If you've already got a 21" bandpass box, and you're happy with it's sound and extension, then it seems to me the most cost effective answer is just build more identical ones until you're satisfied with the SPL. You can flatten the response when you have more headroom.
I don't think you're going to get much utility from experimenting with stronger drivers in that box. Knowing Rog, it's probably pretty well designed to start brushing up on excursion limits and the beginning of port compression at max power. Throwing in stronger drivers and more power might not get anywhere.
As far as a TH that might meet your needs, look at the OTHORN. Designed for 21" drivers too. Might work well with what you've got if you wanna give that a go. That thing really loves a super strong 21.
I don't think you're going to get much utility from experimenting with stronger drivers in that box. Knowing Rog, it's probably pretty well designed to start brushing up on excursion limits and the beginning of port compression at max power. Throwing in stronger drivers and more power might not get anywhere.
As far as a TH that might meet your needs, look at the OTHORN. Designed for 21" drivers too. Might work well with what you've got if you wanna give that a go. That thing really loves a super strong 21.
Like Brian I am doubtful of the X1 spec. 130db 30hz from the X1 can't be 2pi. That said, it looks like a good design though and it would work well for OP. To me, the real question is BP vs TH. There's no substitute for hearing them yourself. Rent/borrow/etc and check it out.
From there, once you get a good cabinet design mated to a good woofer, the only thing you can really do to improve things is to add more cabs and it sounds to me that OP might be at that point.
I simmed the Beyma in the OTHORN and did not like the results. The OTHORN is picky with drivers.
From there, once you get a good cabinet design mated to a good woofer, the only thing you can really do to improve things is to add more cabs and it sounds to me that OP might be at that point.
I simmed the Beyma in the OTHORN and did not like the results. The OTHORN is picky with drivers.
I got a bit interested in the cubo as the OP of the thread mentioned it.
seem to be some hybrid between bandpass and TH which makes it more forgiving on drivers compared to most TH's. Even the biggest one of them are rather small at 367 liters (cubo sub).
The designer has not published much graphs around it because he thinks is it's not that important, what could one expect from this cab compared to say, a keystone? people seem to like it, has anyone here heard them? how's the transient response?
seem to be some hybrid between bandpass and TH which makes it more forgiving on drivers compared to most TH's. Even the biggest one of them are rather small at 367 liters (cubo sub).
The designer has not published much graphs around it because he thinks is it's not that important, what could one expect from this cab compared to say, a keystone? people seem to like it, has anyone here heard them? how's the transient response?
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There are a number of threads here that provide HornResp design parameters and performance measurements of various Cubo builds.
See links below for example:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...-ss15-18-driver-other-compact-18-designs.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/202415-there-smallish-prosound-tapped-horn-35-80hz-8.html
I build a lot of loudspeakers, and I mostly listen to EDM. (Started going to shows back in college, in the early 90s, when they still called them "raves.")
In my experience, you have a couple of options to get good sound for EDM type shows:
1) Bring a metric ton of amplifiers and cabinets, and use relatively inefficient vented boxes. This is the route that PK Sound goes, but this route only works if you bring a LOT of power. For instance, PK occasionally uses a hundred thousand watts or more. This can wreak havoc on the building itself; at Electric Daisy Carnival their stage died when they killed the power. Same thing happened when I saw a PK setup in Los Angeles for Excision.
2) Bring a metric ton of efficient boxes, and less power. This is the route that Pure Groove Systems goes, using Danley subs. The upside to this option is using less power, the downside is that the Danley boxes are ridiculously large. IIRC, Pure Groove Systems only used eight sub boxes at Electric Daisy Carnival. For comparison's sake, the PK rig at Electric Daisy Carnival used about eight times as many boxes.
I know this is a long post, but my main point here is that there is no good answer to the question that you posted. The right solution for YOU is going to depend on how much you want to spend and how many amps you already own. If you are not prepared to bring a LOT of power, don't even consider a vented box or a bandpass box. If you ARE prepared to spend a LOT of money on amplification, a huge pile of vented boxes can give a few horns a run for their money. There is no way of getting around Hoffman's Iron Law.
hey guys see all that subs designs and sensitivity of them but think that x1 beat them all with peak 135 db with only 800 watt AES driver also is more low frequency response, Fohhn Audio PS-9 with 2500 watt AES driver with same style of cabinet (copy of x1) has 145 db... so i realised that might be most powerful cabinet....
FWIW, I think that frequency response is pretty important, not only the in-band response, but the response about an octave above what the working passband is going to be. For example, if the intent is to cut off the sub at 80Hz, what does the response look like up to 160 Hz?
On transient response, you can get an idea of what that might be like by looking at the group delay graph for the sim. Bear in mind that it's the change in GD across the effective passband that's really important.
dont know if that is really or not but if that is true bandpass is king... i have also 2 logitech z906 and put subwoofers of them down from a rugged low table that was like parking for my subs and open volume i saw that power of ported subs was 2 times biger and more low donw from table something small earthquake. At some point i see design of X1 and understand that looks like with my patent of table and subs so i decide make that.... And results now are really great.... Maybe some time meke e mesurment of my sub 21" X1....
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