Some of you folks might want to try this 😀
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...mate-opamp-shootout-where-you-get-decide.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ever...mate-opamp-shootout-where-you-get-decide.html
Hello everyone,
i been reading this topic for some time now and there's really lots of usefull opinions. But time goes and maybe there's new best out there among duals?
I have Buffalo IIIse dac with Legato 3.1 i/v stage. While i enjoy overall quality of the dac, the sound always felt a bit too bright/sweet/sunny for me so i tried to change balance>SE stage opamp from LM4562 to the only dual i had which is OPA2134. While brightness is gone - the overall performance feels a bit worse than 4562 - not as "clean round and liquid" anymore, especially at top octave so i imidiately decided to try OPA2132 and 2604... but maybe there's something newer and better? I'm looking for opamps with darker character and as fast/transparent as possible. OPA627 would be probably ideal if it wasn't single channel...
i been reading this topic for some time now and there's really lots of usefull opinions. But time goes and maybe there's new best out there among duals?
I have Buffalo IIIse dac with Legato 3.1 i/v stage. While i enjoy overall quality of the dac, the sound always felt a bit too bright/sweet/sunny for me so i tried to change balance>SE stage opamp from LM4562 to the only dual i had which is OPA2134. While brightness is gone - the overall performance feels a bit worse than 4562 - not as "clean round and liquid" anymore, especially at top octave so i imidiately decided to try OPA2132 and 2604... but maybe there's something newer and better? I'm looking for opamps with darker character and as fast/transparent as possible. OPA627 would be probably ideal if it wasn't single channel...
For same low cost as LM4562, but even better 'specs' there's the bi-polar input OPA1612. If you want a jFet input, there's the OPA1642. Actual sound is totally in your PS.
Hello Alexander.
what you are looking for is LME49860, it is not mellow as OPA2134 and not bright as LM4562. Just clean and balanced with good bass definition.
what you are looking for is LME49860, it is not mellow as OPA2134 and not bright as LM4562. Just clean and balanced with good bass definition.
Thanks, i just plugged LME49860 and it's like you said - not bright at all, deeper sound, more bass, less highs. It's interesting to see a "variations of LM4562" perform so different...
I'll also try OPA2604 soon, but overall - LME49860 solve my tonality problem and sound is very nice. It actually feels a bit too unbright now 😀
With all these strong differences between different ICs i can't help but start thinkg about those Burson discrete opamps now...
Today i inserted OPA2604 - sounds somewhat similar tonality wise, but it has cleaner highs, larger soundstage, more fluid and musical with no detectable detail loss. It is definately better than OPA2134 in my dac.
I guess the next step is either pair of 627 in adapter or discrete opamp...
I guess the next step is either pair of 627 in adapter or discrete opamp...
could the "change" be more to do with not optimising the decoupling to suit the different opamp?
Have you tested/measured the circuit to prove that performance has not deteriorated?
Have you tested/measured the circuit to prove that performance has not deteriorated?
There's three ways to go about this; 1) design a circuit for a specific opamp, 2) study the circuit and then choose an opamp that is best suited to the circuit, and 3) just roll different opamps and decide which one sounds the best.
Many of us (I speak for myself here) simply don't have sufficient knowledge for the first two methods, so we just acquire a dozen or so opamps and go for it, much to the chagrin of local EEs .
If you can't work out how to check/measure that the circuit is, or is not, misbehaving then don't guess at component changes.
geez Andrew, wreck all their fun ... 😀
Actually if the circuit's well behaved with the 4562 it'll probably be okay with the others listed, the 4562 being the more finicky of the bunch.
in that case we dont even have to change op amps. if you change any passive component in the circuit around opamp you will hear the difference. in my opinion better play with op amps.
Here's an interesting observation I had recently - not long ago I upgraded my TPA Placid power supplies (shunt-regulated psu's) to newer 2.1 version and noticed that all of my opamps sound more similar than they did previously. They all sound darker now. I guess opamps are more sensitive to cleaner power (even if it's clean vs ultra-clean) than I thought.
I decided to test all opamps i have again and differences are there, just less pronounced:
LM4562 is still brighter than all the rest but feels more smooth and rounded, more forward and narrow soundstage. Sounds somewhat artificial sometimes...
LM49860 is darker than 4562, the highs feel more detailed (but also more grainy) while midrange is smoother and less pronounced. Less artificial sounding...
OPA2604 sounds warm, bassy, deep and smooth, but highs are rolled-off much. Most musical of the bunch though, least forward sounding, least artificial.
OPA2134 is somewhat similar to 2604 with more highs, but more grain and overall sound is not as smooth or musical.
NE5532 reminds of 2604 but with more highs, more distortions, not as smooth...but for some reason sound balanced, neutral and is easy to listen to, even though I hear it's flaws easily.
There's one thing in common among all opamps it seems...they all suck! I'll keep looking for discrete opamp solution or it's time to go full balanced...
I decided to test all opamps i have again and differences are there, just less pronounced:
LM4562 is still brighter than all the rest but feels more smooth and rounded, more forward and narrow soundstage. Sounds somewhat artificial sometimes...
LM49860 is darker than 4562, the highs feel more detailed (but also more grainy) while midrange is smoother and less pronounced. Less artificial sounding...
OPA2604 sounds warm, bassy, deep and smooth, but highs are rolled-off much. Most musical of the bunch though, least forward sounding, least artificial.
OPA2134 is somewhat similar to 2604 with more highs, but more grain and overall sound is not as smooth or musical.
NE5532 reminds of 2604 but with more highs, more distortions, not as smooth...but for some reason sound balanced, neutral and is easy to listen to, even though I hear it's flaws easily.
There's one thing in common among all opamps it seems...they all suck! I'll keep looking for discrete opamp solution or it's time to go full balanced...
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I think 4558 is the very best there is if you absolutely positively got to kill every audiophile in the room except the deaf one.
Mostly all opamps sound the same if you have crap source.
So far the best one ive heard is OPA2134 but I almost never use dual opamps in my designs. Id rather got for single ones.
Mostly all opamps sound the same if you have crap source.
So far the best one ive heard is OPA2134 but I almost never use dual opamps in my designs. Id rather got for single ones.
Intresting. Thought I'm the only liking the 2604.
However, a matter of the environment.
In my experience opamp sound is very much a function of the environment. Power supply impedance is crucial as is exposure to RF - JFETs tend to produce less audio band IMD from that.
I'm interested in C-Load.
http://cds.linear.com/docs/en/design-note/dn83.pdf
Is this why the LT series is popular? Anyone know how C-Load affects driving transducers directly?
The article is from 1994, are there better C-Load IC's yet? No, right?
I continued my experiments with my Buffalo/Legato3.1 and tried to compare my duals agains pair of OPA827 in adapter. The dual 827 result in such a smooth and pleasant sound that it's actually suspicious.
I see that i need to get more knowledge about opamps or test it with measurements.
Although working envirounment for opamp is quite simple - there's only 100pf cap in opamp's negative feedback loop. Also there's LME49600 buffer after opamp with negative feedback to opamp's input with 5k resistor in it...
If someone could give me a hint if i really can swap opamps here without changing anything, or should i stick to LM4562 clones before my knowledge allow for more? Thanks!
I see that i need to get more knowledge about opamps or test it with measurements.
Although working envirounment for opamp is quite simple - there's only 100pf cap in opamp's negative feedback loop. Also there's LME49600 buffer after opamp with negative feedback to opamp's input with 5k resistor in it...
If someone could give me a hint if i really can swap opamps here without changing anything, or should i stick to LM4562 clones before my knowledge allow for more? Thanks!
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