Just some honest advice to keep a discussion running in a proper way.
I don't want to disturb your dream that you think to be some sort of whiz kid, see #120, and may be you are.
But it would be of great help if you would try to express yourself in a short and compact way that almost everybody can follow.
In most of your text I can only guess what you mean because you are turning in circles around what you really want to say without coming to the point.
And in many cases a picture tells more than a thousand words, so use this where possible.
And one last thing, instead of telling others what to do, show somewhat more initiative from yourself and ask for help where you get stuck.
Hans
P.S. a sin(x).cos👍 never occurs in music, so why use such an artificial signal when investigating sound processing ?
Of course, sorry, ignore me, I don't know what he means then 🙂 It could just be that, ie the wording
It was my misunderstanding, sorry for the confusion.
By marking 20kHz at the right screenshots, you meant to refer to the cutoff frequency of the brickwall filter, while I thought you were referring to the signal’s frequency.
George
At a glance, it's not double sideband suppressed carrier, (DSBSC) surely, it's single sideband with carrier. Upper sideband filtered out.
If it was radio you'd then remove the carrier for what is referred to as ssb but is actually ssbsc...
If it was radio you'd then remove the carrier for what is referred to as ssb but is actually ssbsc...
An iPad, and it drives me nuts withe auto-garbage. Sorry Han(s). I can't get it to stop doing that auto.
Jn
I did mean email link. Your initial blurb seemed reasonable, but others here are saying the paper is just glossy with little substance, so I suspect correspondence with her might be not so useful.
Jn
First, as an analytical tool, it is clean. Trying to use an actual cymbal strike as an an analytical tool is useless for anything other than "something changed.
Second, the analytical derivation of a cymbal strike is truly horrible. To assume there is no simple modulation of this type or any other requires information I am confident nobody has.
Third, why do you suspect a raised sine is any better or occurs in music where the simple sincos doesn't.
And sorry about the spelling of your name, this device will not allow me to spell your name properly. There is never a grandchild around when you need one.
Scott, I am happy you also mistook the discussion as supressed carrier, I feel like I'm in good company.
Bring your friend the 20/4 into filter out 18/2 verbage, see what he says. Use raised sine even, let him chomp on the discussion, I assume he can work the analytical so can easily explain why Han(s) outputs have a different frequency.
The other question, is the derivation of LSB modulation identical to that of full modulation followed by simple low pass filtering of the upper? I suspect not, but ask.
Alas, my friend at work who did this trivially moved to another lab. I'm left pinging ideas online, where in general, casual dismissal is the norm.
Edit: the reason I've been talking about exponential modulation is exactly because it is far closer to an actual percussive music signal, and can be used as a probe of the filter system.
And, I reject the word whiz kid. The intent was to explain the enviro I work in.
Jn
Last edited:
I am seeing a heck of a lot of misunderstanding of what I've been saying. The biggest problem I see is that I have to save posts almost every two or three sentences, and many responses occur before I can finish the post.
I apologize for that, but it is not under my control.
Jn
I apologize for that, but it is not under my control.
Jn
Actually, yes.
One only need work in an environment where ideas are not casually dismissed to understand.
Jn
Ah, casually dismissing my statement I see..😉
Casual dismissal takes many forms. For example, I mentioned overlaying the 20/4 filter time output with the input to show exactly the change in frequency and envelope. But two FFT's were provided instead. Casual dismissal.
I mention overlaying the filtered output of a 20/4 sincos with the unfiltered 18/2 sincos modulation, and again, FFT's. Casual dismissal.
Trust me, if I could derive the analytical equations, I would have. I have to lean on others (perhaps ones here) for that kind if analysis.
And, Hans was correct, using 20 msec long bursts in itself is not representative of music, it is still a diagnostic, or metric. ( and I have no clue why his name came out correctly this time)
Jn
Last edited:
I need to put a "not finished composing emoticon" in every save.
Perhaps I should instead say the old "look it's a squirrel" thing?
Jn
Jn, surely there is some sort of text editor app on the ipad (I don't use them, i can't stand IOS)... compose your post in that, then copy and paste into the editor here. I'm assuming you can copy and paste on an Ipad (though I would probably have to read a manual to work out how to 😉 )
Tony.
Tony.
I do not know how to copy and paste on an iPad either, I absolutely hate IOS as well. Is there a manual that normal humans can understand???
Jn
Type out your response, double tap, make sure it’s all in the ‘copy’ margins, select copy......open a new tab for diyaudio (or keep a second open) go to the end of the thread, open a new response, double tap, paste.
Just tried it and it worked......you must have your second tab open for diya first though.
Just tried it and it worked......you must have your second tab open for diya first though.
I am shocked and dismayed that nobody else corrected that error...
Shocked, i tell ya....shocked..😱
Seriously though, that certainly got past me, I realized it in the car..
Every instrument on the planet that is capable of producing two same level tones simultaneously creates a signal that mathematically is indistinguishable between the sum of sin(a) + sin(b) and the product sin((a+b)/2)*cos((a-b)/2).
So, actually, it occurs in practically all musical content ever made.
The real question is, do the numbers take the USB above the Fs of the filter?
I honestly think (off the cuff as it were) that upping Fs to double our hearing range, 40k, would completely eliminate any possibility of modulation "splash as it were", as I suspect the sidebands (at least for two audible simultaneous frequencies) can never exceed 40k.
That is why I initally requested Scott take the difference between in and out. That method is by far the strongest and easiest way to determine if the musical content does that.
jn
Most stories have more than one aspect ratios.
I showed you not only the 20/4 but also 5 others, their filtered versions plus the difference to each other. If you want an overlay, why not doing that yourself.
That's precisely what I mean when I told that you should display more initiative of your own. You had everything prepared and offered on a plate.
Don't however mention their change in frequency as some prove, that's something that can't be concluded from a time domain signal and seems to be some idee fixe from your side.
Because your mostly inaccurate indication what you are looking for, like midband suppresion, "If you were to run with continuous modulation, you will see that subsequent lobes will flip phase, and that an FFT will not show the within lobe frequency, but only the two sidebands.", that's why I showed you an FFT where the midband was still there etc, etc, misinterpretation after misinterpretation because of the way you express yourself.
So instead of accusing others of "casual dismissal", how dare you after all support that has been given, blame yourself for your bad communication capabilities and try to improve.
Hans