On the conspiracy theory: if you believe that 10's of thousands of scientists, working worldwide in various countries and cultures, are somehow able to get together and secretly set up a totally bull sh*t CC scare, weave a scientifically consistent story and keep the story together over decades, you need help. Serious help.
Jan
Jan
There are billions of humans all over the world who are being directly affected by climate change on a daily basis. Their collective stories prove the scientists are right, and that the conspiracy theorists are wrong.
I also believe that humans landed on the moon in 1969.
ToS
To all those arguing.
When basic instincts are challenged, controversies arise.
Climate Change is a horrid pill eventually everyone will have to swollow and make extreme personal sacrifices. During the two World Wars, it was the enemy, in the future it will be a harsh and expensive battle to make the world's climage behave.
One way may be to stimulate large volcanoes to erupt catastrophically. Goelogists can identify where there are magma chambers under pressure, but not enough pressure to cause an eruption. Since highly pressurised water vapour is known to cause volcanic eruptions, this may be used, but I shudder to think about the expenses involved and the terrible consequences of causing uncontrolled volcanic eruptions.
There is yet another terrible scenario to control the climate. This is by intentionally polluting the upper atmosphere with sun blocking and reflecting particles.
Others suggested stimulating the oceans to absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
All these ingenuous methods may fireback like any technology nut fully understood. To make an analogy suitable for diyaudio, it is like a newbie who has just received a large amplifier, and without understanding changes its bias with all the known consequences.
Quantum Mechanics clearly shows that carbon dioxide, has a meta-stable state, which technology uses to build powerful metal cutting lasers. A meta-stable state is an excitation state, that stays 'dormant' until there is an external stimulation, which causes a carbon dioxide molecule to release the state's energy.
Since the volume, and hence, mass of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution is known, I would like to suggest for someone to calculate the energy that can be stored in this mass of carbon dioxide using the meta-state as a mechanism. For 100 cubic kms of carbon dioxide at atmospheric pressure this is huge.
When basic instincts are challenged, controversies arise.
Climate Change is a horrid pill eventually everyone will have to swollow and make extreme personal sacrifices. During the two World Wars, it was the enemy, in the future it will be a harsh and expensive battle to make the world's climage behave.
One way may be to stimulate large volcanoes to erupt catastrophically. Goelogists can identify where there are magma chambers under pressure, but not enough pressure to cause an eruption. Since highly pressurised water vapour is known to cause volcanic eruptions, this may be used, but I shudder to think about the expenses involved and the terrible consequences of causing uncontrolled volcanic eruptions.
There is yet another terrible scenario to control the climate. This is by intentionally polluting the upper atmosphere with sun blocking and reflecting particles.
Others suggested stimulating the oceans to absorb carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.
All these ingenuous methods may fireback like any technology nut fully understood. To make an analogy suitable for diyaudio, it is like a newbie who has just received a large amplifier, and without understanding changes its bias with all the known consequences.
Quantum Mechanics clearly shows that carbon dioxide, has a meta-stable state, which technology uses to build powerful metal cutting lasers. A meta-stable state is an excitation state, that stays 'dormant' until there is an external stimulation, which causes a carbon dioxide molecule to release the state's energy.
Since the volume, and hence, mass of carbon dioxide released into the atmosphere since the industrial revolution is known, I would like to suggest for someone to calculate the energy that can be stored in this mass of carbon dioxide using the meta-state as a mechanism. For 100 cubic kms of carbon dioxide at atmospheric pressure this is huge.
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Absolutely spot on.
Conveniently for Evenharmonics, he ‘can’t discuss the detail on this forum’ because of the rules.
High school boy stuff.
I’d say the burden of proof that the Earth is not warming is on the claimants. The CC folks have put their case up.
I linked to Clive Best’s site earlier in this discussion. He makes the same point ie nothing is ever settled in science and he acknowledges AGW but does not think it will the end of humanity (but he is avowedly anti trashing the planet in the name of big business). He is a serious scientist (PhD in high energy physics) who uses data from all sorts of sources to back his POV - not trolling or deflection which seems to me to be the standard methodology of the anti-AGW folks.
“ . . . in the future it will be a harsh and expensive battle to make the world's climage behave.”
Surely you mean make humankind behave!
🙂
The army of "scientists" who would otherwise have been jobless? Yup, they seem like a trustworthy bunch who's made the right choice. The journos too. But best are the self-organised klimatjugend.
Where I live is remote and rural, and everybody who lives here accepts from their own direct personal experience that climate change is real, and is happening. The previous stability of seasonal changes has now gone, and every year sees an increase in sudden, often violent weather events. So far this year has seen drought in spring with a huge number of massive moorland fires, followed by a plague of ticks and fleas during an oppressively hot summer.
What can we do? Plant trees. What are we doing? Planting trees. The concern here is that if the peat bogs and wetlands dry out, it will cause a runaway destabilising effect upon the entire Scottish climate.
So some of us take climate change very seriously as something that needs to be addressed - now. If everybody all over the world starts planting trees, we could halt climate change within twenty years.
ToS
What can we do? Plant trees. What are we doing? Planting trees. The concern here is that if the peat bogs and wetlands dry out, it will cause a runaway destabilising effect upon the entire Scottish climate.
So some of us take climate change very seriously as something that needs to be addressed - now. If everybody all over the world starts planting trees, we could halt climate change within twenty years.
ToS
I am always amused by the term scientists in the hot news. Who are they? Nobel loreats? Or just people with higher education?😉
If wetlands and peat bogs dry, they are accessible even drier. Underground very smoky fires can begin, which are almost impossible to put out.
Yes, that is one way of looking at it.
However, so many forests worldwide have been cut down, and the land burnt off to remove tree stumps to make way for agriculture, that the ground itself needs to be reseeded with saplings.
Either that, or plant fast growing hemp.
ToS
The graph showing the antartic net ice mass loss:
(Source: The IMBIE Team; Mass balance of the Antarctic Ice Sheet
from 1992 to 2017; Nature, 14 JUNE 2018, Vol. 558, 219)
@warrjon,
Could you please cite the according paragraph in the report?
IIRC the food 'production' of the world would be sufficient to feed our current population, but unfortunately we dump a lot in the waste bin instead of sharing it.
Predictions for the future (if forecast of population rise becomes true) are not so bright as similar to the term 'peak oil' there is a 'peak wheat' and it seems that cro yield is declining due to various reasons.
(Source: The IMBIE Team; Mass balance of the Antarctic Ice Sheet
from 1992 to 2017; Nature, 14 JUNE 2018, Vol. 558, 219)
@warrjon,
Could you please cite the according paragraph in the report?
IIRC the food 'production' of the world would be sufficient to feed our current population, but unfortunately we dump a lot in the waste bin instead of sharing it.
Predictions for the future (if forecast of population rise becomes true) are not so bright as similar to the term 'peak oil' there is a 'peak wheat' and it seems that cro yield is declining due to various reasons.
Anything is better than nothing 😉
Seriously, anyone anywhere can set up a seed germination nursery of just one square metre. Think about it, that’s 7.7 billion square metres set aside for inaugural reforestation.
The real problems of climate change have been exacerbated by the loss of natural habitat acting as a CO2 buffer - including habitat for us humans. Don’t forget, we used to live in trees.
ToS
Meanwhile, we continue to swelter here in the August Bank Holiday weekend heat wave .......
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Most people are reluctant to change without sufficient pain and suffering. We on forums love to debate endlessly while the death toll is mounting. And even with humanity's best behavior, it is highly doubtful we can stave off a natural change of climate such as the coming glacial period.
We can and will adapt to the coming glacial period. We have done it before and will do so again. Remember this: it is a lot easier for us humans to keep warm when it is freezing cold, than it is to keep cool while it is rapidly becoming baking hot.
The most serious problem of all is our spiritual estrangement from the natural world. And yes, it is easy to harmlessly debate these existential matters upon online forums, but there are many of us out here on Terra-Firma who are actively doing something positive and constructive about what is hurtling towards us.
ToS
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I think my parents had at least 3 "one in a hundred years" floods in a five year period, a while back.
My freesias sprouted in February this year (they traditionally don't sprout till there have been cold winter nights. I was worried they would die off as they always do once it gets hot, but they just kept on growing through the end of summer and then autumn and are flowering beautifully now. I've had these particular freesias since the late 80's (though they have multiplied from the original ones I grew from seeds. It seems that every year they sprout earlier.
I'm not sure if they are adapting to the change in climate, or whether we are seeing unseasonal cold nights during summer than kickstart them into growing early.
We no longer have "normal" transitions between the seasons, they seem to end early, only to come back with a vengeance. It's happening now, It is the end of winter and we got very warm days for a few days, and then a cold snap (which seemed much colder than the rest of the winter), today was warm once again. This has been going on for quite a few years now, this oh summer is over, or winter is over, oh hang on not it isn't.....
What does this add to the thread? Nothing really, just some random musings about how things aren't really like they used to be 😉
Tony.
My freesias sprouted in February this year (they traditionally don't sprout till there have been cold winter nights. I was worried they would die off as they always do once it gets hot, but they just kept on growing through the end of summer and then autumn and are flowering beautifully now. I've had these particular freesias since the late 80's (though they have multiplied from the original ones I grew from seeds. It seems that every year they sprout earlier.
I'm not sure if they are adapting to the change in climate, or whether we are seeing unseasonal cold nights during summer than kickstart them into growing early.
We no longer have "normal" transitions between the seasons, they seem to end early, only to come back with a vengeance. It's happening now, It is the end of winter and we got very warm days for a few days, and then a cold snap (which seemed much colder than the rest of the winter), today was warm once again. This has been going on for quite a few years now, this oh summer is over, or winter is over, oh hang on not it isn't.....
What does this add to the thread? Nothing really, just some random musings about how things aren't really like they used to be 😉
Tony.
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