Looking over the April 2023 Stereophile "Recommended Components" I spied the presence of at least one DIYAUDIO correspondent. Doubtless there are others.
What I was struck by were the number of highly rated ss amps which cost a fraction of their similarly ranked peers. It's like watches...some have great appearance and perform well...some appear utilitarian and perform extremely well....Audemars Piaget vs Timex perhaps.
What I was struck by were the number of highly rated ss amps which cost a fraction of their similarly ranked peers. It's like watches...some have great appearance and perform well...some appear utilitarian and perform extremely well....Audemars Piaget vs Timex perhaps.
Most of the Swiss watch makers are gone, the few that survive are mostly with expensive cases (Gold, Platinum etc.), and rarely with real technology like the Rolex Oyster series.
More fancy jewelry / style statement than accurate time piece for the most part. And quartz movement is mostly more accurate.
Henri Sandoz, Tressa, Titoni...just a few names that were famous in India, long since defunct.
The famous Cartier watches were made in a shop with only six employees, you would not believe that from the advertising in the glossies!
The Swiss watch industry was mainly in the French speaking part of Switzerland, in and around Geneva.
If you look at their quality, under a microscope, you will find the workmanship was mediocre for the most part, in the gears and springs, and cases, other things as well compared to Japanese mechanical watches.
Miyota 2035 quartz movements for watches are less than a dollar in bulk, the rest of the price is in the case, dial and assembly, and of course convincing you to buy it...Miyota owns Citizen, quality is superlative.
Some people rate Soviet watches very highly, not my area of expertise.
And if you open the hood, so to speak, the circuits in audio amplifiers are based on semiconductors which are bought out from suppliers who rarely are exclusive suppliers.
2N3055 / 2955, TIP 41/42, STKs, TDA series, 1843/5200... those are classic designs.
And with those, you are limited to SOA, so the only variations will be in voltage and component quality, maybe some limited variety in the pre-amplifier section.
Bang & Olufssen, and many others decided to get out of the audio business for many reasons.
And I for one would not pay $2000 for a unit with a ready plate amplifier inside.
Valves? Not my area of interest, thank you, but I see audiophiles raving about Chinese amps and valves. And acting snooty, as if it is a big deal.
Speakers, again, not much variation in designs.
Scan Speak, so famous, has all of 24 employees, it is assembling Chinese parts, for it is a Chinese owned boutique brand.
JBL and Altec Lansing also have less than 1000 employees each world wide, so I suspect most of them are in sales and administration, not on the shop floor.
They may be involved in contract manufacturing, in the sense some contractor makes them for them, under their supervision, possibly from parts supplied by trusted suppliers.
Now, we are seeing a shift to personal devices like ear buds, no comment for sound quality, but it means poor sales for the amplifier / speaker combinations we are familiar with.
Here also, in a market like India, the national sales for Marantz and their ilk are below 1000 annually, we see sales of more than 100k units in cheaper amps.
So the expensive guys have to convince you somehow to buy their product, they all have to eat, so the profit on selling one unit has to meet the dealer's expenses for two weeks...so it goes...
I have mentioned names only as examples, no ties to anybody.
More fancy jewelry / style statement than accurate time piece for the most part. And quartz movement is mostly more accurate.
Henri Sandoz, Tressa, Titoni...just a few names that were famous in India, long since defunct.
The famous Cartier watches were made in a shop with only six employees, you would not believe that from the advertising in the glossies!
The Swiss watch industry was mainly in the French speaking part of Switzerland, in and around Geneva.
If you look at their quality, under a microscope, you will find the workmanship was mediocre for the most part, in the gears and springs, and cases, other things as well compared to Japanese mechanical watches.
Miyota 2035 quartz movements for watches are less than a dollar in bulk, the rest of the price is in the case, dial and assembly, and of course convincing you to buy it...Miyota owns Citizen, quality is superlative.
Some people rate Soviet watches very highly, not my area of expertise.
And if you open the hood, so to speak, the circuits in audio amplifiers are based on semiconductors which are bought out from suppliers who rarely are exclusive suppliers.
2N3055 / 2955, TIP 41/42, STKs, TDA series, 1843/5200... those are classic designs.
And with those, you are limited to SOA, so the only variations will be in voltage and component quality, maybe some limited variety in the pre-amplifier section.
Bang & Olufssen, and many others decided to get out of the audio business for many reasons.
And I for one would not pay $2000 for a unit with a ready plate amplifier inside.
Valves? Not my area of interest, thank you, but I see audiophiles raving about Chinese amps and valves. And acting snooty, as if it is a big deal.
Speakers, again, not much variation in designs.
Scan Speak, so famous, has all of 24 employees, it is assembling Chinese parts, for it is a Chinese owned boutique brand.
JBL and Altec Lansing also have less than 1000 employees each world wide, so I suspect most of them are in sales and administration, not on the shop floor.
They may be involved in contract manufacturing, in the sense some contractor makes them for them, under their supervision, possibly from parts supplied by trusted suppliers.
Now, we are seeing a shift to personal devices like ear buds, no comment for sound quality, but it means poor sales for the amplifier / speaker combinations we are familiar with.
Here also, in a market like India, the national sales for Marantz and their ilk are below 1000 annually, we see sales of more than 100k units in cheaper amps.
So the expensive guys have to convince you somehow to buy their product, they all have to eat, so the profit on selling one unit has to meet the dealer's expenses for two weeks...so it goes...
I have mentioned names only as examples, no ties to anybody.
Last edited:
I know a factory here, they make speaker cabinets, and trade in amps, tweeters and so on.
They used to assemble speakers, found good speakers ready made, so no longer make them.
5000 square feet including warehouse, about 20 employees, and a shop as well in the electronics market in the city, with more employees there.
Compare that to ScanSpeak?
My city has 4.1 million people, and it is a smallish city in India, we have two factories making speakers, and three repair shops who repair damaged speakers.
The city of Delhi is the center for this line of equipment in India, there will be many makers in that area, some with impressive volumes.
Their prices will take you back to childhood.
They used to assemble speakers, found good speakers ready made, so no longer make them.
5000 square feet including warehouse, about 20 employees, and a shop as well in the electronics market in the city, with more employees there.
Compare that to ScanSpeak?
My city has 4.1 million people, and it is a smallish city in India, we have two factories making speakers, and three repair shops who repair damaged speakers.
The city of Delhi is the center for this line of equipment in India, there will be many makers in that area, some with impressive volumes.
Their prices will take you back to childhood.
Last edited:
Hmmm...all of the above sounds like an adfirmation contrary to what's to be considered hi-end, and it's quite the opposite: Mass production, probably PA, and deliberate usage of well known designs, that doesn't mean that It must be right. You've got the right ro adfirm that, it's your reality but it's not the Truth.
Adfirming: 'valves?I don't care' precludes you from a piece of the pie...and you want (Need) the whole pie!
,'audiophiles are allright with tube amps from china': that has to demonstrated, I see local and National second-hand market that has a loro of them, so tell me the real trip of a piece of human craftmanship that has to pass the judgement of the ears to obtain a Place in their house.
And that applies to every piece...the BIG problem Is to find a house that has a room where the sound reproduction/ music lover may take place, or i st...happen
Adfirming: 'valves?I don't care' precludes you from a piece of the pie...and you want (Need) the whole pie!
,'audiophiles are allright with tube amps from china': that has to demonstrated, I see local and National second-hand market that has a loro of them, so tell me the real trip of a piece of human craftmanship that has to pass the judgement of the ears to obtain a Place in their house.
And that applies to every piece...the BIG problem Is to find a house that has a room where the sound reproduction/ music lover may take place, or i st...happen
Choose another 'area of interest'...
Which Is yours? As audio Is a multi- branched site to Explore...
Also computer enthusiasts have their own area of competency where they can teach what sound Is and how to manipulate It...
Which Is yours? As audio Is a multi- branched site to Explore...
Also computer enthusiasts have their own area of competency where they can teach what sound Is and how to manipulate It...
The enclosure I put my amplifier in makes a statement; that I'm a cheap mofo. That would be the Truth. The statement the enclosure someone like Rowland or Krell makes is; "you know this will sound good; you dont even have to turn it on". Apparently, that part matters; even the low-end-with-high-rating have to be above some threshold in appearance, but the big $ is when that appearance all by itself makes a definitive statement - you know, like glowing LEDs underneath the tubes do. If you can live without that, as I do, then you can get something that really does sound just fine, without spending the mega $.
On the other hand I've not yet figured out what truly drives people to spend their money. A few days ago, someone spent (bid) $147,000 on an early prototype 3 button mouse, circa late 1960's. I realize collecting is about getting to have (the complete set, etc), but sheesh! I imagine that same sense of getting to have (the apparently unobtainable) drives at least some of the sales of the high end stuff, where the price points are as well, unbelievable!
Amendment:
"Valves? Not my area of interest, thank you"
My mistake above...
I wonder how many people get influenced into showing off their wealth...
"Valves? Not my area of interest, thank you"
My mistake above...
I wonder how many people get influenced into showing off their wealth...
Rolls Royce cars used GM bus engines, and Allison transmissions intended for school buses and the like, back in the days before it got sold.
Power was mentioned as 'adequate".......
And this thing was advertised as so quiet you could hear the clock ticking....really!
And British audio makers' BS is legendary....
Carver, also to some extent, made some far fetched claims...you would think it was the best amplifier ever...
Now, you have a choice from 1W/ch, out to 200W/ch in DIY, parts are available, there is a vast amount of practical experience available.
Have fun making and listening to your home made units.
Power was mentioned as 'adequate".......
And this thing was advertised as so quiet you could hear the clock ticking....really!
And British audio makers' BS is legendary....
Carver, also to some extent, made some far fetched claims...you would think it was the best amplifier ever...
Now, you have a choice from 1W/ch, out to 200W/ch in DIY, parts are available, there is a vast amount of practical experience available.
Have fun making and listening to your home made units.
I always thought that Marantz made good Hifi equipment, than, for 9 years, I repaired 2 new Marantz amps, the 7055 and the 7025, they were thrown out of a window, after a marriage breakup (!), they are full of Chinese cheap capacitors, I was shocked....My Yamaha amp still got known brands good stuff put in...
So only the the top grade units of many well known brands have good components put in, the rest is made extremely budget minded, From the outside they look good, inside is disappointing....
So only the the top grade units of many well known brands have good components put in, the rest is made extremely budget minded, From the outside they look good, inside is disappointing....
The Japanese were chauvinistic in that they used Japanese components for the most part, or top end American parts from TI, IR and AMD (Mitsubishi PLC).
And their component quality was the best, and like you said Marantz was pig with lipstick...no wonder it is almost gone.
No wonder they are reputed and trustworthy, good components, good layouts, all well within SOA...so nothing ran stressed out.
And their component quality was the best, and like you said Marantz was pig with lipstick...no wonder it is almost gone.
No wonder they are reputed and trustworthy, good components, good layouts, all well within SOA...so nothing ran stressed out.
Do you use tube power? No
Do you use the TT as your main source ? No
You're not an audiophile and you're not entitled to take part of the discussion...
Even if it's DIY
Stereophile as name suggests, has always represented the U.S. stereo market -- big-and-loud-and-disco-bass in a very large house -- nowadays for one or maybe two retirees.
I finally threw away my double-digit-early issues.
On Taobao one cannot keep up with new brands and models popping up all the time, often with audioclips that sounded quite good. Obviously not big-and-loud-and-disco-bass/large-house/single-retiree.
I finally threw away my double-digit-early issues.
On Taobao one cannot keep up with new brands and models popping up all the time, often with audioclips that sounded quite good. Obviously not big-and-loud-and-disco-bass/large-house/single-retiree.
That is a peculiar definition.
Reel to reel, cassette etc. are also excluded?
Who makes these rules?
Reel to reel, cassette etc. are also excluded?
Who makes these rules?
The japanese invented the name JVC, and the V you know what It stands for...?!
And Marantz and all the others, you know about the end of consumer electronics in hi,-fi segment from years, don't ya?!
You can say what you like about Rolls Royce cars (personally I'm not a fan) but they never used a GM engines, bus or otherwise.
Consider that they hark back to a time when luxury car makers sold you a rolling chassis with an engine but you had to supply your own bodywork.
Jackinnj,
Thanks for the posting. I would opine that a number of the commercial products' founders also dabbled in DIY. After all how was the manufacturing prototype built - and the ones that preceded it?
I'm reminded of the last VSAC that Doc Bottlehead ran in 2003 (Think it stood for Vacuum State Audio Conference - or something like that). It was of, for and by DIY'ers and was absolutely heavenly. Another friend of his tried a similar conference maybe two years later. Everyone was back BUT now were trying to sell something. A totally different experience - GONE was the DIY flavor/furvor.
Thanks for the posting. I would opine that a number of the commercial products' founders also dabbled in DIY. After all how was the manufacturing prototype built - and the ones that preceded it?
I'm reminded of the last VSAC that Doc Bottlehead ran in 2003 (Think it stood for Vacuum State Audio Conference - or something like that). It was of, for and by DIY'ers and was absolutely heavenly. Another friend of his tried a similar conference maybe two years later. Everyone was back BUT now were trying to sell something. A totally different experience - GONE was the DIY flavor/furvor.
The high end Manufacturers are not selling to us. Why do we think they are? They are selling to the people buying luxury goods and appearance is an issue.
