Be nice if someone could develop a spit test for this. ‘Spit in the jar wait 10 minutes, if it goes purple you have it’ kind of thing.
The immunology/virology guys will be laughing at my naïveté. . .
The immunology/virology guys will be laughing at my naïveté. . .
There is an awful lot of research going into that sort of test for everything. But its erm, a while out.
For example in Germany a blood antibodies test is available for this virus that is fast but was reported having a false positive rate of up to 70% (not my field of expertise aside the statistics) but I don't know about the sensitivity, so it depends on the question you want to examine.
In your question about the blood samples it would mean (assumed that the low specifity number is correct) that you had to design an experiment with a numer of tests run on each blood sample, as no additional data like prevalence (the number that you are just trying to find out) are available.
DPH and seantkezm surely know a lot more about the specific numbers for these tests.......
Good to see that as well NicMac. Better people to be schocked, fastness to react is still low ...too slow in too much countries yet. Street markets where people are too close ans so on.
Good your doctors have masks on the pictures... masks and protection suits is lacking everywhere for medical staffs and cities doctors mostly. China is helping several country as they did for Italy with such goods. But it is missing worldwide halas.
Sweden cause of the low hospital beds rate decided to let it run gambling on imunity spread. Netherland is a problem still, too much people footing in EU everywhere. People needs such everyday alert as you do cause one part of the brain don't want to see it cause too much difficult to see it. No good methods, but imagine a world without press, news rooms... My fear is people don't be serious enough to social and physical distanciation for the 5 to 6 weeks needed... so good as you do to repeat, I try in some street shops around me to correct when I see shops not mannaging it inside the walls and not make space when the people wait outside. People want to collaborate but have pain to focus on the basics they were asked. I'm going to print your link to show the little shops around me when food is needed...some people are still selfich.
coraggio, prenditi cura della famiglia. Grazie per averci avisato.
Good your doctors have masks on the pictures... masks and protection suits is lacking everywhere for medical staffs and cities doctors mostly. China is helping several country as they did for Italy with such goods. But it is missing worldwide halas.
Sweden cause of the low hospital beds rate decided to let it run gambling on imunity spread. Netherland is a problem still, too much people footing in EU everywhere. People needs such everyday alert as you do cause one part of the brain don't want to see it cause too much difficult to see it. No good methods, but imagine a world without press, news rooms... My fear is people don't be serious enough to social and physical distanciation for the 5 to 6 weeks needed... so good as you do to repeat, I try in some street shops around me to correct when I see shops not mannaging it inside the walls and not make space when the people wait outside. People want to collaborate but have pain to focus on the basics they were asked. I'm going to print your link to show the little shops around me when food is needed...some people are still selfich.
coraggio, prenditi cura della famiglia. Grazie per averci avisato.
I’ve been lurking here for days. A most fascinating and informative thread. I have a simple question. Sunlight is said to destroy the virus in minutes if not seconds. I live in Phoenix so I’ve got plenty of that. It’s my habit now to park things like cardboard and keys in the sun for a while before bringing them indoors. What about vegetables? I’m a bit concerned about produce in the store that has been handed and potentially coughed on by many. What are some options for sanitizing my produce?
Heat if you can cook them, but maybe concentrated salt water or bleach in H2O (not too much bleach for sure) for sure will kill viruses.
Soap and water on vegetables you can peel for sure!
Soap and water on vegetables you can peel for sure!
This was on another audio site and shows how even the young can get and how bad it is:
My 30 year niece sent this about a nurse that she knows.
A first hand tale from the front lines of this battle.........COVID19 is not like the flu...at all... How do I know? Because I’ve lived through it to tell the tale!
Memoirs of a 31 y.o. male nurse from OU Medical Center, OKC. with no underlying health conditions.
March 3, 2020-Bronchitis like illness started, dry cough, no fever
March 5, 2020-Low grade fever starts, still thinking bronchitis
March 6, 2020-Fever climbs from 99.8 to 102.6 in one hour, thought it was flu and was now outside the Tamiflu window, stayed home for symptom management.
March 9, 2020-Fever of >102 continues, this isn’t flu, go to urgent care, diagnosed with pneumonia, started on Levaquin.
March 11, 2020-3 doses of Levaquin in, no improvement in symptoms, go to ER. Admitted, swabbed for COVID19, IV antibiotics got pneumonia on chest CT.
March 12, 2020-Get to a room and placed on supplemental oxygen via nasal cannula, 1 liter per minute (lpm). I’m only able to achieve 500 on my incentive spirometer, for perspective-my healthy lungs could hit 4000.
March 13, 2020-O2 saturation begins to decline, oxygen increased to 2 lpm, then 3 lpm, then 5 lpm. Oxygen saturation 88% on 5 lpm. The decision is made to use high flow (vapotherm) and move to ICU. Placed on 40 lpm and 60% oxygen. I’m terrified at this point because vapotherm is all that is standing between me and the ventilator. This is the moment I would have died at home had I not come to the hospital when I did. I would have respiratory arrested in my bed.
March 14, 2020-I have a bad coughing spell, my oxygen saturation drops to the 80’s. I’m still on 40 lpm and 60%. I’m trying to gasp for air, but because of the condition of my lungs, can only take small breaths without coughing more. I feel as though I’m about to die, my heart is racing, oxygen still low, and I’m sweating profusely. Im in respiratory distress! I pressed my call light trying to get the attention of anyone who can help. My nurse was in another room tending to another sick patient. Fortunately he sees me and comes to my room. I am now on 40 lpm and 100% oxygen, next step is the ventilator. I’m terrified. My breathing slows as my oxygen saturation slowly returns to the 90’s. I’m weaned back down to 60%. The same thing happens again in the night, and again I thought I was about to leave this world. Again I’m on 100%, this time for several hours. I’m slowly weaned again to 60%.
March 15, 2020-My morning arterial blood gas (which hurts like a ) is normal. I get weaned to 50%.
March 16, 2020-My oxygen saturation is 97%, I’m weaned further to 30 lpm and 40%.
March 17, 2020-I’ve been in ICU 4 days, forced to use a bedpan because my oxygen saturation drops if I turn or even move too much. I am unable to clean myself; I’m feeling completely helpless and so embarrassed, but my nurses were great and very understanding. I now truly understand my patients’ feelings from all these years of nursing. I’m weaned to 25 lpm and 30%. I’m going to the medical floor.
March 18, 2020-I’m weaned to 28%. I can achieve 1500 on my incentive spirometer finally. I’m hopeful to be weaned to a regular nasal cannula. The provider comes in. I’ve been waiting for my swab results. I tested positive for COVID19...6.5 days of waiting for the outside lab to process the lab. I’m relieved because I finally have a diagnosis, a reason I’ve been so sick. I’m weaned to 4 lpm on a regular nasal cannula, 4 hours later I’m weaned to 2 lpm. 4 hours later I’m weaned to room air. My oxygen saturation stats 93% and above all night.
March 19, 2020-As I write this, I’m waiting to attempt a 6 minute walk test to see if my oxygen stays up, so I can go home. I’ve had no visitors this entire time due to my isolation precautions.
Guys, this is why social isolation is a thing. As a 31 y.o., I wasn’t supposed to get sick. I wasn’t supposed to be admitted to the hospital or the ICU for that matter. We’ve already had several deaths from COVID19 in this area. I thank God I wasn’t one of them! However, many won’t be as fortunate as I have been. Many will die, especially those with any lung or heart problems. So please, I beg you to #stayhome
My 30 year niece sent this about a nurse that she knows.
A first hand tale from the front lines of this battle.........COVID19 is not like the flu...at all... How do I know? Because I’ve lived through it to tell the tale!
Memoirs of a 31 y.o. male nurse from OU Medical Center, OKC. with no underlying health conditions.
March 3, 2020-Bronchitis like illness started, dry cough, no fever
March 5, 2020-Low grade fever starts, still thinking bronchitis
March 6, 2020-Fever climbs from 99.8 to 102.6 in one hour, thought it was flu and was now outside the Tamiflu window, stayed home for symptom management.
March 9, 2020-Fever of >102 continues, this isn’t flu, go to urgent care, diagnosed with pneumonia, started on Levaquin.
March 11, 2020-3 doses of Levaquin in, no improvement in symptoms, go to ER. Admitted, swabbed for COVID19, IV antibiotics got pneumonia on chest CT.
March 12, 2020-Get to a room and placed on supplemental oxygen via nasal cannula, 1 liter per minute (lpm). I’m only able to achieve 500 on my incentive spirometer, for perspective-my healthy lungs could hit 4000.
March 13, 2020-O2 saturation begins to decline, oxygen increased to 2 lpm, then 3 lpm, then 5 lpm. Oxygen saturation 88% on 5 lpm. The decision is made to use high flow (vapotherm) and move to ICU. Placed on 40 lpm and 60% oxygen. I’m terrified at this point because vapotherm is all that is standing between me and the ventilator. This is the moment I would have died at home had I not come to the hospital when I did. I would have respiratory arrested in my bed.
March 14, 2020-I have a bad coughing spell, my oxygen saturation drops to the 80’s. I’m still on 40 lpm and 60%. I’m trying to gasp for air, but because of the condition of my lungs, can only take small breaths without coughing more. I feel as though I’m about to die, my heart is racing, oxygen still low, and I’m sweating profusely. Im in respiratory distress! I pressed my call light trying to get the attention of anyone who can help. My nurse was in another room tending to another sick patient. Fortunately he sees me and comes to my room. I am now on 40 lpm and 100% oxygen, next step is the ventilator. I’m terrified. My breathing slows as my oxygen saturation slowly returns to the 90’s. I’m weaned back down to 60%. The same thing happens again in the night, and again I thought I was about to leave this world. Again I’m on 100%, this time for several hours. I’m slowly weaned again to 60%.
March 15, 2020-My morning arterial blood gas (which hurts like a ) is normal. I get weaned to 50%.
March 16, 2020-My oxygen saturation is 97%, I’m weaned further to 30 lpm and 40%.
March 17, 2020-I’ve been in ICU 4 days, forced to use a bedpan because my oxygen saturation drops if I turn or even move too much. I am unable to clean myself; I’m feeling completely helpless and so embarrassed, but my nurses were great and very understanding. I now truly understand my patients’ feelings from all these years of nursing. I’m weaned to 25 lpm and 30%. I’m going to the medical floor.
March 18, 2020-I’m weaned to 28%. I can achieve 1500 on my incentive spirometer finally. I’m hopeful to be weaned to a regular nasal cannula. The provider comes in. I’ve been waiting for my swab results. I tested positive for COVID19...6.5 days of waiting for the outside lab to process the lab. I’m relieved because I finally have a diagnosis, a reason I’ve been so sick. I’m weaned to 4 lpm on a regular nasal cannula, 4 hours later I’m weaned to 2 lpm. 4 hours later I’m weaned to room air. My oxygen saturation stats 93% and above all night.
March 19, 2020-As I write this, I’m waiting to attempt a 6 minute walk test to see if my oxygen stays up, so I can go home. I’ve had no visitors this entire time due to my isolation precautions.
Guys, this is why social isolation is a thing. As a 31 y.o., I wasn’t supposed to get sick. I wasn’t supposed to be admitted to the hospital or the ICU for that matter. We’ve already had several deaths from COVID19 in this area. I thank God I wasn’t one of them! However, many won’t be as fortunate as I have been. Many will die, especially those with any lung or heart problems. So please, I beg you to #stayhome
Captn Dave, Better to ask our virologist origina poster, but indeed it's a very important data and some tests have been made but halas some seems contradictory, so a lot of difference according the surface, object we are talking too.
I give you the datas I have from a virolog professor in a'press interview, to check and recheck to avoid errors, fake, anyway is a good reflex, understanding can be biased as well. So to take with a grain of salt:
Skin, several hours according the conditions, typically 4 to 6 hours.
Inert surfaces from several hours or minutes (coper, zinc, typically 1 to 10 days according the conditions (temperature, material). It's not in the air in the meaning cv19 needs a physical larger driver, micro drops when you speak too near a people or when you touch something that can transmitt if the virus is still alive.
So as you stated, digital handing for the food good is a problem.
For the moment to be prudent as I also focus on a 83 parent, I personnaly put the fruits that are skined with a bath of hot water with a little hand soap to help till the water is cold. Then I coock it having whashing my hands just before with hot water and soap, dry ghemwith a new clean tissus or paper.
I especially take care with the suroundings of food, plastic, card, etc, not to transfer it on the food. If you stock, 10 days seems ok even if logical should be the 4 to 6 hours skin model. I spday it with alcohol solution as water is not enough it seems after putting them on the shelves and give them a day before touching it again.
That's maybe what you should observe or say to your customers if you sold vegetables. We need it as a fresh sources of micro nutriments.
But wait a virologist confirm in order to avoid to spread fake info. It's just what I do to avoid risk for the family.
Sun seems not enough safe as some surfaces can be hidded from UV, the virus is relativly strong so the minutes of sun heat if it's summertime may change too much, and you understood the handy transport by fingers is the main risk. Iadvised a shop vegetable manager to stop to smoke not to infect his plastics gloves but it's almost impossible as some figured out q,ready we touch our faces as monkeys several each minutes...
I give you the datas I have from a virolog professor in a'press interview, to check and recheck to avoid errors, fake, anyway is a good reflex, understanding can be biased as well. So to take with a grain of salt:
Skin, several hours according the conditions, typically 4 to 6 hours.
Inert surfaces from several hours or minutes (coper, zinc, typically 1 to 10 days according the conditions (temperature, material). It's not in the air in the meaning cv19 needs a physical larger driver, micro drops when you speak too near a people or when you touch something that can transmitt if the virus is still alive.
So as you stated, digital handing for the food good is a problem.
For the moment to be prudent as I also focus on a 83 parent, I personnaly put the fruits that are skined with a bath of hot water with a little hand soap to help till the water is cold. Then I coock it having whashing my hands just before with hot water and soap, dry ghemwith a new clean tissus or paper.
I especially take care with the suroundings of food, plastic, card, etc, not to transfer it on the food. If you stock, 10 days seems ok even if logical should be the 4 to 6 hours skin model. I spday it with alcohol solution as water is not enough it seems after putting them on the shelves and give them a day before touching it again.
That's maybe what you should observe or say to your customers if you sold vegetables. We need it as a fresh sources of micro nutriments.
But wait a virologist confirm in order to avoid to spread fake info. It's just what I do to avoid risk for the family.
Sun seems not enough safe as some surfaces can be hidded from UV, the virus is relativly strong so the minutes of sun heat if it's summertime may change too much, and you understood the handy transport by fingers is the main risk. Iadvised a shop vegetable manager to stop to smoke not to infect his plastics gloves but it's almost impossible as some figured out q,ready we touch our faces as monkeys several each minutes...
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@rmyauck - your niece got lucky! But what I don't understand is why it takes 6 days to get the lab results! Or maybe they didn't hurry because it was clear that it was COVID-19?
Jan
Jan
Jan, we've had absolutely terrible early response and tooling up for this pandemic, especially in terms of the PCR-based test. It, sadly, doesn't surprise me that it took 6 days. Our "new cases per day" plot is absolutely skyrocketing, which is probably a double-dose of our testing infrastructure coming online (so lots of cases that should have already been positives are showing up now) and truly new cases.
Jakob/et al., I have not paid attention to the close-in details on an titre test (blood-based test to identify signatures of immune response to a disease, SARS-COV-2 in this case), as I generally don't want to get excited about early solutions or the latest hot news before the longer, robust, development cycles take root, even if someone sits on a machine to do antibody epitope binning non-stop to find the best monoclonal antibody(ies). Between synthesis/etc, these take a good amount of development, much of which is serial in nature, albeit it can be greatly accelerated by trying a lot of different permutations (even if a bunch don't look promising) in parallel to get broader screening.
I will again reinforce that I work with the folks that are the experts on these machines and processes, and have learned a ton by osmosis (and helping with process integration). I am more on the hardware side of diagnostic platforms (EE, after all), so please don't take me as gospel. Even if I end up a bit jargon-y, I do try to throw in the terms I know for anyone to look up more thoroughly, especially if my understanding and communication are unclear. Last thing I want to is lead people astray.
Jakob/et al., I have not paid attention to the close-in details on an titre test (blood-based test to identify signatures of immune response to a disease, SARS-COV-2 in this case), as I generally don't want to get excited about early solutions or the latest hot news before the longer, robust, development cycles take root, even if someone sits on a machine to do antibody epitope binning non-stop to find the best monoclonal antibody(ies). Between synthesis/etc, these take a good amount of development, much of which is serial in nature, albeit it can be greatly accelerated by trying a lot of different permutations (even if a bunch don't look promising) in parallel to get broader screening.
I will again reinforce that I work with the folks that are the experts on these machines and processes, and have learned a ton by osmosis (and helping with process integration). I am more on the hardware side of diagnostic platforms (EE, after all), so please don't take me as gospel. Even if I end up a bit jargon-y, I do try to throw in the terms I know for anyone to look up more thoroughly, especially if my understanding and communication are unclear. Last thing I want to is lead people astray.
Yeah strong UV (sunlight like you get in Phoenix) is a pretty effective way to broadly damage DNA/RNA, beyond a point which repair mechanisms can fix. That said, I'd be reluctant to treat a box left out in the sun as disinfected, as you're not getting 100% coverage (illumination). It helps for sure, but please open outdoors/gloves (or wash hands immediately after removing objects).
As far as raw produce, a thorough rinse wash will remove a lot, especially if you can use a mild soap. Cook as much of it as you can rather than raw. I don't know of any numbers published about SARS-COV-2 life time on surface other than copper/plastic/stainless/cardboard to give you a better idea. I haven't read any stories suggesting that fruit/vegetables themselves have been attributed to transmission, but that's hardly definitive as this diseases case load explodes globally and would be nigh impossible to do that kind of investigation.
This is the best info I can give to this end:
Food Safety and the Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | FDA
This what you're looking for? I like the graphs as they tell the story better (in terms of half-life)
Daily Chart - How long can the novel coronavirus survive on surfaces and in the air? | Graphic detail | The Economist
Daily Chart - How long can the novel coronavirus survive on surfaces and in the air? | Graphic detail | The Economist
System7's two hands
From Sean
No problemo in pools are there is a little javel in it, danger is more in th cublicles after the bath... but I propose this to you as a smile break : the swimming pool soap scene from The Party with Peter Sellers : YouTube
From Sean
No problemo in pools are there is a little javel in it, danger is more in th cublicles after the bath... but I propose this to you as a smile break : the swimming pool soap scene from The Party with Peter Sellers : YouTube
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an interesting link perhaps from march 11 : Coronavirus can live in the air for three hours, survive on surfaces for two to three days - UPI.com
Pasteur institute however said about this print it is not suitable for a street model in real life ! So not to worry about this study. But opening the windows at home sometimes if you are more than alone at home may be a good idea !
But an eye blink yet about physical distanciation... little rooms with a lot of visit and no open windows : lifts, public Toilets, etc ! Good to say again virus needs a driver, micro drops when someone talk too near for instance. I'm sure in NYC and big cities there is already some methodology not to full the lifts too much ...
Pasteur institute however said about this print it is not suitable for a street model in real life ! So not to worry about this study. But opening the windows at home sometimes if you are more than alone at home may be a good idea !
But an eye blink yet about physical distanciation... little rooms with a lot of visit and no open windows : lifts, public Toilets, etc ! Good to say again virus needs a driver, micro drops when someone talk too near for instance. I'm sure in NYC and big cities there is already some methodology not to full the lifts too much ...
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