Designing for higher H2 is not so difficult. My understandings of the NAIM range are that there was an attempt to increase H2, reduce H3 and maybe add that magical H4 as well.
Other issues such as phase shift, IM and top end are more related to the fastest/slowest device in that pivotal area - the voltage amp.
Like it or not, the NAIM was attempting to create an 'effects box', so dismissed by the purists who in fact would never buy one preferring to buy on specs. (Unless of course they succumbed to the marketing hype so redolent in our industry!)
HD
Other issues such as phase shift, IM and top end are more related to the fastest/slowest device in that pivotal area - the voltage amp.
Like it or not, the NAIM was attempting to create an 'effects box', so dismissed by the purists who in fact would never buy one preferring to buy on specs. (Unless of course they succumbed to the marketing hype so redolent in our industry!)
HD
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How much is the pre-amp responsible for the Naim sound, and how much is really down to the NAP 140 here ?
I have read hints that the push to use a Naim preamp was to ensure the input to the power amp was suitably bandwidth limited, no ultrasonics to cause cross-conduction or trigger output instabilities when not using an output inductor. And of course, it helps to sell pre-amps when you insist they are required for a good system. Perhaps profit margins were pretty good on the pre-amp too.
I agree Hugh, some 'effects' are critical here for the Naim sound. Not unlike the AKSA sound 😀
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That's totally right.
Here someone has measured typical Naim traits. The distortion as would be guessed is low. When this low we are almost talking homeopathy to say is a big colouration. Seems to me people change horses in these arguements to fit their point of view. Bandwidth limiting seems more likely as to why.
Here is a speculation. If you had a broken NAP250 I suspect it would still sound like an NAP250 if Hypex modules inserted and PSU retained. It might have a tonal change, PRaT should be similar. If you are use to this " rythme " it's what the amplifier is about, the tonality is easilly changed by source, preamp and speakers.
Naim, NAPs, Naits, distortion and bias-current settings
I have a couple of dozen of those, from the 70's. They were Clevite, if I remember. I have an RCA data sheet from that period, but not the Clevite one. If you have it would you mind posting it, please?
Brian.
Thanks Nigel.
I have the Savantic and RCA data sheets, but not the original Clevite. At least I think it was Clevite; the logo looks like it represents that.
Both state ft of 10MHz.
Agree. In this thread alone, Naim and JV have been accused of several short-comings and manipulations and JV has received offers for how he could have done it better. A bit too late. 😛
It isn't bandwidth limiting.
One of the first times I talked with Julian he said approximately this. " The total amplification chain had the bandwidth it required. Using other makes of preamp might offer less reliability and cheat the owner". After many years of finding Naim to be nearly 100% reliable I feel he was justified in saying " cheat the owner ". Julian said that by having the duties of bandwith limiting shared the circuitry was the least complex it could be with the benefits that brings ( I think my memory is right ). That was the time when complexity was considered as an evil, Hiraga led that concept. As the brand became more known no one wanted to own a hybrid combination. Julian did say a very odd thing one day. He said the NAP250 had enough reserve power to project a Linn Isobarik bass drive unit 10 metres ( he said 30 feet ). I have no idea why he said that. It was in connection with keeping things safe and how duty of care was something we would by law be forced to accept as time went on ( true ).
One myth of the hi fi press was that Naim used no current limiting. Not true.
One myth of the hi fi press was that Naim used no current limiting. Not true.
In that respect, yes, the Naim gear is designed not to minimize amplifying anything we can't hear. So having a pre that is flat from dc to light is not a good idea in Naim's view (sort of obvious but when it comes to audio common sense often takes a back seat). The "control bandwidth" of the amps is very high.
I quite like the "So Nice" one. It has that "in your face" intimacy of the voice and the snappy midrange that is characteristic of Naim.
I have worked in the domestic hifi industry for at least 10 years and sold a lot of esoteric
equipment I have had very early naim equipment in my hand and when i say early i mean hand folded chassis and hand loaded boards and wiring Naim was recomended to me in this way I know a guy that makes very good amplifiers. The man that said this was Ivor T Effinbrun "Mr Linn Sondeck" please forgive the spelling used to make him cups of tea when he visited the shop I worked at
But in all the years i have worked with hifi "over 45" I have never heard such a rediculous comment on how a piece of hifi sounds over U tube and a pc
Trevor Latala
equipment I have had very early naim equipment in my hand and when i say early i mean hand folded chassis and hand loaded boards and wiring Naim was recomended to me in this way I know a guy that makes very good amplifiers. The man that said this was Ivor T Effinbrun "Mr Linn Sondeck" please forgive the spelling used to make him cups of tea when he visited the shop I worked at
But in all the years i have worked with hifi "over 45" I have never heard such a rediculous comment on how a piece of hifi sounds over U tube and a pc
Trevor Latala
Agreed +1
What? You three can't hear the difference between a snappy sound and a dull sound in a video? Give it a go.
Okay, what do you suggest to listen to. I heard the two previously mentioned Youtube presentations and could not even finish listening, it sounded so cr@p. That said all Youtube are not junk, some are pretty good. I would hate to give any equipment a performance mark based on how it sounds on Youtube.
I've learned here that the original manufacturer has been Sescosem, now part of STMicroelectronics. Their logo is depicted in the pics at this thread's beginning.
Best regards!
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Perhaps the only real option is to use internet music files to compare, A vs B and that kind of thing. Clearly we never really know how something sounds until it's in our hands.
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