevens
Well, I got back in action with more cutting. I've completed the slate for the Origin Live Plinth and have a base plate for it.
Pete Riggle of VTAF fame has sent me a new part for his VTAF which accommodates my Origin Live Illustrious Tonearm and it's enlarged rest support. This part also has mounting bolts in different locations which means I will have to recut the top plate. Phew- I'll need to drill and tap some mounting holes not recut.
Anyway I've now started on the Terminator pod, here's a pic of the jet in action
I need 4 layers with this 32mm hole, 3 layers with a 10mm hole (to accommodate the mounting bolt) and a base and top plate. The Base and top plates have been cut, as have the 4 layers with the 32mm hole.
By the way I want the large hole so I can get a tube spanner in to tighten the mounting bolt.
Next week I will complete this Terminator pod and will then move on to to doing the motor/turntable area.
Music for this post:
That's The Way (I Like It), KC & The Sunshine Band, The Best of KC and The Sunshine Band
Spotify Web Player - That's The Way (I Like It) - KC & The Sunshine Band
Pete Riggle of VTAF fame has sent me a new part for his VTAF which accommodates my Origin Live Illustrious Tonearm and it's enlarged rest support. This part also has mounting bolts in different locations which means I will have to recut the top plate. Phew- I'll need to drill and tap some mounting holes not recut.
Anyway I've now started on the Terminator pod, here's a pic of the jet in action
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I need 4 layers with this 32mm hole, 3 layers with a 10mm hole (to accommodate the mounting bolt) and a base and top plate. The Base and top plates have been cut, as have the 4 layers with the 32mm hole.
By the way I want the large hole so I can get a tube spanner in to tighten the mounting bolt.
Next week I will complete this Terminator pod and will then move on to to doing the motor/turntable area.
Music for this post:
That's The Way (I Like It), KC & The Sunshine Band, The Best of KC and The Sunshine Band
Spotify Web Player - That's The Way (I Like It) - KC & The Sunshine Band
The two tone arm pods are now cut. The first is for my Origin Illustrious arm, 5 layers of slate and a top and bottom plate of stainless steel.I am going to mount the arm on Pete Riggle's VTAF set up so the main hole is 32mm in diameter and the VTAF fits perfectly. The tone arm wires go all the way through the slate.
The other pod is for the Terminator arm. 7 layers of slate and a top and bottom plate of stainless steel. The top plate has a 10mm diameter hole, to allow the arm to be mounted, however the base and bottom 4 layers of slate have a 32mm hole so I can put a tube spanner in and tightly mount the arm to the pod.
Lots of work still to go on these, including blind mounting the rods that hold everything together and of course the feet....
Music for this post:
The Windows of Your Mind; Sinne EEg; The Beauty of Sadness
Spotify Web Player - The Windmills of Your Mind - Sinne Eeg
The other pod is for the Terminator arm. 7 layers of slate and a top and bottom plate of stainless steel. The top plate has a 10mm diameter hole, to allow the arm to be mounted, however the base and bottom 4 layers of slate have a 32mm hole so I can put a tube spanner in and tightly mount the arm to the pod.
Lots of work still to go on these, including blind mounting the rods that hold everything together and of course the feet....
Music for this post:
The Windows of Your Mind; Sinne EEg; The Beauty of Sadness
Spotify Web Player - The Windmills of Your Mind - Sinne Eeg
My new bearing has arrived! Courtesy of Sien - thank you ever so much! Sien is a trader on Lenco heaven who produces these astonishing bearings and by all accounts they are brilliant. However for my purposes, and more importantly they are cheap!!!
Test fitting meant I had to apply a file to widen the mounting hole in the top plate a bit... well, a lot!! I got there.
It will be a couple of months or so before I will see it in action, but I am pleased with the arrival of an important bit...
Music for this post:
Sharp Dressed Man; ZZ Top; ZZ TOP - Greatest Hits
Spotify Web Player - Sharp Dressed Man - ZZ Top
Test fitting meant I had to apply a file to widen the mounting hole in the top plate a bit... well, a lot!! I got there.
It will be a couple of months or so before I will see it in action, but I am pleased with the arrival of an important bit...
Music for this post:
Sharp Dressed Man; ZZ Top; ZZ TOP - Greatest Hits
Spotify Web Player - Sharp Dressed Man - ZZ Top
Much excitement! Main plinth has now been cut - all 4 layers. Motor mount and top plate fit beautifully.
SO that completes all the Water jet cutting!
Music for this post:
Thunderstruck, 2Cellos, Celloverse
Spotify Web Player - Thunderstruck - 2Cellos
SO that completes all the Water jet cutting!
Music for this post:
Thunderstruck, 2Cellos, Celloverse
Spotify Web Player - Thunderstruck - 2Cellos
With Owen Young (NZ local) having built a Terminator Mount block as per this thread:
Terminator arm-mount | D a r k L a n t e r n
I'm exploring whether to mount the arm using the arm-block. Owen has been very patient and extremely helpful, by the way! So a definite "Chapeau" moment for all his help!
In exploring I took this shot with the Aura platter in place. Very definitely a mock-up of the final build, however I'm pleased my calculations where about right for the Terminator arm and that 6 layers of slate was correct.
Music for this post:
Run to You, PTX Vol 2, Pentatonix
Spotify Web Player - Run to You - Pentatonix
Terminator arm-mount | D a r k L a n t e r n
I'm exploring whether to mount the arm using the arm-block. Owen has been very patient and extremely helpful, by the way! So a definite "Chapeau" moment for all his help!
In exploring I took this shot with the Aura platter in place. Very definitely a mock-up of the final build, however I'm pleased my calculations where about right for the Terminator arm and that 6 layers of slate was correct.
Music for this post:
Run to You, PTX Vol 2, Pentatonix
Spotify Web Player - Run to You - Pentatonix
Christmas Present time!
Some time ago, as in October, I came to a deal with Todd of Amcan Audio for 10 of his feet. Some were seconds so I got a reduction in price! Anyway, at the time he was undergoing back surgery (distractions) and due to a mix up, his first delivery was refused by NZ Customs and returned to him. He duly sent it again and along with it a stylus cleaner as an apology! It's finally arrived!
I would like to say that Todd owned all the issues, apologized handsomely and came through for his customer!!! Totally awesome.
The feet have levellers built in and are just handsome!
A march for the music, of course!
Elgar; Pomp & Circumstance March #4; New Zealand Symphony Orchestra
Spotify Web Player - 5 Military Marches, Op. 39, "Pomp and Circumstance": No. 4 in G Major - Edward Elgar
Some time ago, as in October, I came to a deal with Todd of Amcan Audio for 10 of his feet. Some were seconds so I got a reduction in price! Anyway, at the time he was undergoing back surgery (distractions) and due to a mix up, his first delivery was refused by NZ Customs and returned to him. He duly sent it again and along with it a stylus cleaner as an apology! It's finally arrived!
I would like to say that Todd owned all the issues, apologized handsomely and came through for his customer!!! Totally awesome.
The feet have levellers built in and are just handsome!
A march for the music, of course!
Elgar; Pomp & Circumstance March #4; New Zealand Symphony Orchestra
Spotify Web Player - 5 Military Marches, Op. 39, "Pomp and Circumstance": No. 4 in G Major - Edward Elgar
That brings me up to date, I'm waiting on a few things, of which the most important is the Terminator Mount Block from Owen. He is constructing a reduced height version of his original 45mm block which will fit perfectly, and more importantly give me a little bit of VTA play.
New Terminator mount!
Owen Young has come through with a cut-down Terminator mount. Awesome!
Music for this post:
Container Drivers; Grotesque (After the Gramme); The Fall
Spotify Web Player - The Container Drivers - The Fall
Owen Young has come through with a cut-down Terminator mount. Awesome!
Music for this post:
Container Drivers; Grotesque (After the Gramme); The Fall
Spotify Web Player - The Container Drivers - The Fall
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