Hey guys what sub would be better for hip hop songs and Electro House ?
Cubo (tapped horn), X1 (bandpass), TH18 (tapped horn) or RCF SUB 8005-AS (Bass Reflex). Also which of them has better sound bass (clean) ?
Cubo (tapped horn), X1 (bandpass), TH18 (tapped horn) or RCF SUB 8005-AS (Bass Reflex). Also which of them has better sound bass (clean) ?
Never heard any of these designs but I would go with the RCF if it were me and I had the money ($4k). Cubo should not even be on your list IMO. The X1 is a viable DIY option but less documented than many DIY designs such as TH18. I would also look at one of the most documented TH subs there is, the Keystone. Far easier build than TH18 too.
Cleaner bass is subjective but I believe TH is cleaner than BR and many agree.
Cleaner bass is subjective but I believe TH is cleaner than BR and many agree.
The X1 is according to Rog(the designer) able to put out 131.5 dB's cont SPL within it's very flat passband from 30-35 hz to about 100, many recommend that you cross it at 80 hz however as they don't like how it sound over it. This is quite good for an enclosure of 373 liters volume. How it compares to other cabinets is hard to say as people tend to measure differently so the numbers can be a bit misleading unfortunately.
I'm interested in how it compares to for example the Keystone, which according to the(possibly missleading) numbers is 66 liters larger, put out less SPL and doesn't extend as low, and at least in europe requires more expensive drivers compared to the X1 cab... I think there is more to it and that these figures are missleading however.
The x1 cab is well documented on other parts on the internet, just not very documented here on diyAudio
I'm interested in how it compares to for example the Keystone, which according to the(possibly missleading) numbers is 66 liters larger, put out less SPL and doesn't extend as low, and at least in europe requires more expensive drivers compared to the X1 cab... I think there is more to it and that these figures are missleading however.
The x1 cab is well documented on other parts on the internet, just not very documented here on diyAudio
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What's wrong with the Cubo?
I agree that the Keystone is probably the easiest one to build.
thanks man for your time really 🙂. Nice that design Keystone i have already one X1 sub with demesions for 21" driver Beyma 21PW1400Fe. It is extream strong big earthquake move my 70 kg speakers on it... but i feel like lost some frequencies (bass is like hide very deep) not like reflex clean, Do i will heve same problem with tapped horn or it is sounds good ??? Also it really low and good (Keystone tapped horn) for hip hop, trap music ? About RCF SUB 8005-AS i have some plans, same and from another powerful sub Coda SCP-F...
I had a look at the X1 specs. It appears to be a parallel-tuned 6th order bandpass design, with a lower Fb of 42Hz, which to me should define the start of its usable frequency range, as cone excursion increases significantly beyond Fb. Yes, corner loading and floor-loading will decrease this Fb a bit, but it being decreased down to 30 Hz is a bit of a stretch. The box also doesn't look like one that's braced enough internally for one that I'd expect to see over 130 dB from. Then there's also the issue of port compression at high SPL levels, a characteristic of basically all vented and bandpass systems.
That final point is where a good TH design really shines. Done right and there is little or no compression at low frequencies at high SPL levels. Turn it up and the TH simply goes louder, up to the point that the driver it's using can deliver, of course. It's actually more likely to compress slightly at upper bass frequencies than it is down at Fb at high SPL levels. And the driver's motor is usually located right in the mouth of the TH, which enhances its cooling. It's not uncommon to be running a TH at pretty high levels, then when you check the driver's magnet, it's only a bit warm, compared to toasting hot if you tried to achieve similar SPL results with a vented or bandpass alignment.
I think that other things may need to be considered however, like transportability and what other equipment is going to be used with these subwoofers, before a final decision is made.
What sort of processing are you using on that sub? For best results, bandpass and tapped-horn designs not only have to be filtered properly, but the main speakers need to be delayed a bit, depending on the subwoofer's design parameters. For example, my POC3 TH which is a 40 Hz design requires about 7.5ms of delay be added to the main speakers.
Do you have a link to the plans for your X1 with a 21" driver? I'd like to see some design parameters about it, e.g. front and rear volumes, tuning frequencies, etc.
Interesting, Where did you find the excursion graph? I know you can't rely only on the sensitivity as excursion can go way up before actual sensitivity starts to decrease, which puts safe HPF above the actual -3 dB of the frequency graph. Thanks for your time to enlighten us!
Also one needs to consider the transient response of the cabinet, whichever TH or bandpass is best I don't know, I just know I love the transient response of properly designed FLH's.
Koutrou, if you want clean bass, I think you might be interested in front loaded horns, as I think the 'clean' you mean is a combination of good transient response and low distortion. Transient response for separation between instruments/sounds and low distortion for non fatiguing sound.
I don't need to look for it - significantly increased excursion below Fb is a feature of all high-order alignments.
Are there any measured impedance curves available for X1 builds? Those will give you the best idea of where Fb actually lies.
The answers really depend on the characteristics of the BP or TH in question, and you've got to look at the GD across the passband of the subwoofer.
I'm sorry for the noob'ish question, but what does "Fb" mean? I thought you meant f3 which seem to be 31 Hz in the case of the X1 cab. Whatever the Fb is, how can you measure it from a cab where only the sensitivty graph is published?
Fb = lowest resonant frequency. 6th order BP designs have two resonance frequencies. TH designs can have two or more.
For a pro audio sub, it's unlikely that F3 will be much below below Fb. Hence my curiousity at a design that indicates 42 Hz Fb and 31 Hz F3.
Unfortunately no, you can't tell Fb from a sensitivity graph.
Am I right in assuming that the Fb is the point where the excursion is at its lowest just before going haywire at the lowest spectrum of the frequency plot?
If you add a HPF, say 3-4 hz below that point to keep the driver within the excursion limits(at a given voltage, where the rest of the frequency dependant excursion is within the limits as well as about the same excursion as below Fb) declared by the manufacturer, you should be safe right? (together with the voltage limiter offcourse)
Hope I didn't seem confusing now🙂
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Put out the wadding of my subwoofer and now the sound is much better 🙂 really nice sub....i did e test tone of hertz and results (without wadding) is good power at 25hz very big power at 30hz same 40hz extream power 50hz, 60hz to 80hz enough good power and 80hz to 100hz good but not like other frequences..... with wadding i had very big power from 20hz to 30hz and extream power from 30 to 60hz... but until there after 60hz nothing....so the problem was the wadding...
My sub: View image: 20150702 140400
dimensions: View image: 1 , View image: 6 , View image: 7
Also i have cross it at 20hz high pass and 125hz low pass active... which tapped horn do you think is best for frequency response 30 hz and up with good semsitivity ? or do you think that dont need so low bass for hip hop songs and its better 40hz and up frequency response ? for example cubo produce 30hz and up but what is peak SPL ?
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Trap isn't that deep... around 50hz! maybe 45hz?
what do you think of de labhorn? it can go down to 27hz, it needs 2*12" lab12, so I think it will cost about the same of your 21" driver! theres a post on the forum about it.
what do you think of de labhorn? it can go down to 27hz, it needs 2*12" lab12, so I think it will cost about the same of your 21" driver! theres a post on the forum about it.
When I think quintessential trap, this is what I think of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNV3QIbdXeI
And I know for a fact quite a few of those tracks have basslines between 35-45. Not that it's going to sound bad if you can't dig that low- it'll probably sound just fine, but the bandwidth certainly isn't underutilized by any means.
Labhorns are intended to be used in stacks of 4 minimum to make a full horn mouth and really shine. You won't get the full efficiency and bandwidth out of 1 or 2. Not that you can't use less and EQ to taste, but that's the idea anyways. I feel like they've fallen out of favor though. They're tried and true for sure, but a fairly dated design (though not necessarily outdated). Pretty complicated to build and suffer from driver cooling problems due to the small, sealed rear chamber. Reportedly the sound gets wonky above about 70hz, meaning you have to either live with the sound or add kick bins.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNV3QIbdXeI
And I know for a fact quite a few of those tracks have basslines between 35-45. Not that it's going to sound bad if you can't dig that low- it'll probably sound just fine, but the bandwidth certainly isn't underutilized by any means.
Labhorns are intended to be used in stacks of 4 minimum to make a full horn mouth and really shine. You won't get the full efficiency and bandwidth out of 1 or 2. Not that you can't use less and EQ to taste, but that's the idea anyways. I feel like they've fallen out of favor though. They're tried and true for sure, but a fairly dated design (though not necessarily outdated). Pretty complicated to build and suffer from driver cooling problems due to the small, sealed rear chamber. Reportedly the sound gets wonky above about 70hz, meaning you have to either live with the sound or add kick bins.
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ohh ok I never look a this kind of trap! do you have titles? just 1 or 2 after this youtube will give me some more! 😛
yeah lab horn are only fully efficient when they're stack (4 minimum)... I didn't read all the post and don't understood all but you what to build a bigger setup? or just have more deep bass? maybe a T-line can be another option, simple to build.... I read on the internet that t-l should be good for pa use...
yeah lab horn are only fully efficient when they're stack (4 minimum)... I didn't read all the post and don't understood all but you what to build a bigger setup? or just have more deep bass? maybe a T-line can be another option, simple to build.... I read on the internet that t-l should be good for pa use...
Baauer & RL Grime @ Buku New Orleans, United States 2014-03-22 Tracklist / Playlist - 1001 Tracklists
Here's the complete tracklist. Damn good set.
Here's the complete tracklist. Damn good set.
labhorn is nice but is not enough big spl need many of them... for example my x1 21" shake everithing around should take 137 - 138 db peak from 28hz to 100hz, but i want to make and 1 more powerful low with big spl.... if there is something better than x1 i would be very happy otherwise i will do more experiments with hybrid x1 cabinet.... for example Fohhn Audio PS-9 is a big 21" x1 with some change to dimensions and also with a powerful B&C 21IPAL and handles 145 db from 28hz to 110hz.....
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