Fully agree. But if you look at those threads here that derail magnificently, it is almost always because someone presents his personal experience/opinion as THE TRVTH(tm). Then it goes downhill fast, with people being called deaf or 'listening to scopes' .
My observation.
Jan
Well then, it can't be applied in this particular situation.
But i think he was referring more to the actual principle.
Myself as well.
Yes - I've looked at those, and in fact used them in a Arbiter Fuzz Face effects pedal for my (37 year old) son. I went the whole hog, correct Ge transistors with the correct gains (the two of them need to be different), original board layout, rubbish capacitors. And the two pots going the wrong way round for rotation, like leftie Hendrix liked them.
Because Arbiter back in the day just shoved any old transistors in, Hendrix's electronics guy used to buy 50-off at a time, and then selected ones that actually worked and kept working regardless of venue temperature.
The downside of those ceramic composition resistors is that they are only available in either E6 or E12 values.
You can say offensive and violent things under Freedom of Speech.
Happens all the time. And I agree to that.
Jan
Happens all the time. And I agree to that.
Jan
In the interest of science 'deaf' was searched using DIYA's 'everywhere' option. It returned 10 pages of 20 results of which the first two pages didn't appear to include that usage. In a simple preliminary trial this hypothesis wasn't statistically confirmed.
Good .... but then he didn´t want an amplifier but an effects box instead.
Whatever he does in the privacy of his home is nobody else´s business.
Don´t generalize so much.
Some will buy something because it´s affordable, some because it´s a status symbol, some because they are impressed bacause of specs they read about, some because of glowing reports, some because of publicity, some because of price, some couldn´t care less, just need something to have background music, you are way oversimplifying by saying only one motivation exits.
Or at most some Manichean vision of reality, only Black/White and nothing else.
It is not so simple.
Anybody can have his own opinion, and keep it to himself or mention it in public (as in a Forum).
In the latter case, often it will elicit comment .... sort of "he is asking for it".
Probably some for, some against his ideas.
So be it, that´s what Forums are for 🙂
Now a few people become extremely emotional about that, and even start a long chain or argument of discussion.
Beyond a certain point, it ceases being fun.
Refocusing on this thread: some statements were made which don´t agree with general experience or measurements, and that was mentioned.
It should have ended there, worst case each one keeps his original opinion and that´s it, sadly it developed in a >100 post thread (so far) where "I can hear it and you don´t" is used and abused without the least proof, or at most some pseudo-Science is considered so.
It beats me.
You can "claim" anything ... but then stand for the answers.
In this case, many saying "it´s not so".
Even better: "if you think you can, PROVE it"
And no: "I am deeply convinced in the depth of my mind that it´s truth" is NOT enough. Period.
"Ridiculing a FACT?"
And which would the "fact" be?
So far, we have only been offered*opinion* and belief.
It's a hobbie i guess.
People share their opinions about how they percieve audio and/or how it translates to measurements.
So if you asked me, there is no serious conflict.
Regarding the 'fact' mentioned previously, I happen to perceive it as such. You don't have to agree with that.
Namely the subjective nature of an individual's expectations and perception of what sounds pleasing in audio.
And that's the beauty of pluralism in a forum.
People share their opinions about how they percieve audio and/or how it translates to measurements.
So if you asked me, there is no serious conflict.
Regarding the 'fact' mentioned previously, I happen to perceive it as such. You don't have to agree with that.
Namely the subjective nature of an individual's expectations and perception of what sounds pleasing in audio.
And that's the beauty of pluralism in a forum.
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Medical Doctor: How do you feel today?
Patient: Well, I need a certificate I am alright.
Medical Doctor: Tests the patient's blood pressure and communicates the result to his patient.
Your blood pressure is 180mmHg/95mmHg. We must treat that.
Patient: But, but, ... I am feeling OK. In fact, I can say, I have never felt like this...
Note: Blood pressure is one thing which can be too high and yet, an individual does not feel anything is bad. That is why, it is called "The silent killer".
This can happen to a person's health, let alone to other far less important things.
Patient: Well, I need a certificate I am alright.
Medical Doctor: Tests the patient's blood pressure and communicates the result to his patient.
Your blood pressure is 180mmHg/95mmHg. We must treat that.
Patient: But, but, ... I am feeling OK. In fact, I can say, I have never felt like this...
Note: Blood pressure is one thing which can be too high and yet, an individual does not feel anything is bad. That is why, it is called "The silent killer".
This can happen to a person's health, let alone to other far less important things.
My my this turned into quite a quagmire. Allow me to feed the situation more by saying after swapping out the smt caps on that 'shrill' sounding board for the same caps used on the other board the tonality became identical. However the smt resistors still sounded 'thin' with smaller 'bass'.
Since then ive taken a closer look at the said melf resistors, stripped its shell and and noticed the inner tube is less diameter than the TH resistor of the same claimed rating. Coincidence? Ill let you experts decide
Since then ive taken a closer look at the said melf resistors, stripped its shell and and noticed the inner tube is less diameter than the TH resistor of the same claimed rating. Coincidence? Ill let you experts decide
Well jan, since youve been here long enough, its my evaluation according to my subjective experience. 😉
Most probably because you knew they were there.
Somehow doubt you could pick them in a DBT test
Please explain how can a small body diameter difference turn sound into shrill and thin.
I very very very much hope you are aware that this is a cartoon, not a Physics or Electronics explanation 🙄
That's what happens when you label everyone as deaf owners of poor systems. I'm just thankful you didn't play the Bose card! ☢️
Did you talk about "The Edge" from U2?* to change sound to thin and shrill you need to lose Bass by a measurable and easily detectable amount, at least a couple dB, increase mid-highs by at least same amount and even better if said boost affects significant, pre-existing distortion.
All 3 parameters are easily measured, and repeatable.
That is not "subjective" but a real difference.
Now replacing one type or brand of resistor by another, where measurements do not change, no "sound" change is present or possible.
Unless resistor is horrible, like, say, 2 pins pushed in a potato at the proper distance to achieve expected resistive value.
But then it is not "a resistor" in the Electronic Components category but, as mentioned above, "a vaguely resistive behaving device"
"Air" and "holography"????
Gimme a break!!!!
FWIW, "the "thin and shrill" words are not the problem by themselves, they MAY describe a real, very audible difference.
I work custom making and modding amplifiers for Musicians, they use those words all the time because that´s their "language", they will definitely NOT talk Hertz and dB.
But then, if we start measuring, we DO find significative differences.
One practical example: a friend of mine, John Frondelli, runs a most famous Service shop in NY; his customers are the Top of the Top, everybody from Prince to Rolling Stones to local Churches to even US Navy and CIA ... plus most NY Recording Studios, Radio and TV stations, the works.
One famous customer is Irish rock band U2. They typically park a semi truck at the door once or twice a year, they unload all their equipment for checking and setup, to do whatever maintenance is needed before enrolling in a Worldwide Tour.
It´s well known by Fans (who love minute details about Stars) that lead Guitar player prefers and always uses a small Fender Princeton amplifier, he owns many (if anything , for backup) , but one stands up and is most used, specially for recording.
So I asked him if next time he could find any difference in it.
At first he answered "doubt so, all are store bought, Factory stock, if I repair anything I use exact same part as was there, all according to Factory schematic" .... but I (and a few others) insisted, so he finally put the "special" one , open chassis, side by side with another of the "regular" brothers and started checking parts one by one, from input jack to speaker one.
Plus measuring voltages, using fresh sets of tubes on both, even comparing wiring layout, comparing and ticking parts one by one with a Sharpie pen, both at each chassis and paper schematic.
And then he found it:
In his own words: "one .02uF coupling capacitor was actually .01uF, I didn´t notice at first because it was factory installed, not a hack/mod/repair job.
He didn´t tell me which one it was, there are only two of them, one after the second triode, the second before the Cathodyne PI; I suspect the first one, but not certain.
Both feed 1M grid resistors, cutoff frequency is either 8 Hz (original) or 16 Hz ("wrong" one) , both well below Guitar frequencies and doubly so considering the lightweight 10" speaker inside a small open back cabinet, audible difference could not come from that alone (and we are talking a 2:1 part value difference, not silly brand or colour)
But then I remembered that´s not the single audible function they perform. 😱
These amplifiers are always driven balls to the wall, and an often ignored side effect is that grids receiving dozens of Volts (hey, anything above 2V peak) rectify signal, create a negative voltage which strongly changes bias, changes waveform and duty cycle, change gain (hence: compress).
So standard "built in compressor/waveform changer" has a time constant of 20 milli seconds, the "wrong" one half as much, clearly tracks intricate solos much faster and THAT is noticeable, specially for a Musician using those amps every other day for years (decades?)
So yes, parts can "have sound", speaking with precision MODIFY sound (thinking they have an inherent sound is ludicrous or at least naïve) .... but that involves a gross part VALUE difference.
And being in a place where they can make a difference.
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