Hi Zenmod,
Have you by any chance tried Ciare's YC 903 product? It appears to be black paint, for the damping of the cloth suspension and appears to remain sticky over time. I looked for other information from the parent company, but unfortunately, I could not find anything. Do you have experience with this product?
Thanks, regards
Marcello
nope
reason why I ended with DIY solution is simple - I couldn't find any specific info ( durability and pliability) for none of myriad articles I could find on-line, and none of them being expensive
hate to buy two dozens of them and play guessing game
now, I don't care - my Rat Glue thingie behaves perfect
reason why I ended with DIY solution is simple - I couldn't find any specific info ( durability and pliability) for none of myriad articles I could find on-line, and none of them being expensive
hate to buy two dozens of them and play guessing game
now, I don't care - my Rat Glue thingie behaves perfect
OK, thanks a lot.
I asked you because it is still a product that is found in Europe, and it is all in all low cost.
For the rest I understand that once you have found a practical solution, which works and is effective over time, it no longer makes sense to ask yourself the problem.
Thanks,
Marcello
I asked you because it is still a product that is found in Europe, and it is all in all low cost.
For the rest I understand that once you have found a practical solution, which works and is effective over time, it no longer makes sense to ask yourself the problem.
Thanks,
Marcello
Glad this thread popped up.
I have a pair of SRM12b drivers on their way to me.
When I inquired about work that was done to them the response was:
“Thank you for your interest, yes, these are original Tannoy diaphragms, and original Tannoy cones and voice coils.. the surrounds are factory correct new old stock cloth surrounds that I’ve had in my inventory for years and use for my clients that want to save their old Tannoy SGM-12 and SRM-12 studio monitiors”
I took the plunge…hoping for the best!
I have a pair of SRM12b drivers on their way to me.
When I inquired about work that was done to them the response was:
“Thank you for your interest, yes, these are original Tannoy diaphragms, and original Tannoy cones and voice coils.. the surrounds are factory correct new old stock cloth surrounds that I’ve had in my inventory for years and use for my clients that want to save their old Tannoy SGM-12 and SRM-12 studio monitiors”
I took the plunge…hoping for the best!
FYI/FWIW, did some research many years ago as to what the correct replacement was for Altec's, et al cloth surrounds
Air Products and Chemicals, Inc.'s 'airflex 5100' toxic clear dope and not surprisingly it's this C.P. Moyen WS-1291-A latex replacement commonly available/used by the various vintage reconers.
Air Products and Chemicals, Inc.'s 'airflex 5100' toxic clear dope and not surprisingly it's this C.P. Moyen WS-1291-A latex replacement commonly available/used by the various vintage reconers.
Hi guys, yesterday I picked these monsters:
They suppose to be K3808 but are marked K3809.
First I need to measure T/S (the coil resistances are 5.2 and 9.5 on both) but fs most likely is going to be high.
I am not going to make a huge cabinets like Westminster or Jensen Imperial upside down
but I have never done any OB so maybe it's time. I am not going to add any floral patter on it at this time
Found on internet:
I was thinking about using Papa's active crossover instead of the passive one.
I think I would need your advice Aleks during this process 🙂
They suppose to be K3808 but are marked K3809.
First I need to measure T/S (the coil resistances are 5.2 and 9.5 on both) but fs most likely is going to be high.
I am not going to make a huge cabinets like Westminster or Jensen Imperial upside down
but I have never done any OB so maybe it's time. I am not going to add any floral patter on it at this time Found on internet:
I was thinking about using Papa's active crossover instead of the passive one.
I think I would need your advice Aleks during this process 🙂
you have entire know-how on linked pages in my blog
just read it
buzz if yo're in doubt
in case that I didn't see you posting again here, just send me a PM
..... regarding xover for Tann itself, you'll hardly make anything better than simplified original one for Pepperpot DC
if going OB with helper, you leave Tann FR ( no high pass) so all you need is xover for bass helper
just read it
buzz if yo're in doubt
in case that I didn't see you posting again here, just send me a PM
..... regarding xover for Tann itself, you'll hardly make anything better than simplified original one for Pepperpot DC
if going OB with helper, you leave Tann FR ( no high pass) so all you need is xover for bass helper
and yes- as far as I remember - K3808 and K3809 are identical drivers - sole difference one being part of original Tann speaker boxes, second one being sold as driver unit
Thank you Aleks, I can always count on you 🙂 The idea for bi-amping is based on the use of FW F2J for the tweeters. There is no other amp in my humble experience with such sweet and detailed highs.
facts:
LP for bass cone is pretty straightforward
HP for tweet is having autoformer ( easily got with level in active xover) but you also must implement notch filter ( around 3K) and Newman compensation ( usual thing with compression drivers - 6db/oct decline of SPL with frequency rise)
all of that needs to be implemented in active xover for Tann
in your boots - if you like F2J so much, I would keep passive xover ofr Tann ( though, not cheap if made properly) and drive it fully with F2J
I'll try tonight to find papers about proper active Xover for Pepperpot Tann, so you can use recipe - implementing details in one of your making
LP for bass cone is pretty straightforward
HP for tweet is having autoformer ( easily got with level in active xover) but you also must implement notch filter ( around 3K) and Newman compensation ( usual thing with compression drivers - 6db/oct decline of SPL with frequency rise)
all of that needs to be implemented in active xover for Tann
in your boots - if you like F2J so much, I would keep passive xover ofr Tann ( though, not cheap if made properly) and drive it fully with F2J
I'll try tonight to find papers about proper active Xover for Pepperpot Tann, so you can use recipe - implementing details in one of your making
Newman compensation - I didn't think about it, it seems the active crossover would be much more complicated than I thought and I don't want to do any DSP.
But the xover to work with F2J would be different from the usual one, wouldn't it be? And I'm not sure if I want to do that, I don't have tools and experience with designing xovers. Another concern is that F2J for 15'' woofers might not have enough current to prevent it from oscillating around fs - I mean not enough damping factor, it would be too boomy, right? :/
Anyway, together with the drivers I got nice DIY xovers with delicious ingredients: some Mundorf Supreme caps, copper foil inductors for woofers, Jensen PIO etc 🙂
First I need to measure T/S, then the cure, then... 🙂
Aleks, if you find time to post some recipes to make a passive xover I would be grateful. Then I would try it with the other amps I have. BTW I would like to add some helper woofers as you did 🙂
But the xover to work with F2J would be different from the usual one, wouldn't it be? And I'm not sure if I want to do that, I don't have tools and experience with designing xovers. Another concern is that F2J for 15'' woofers might not have enough current to prevent it from oscillating around fs - I mean not enough damping factor, it would be too boomy, right? :/
Anyway, together with the drivers I got nice DIY xovers with delicious ingredients: some Mundorf Supreme caps, copper foil inductors for woofers, Jensen PIO etc 🙂
First I need to measure T/S, then the cure, then... 🙂
Aleks, if you find time to post some recipes to make a passive xover I would be grateful. Then I would try it with the other amps I have. BTW I would like to add some helper woofers as you did 🙂
Aleks, your tutorial is great and I have no question apart from the rat glue recipe, 3 coats on top, 2 on the bottom, but how to dilute it with acetone, probably you haven't measured the proportions but decided on the viscosity, could you compare it to something pls? Where it would be between: water, blood, olive oil, pancake syrup, ketchup, I think it's not "thicker" than ketchup? 🙂
and BTW here is the XO I got, it seems someone decided to go 12dB/oct with the tweeter
and BTW here is the XO I got, it seems someone decided to go 12dB/oct with the tweeter
as I said - Dammar , especially Kohinoor, no dilution needed
Rat glue - viscosity ........say as thinnest possible Yogurt ...... have no other recipe because I didn't make solution per parts, more like eyeball approach
how to dilute it - take small glass bottle with decent cover/screw ; small jar with metal top is OK
pour some rat glue inside ( yeah, nasty business, do it somewhere outside to avoid gluing everything, or you'll end like Gusztav
pour some thinner, close the jar with cover, leave it for 12hrs, no need for mixing it manually; you can shake it few times during these 12 hours
if you see some rat glue not diluted on bottom, add some thinner, leave it again
when you see entire rat glue is properly mixed ( no visible leftover on bottom), add some more thinner and that's it
see https://www.zenmod.in.rs/another-ta...n-3-previous-episodes-cumulative-with-finish/
now - xover if you're going passive xover route - be aware of fact that tweeter autoformer is absolutely needed for all 12" and 15" Pepperpot drivers ; result of autoformer action, in "all flat" setting is that there is 20% voltage level increase (that being +1.5db) for tweet ( ref. to input signal level) which is absolutely crucial to have tweet linear with bass driver , after Newman compensation
I know it's easy to say that if one is having custom winder around ( as I am) but that's the fact; there are numerous option and iterations of xover for 12" and 15" Pepperpots around, but when I see that there is no autoformer on board, I know that is simply take money and run article
for schematic (which is nothing else than just slightly altered few values in original Pepperpot Tannoy xover) see enclosed
autoformer is "nothing else" than 2.5mH choke (air core, fattest possible wire, mine is made of 2mm Dia ) with additional 20% of windings
there is a pic of recently made pair, I didn't insist too much on high power Rs, simply knowing that boxes are not going to work with myriad of watts .....
Rat glue - viscosity ........say as thinnest possible Yogurt ...... have no other recipe because I didn't make solution per parts, more like eyeball approach
how to dilute it - take small glass bottle with decent cover/screw ; small jar with metal top is OK
pour some rat glue inside ( yeah, nasty business, do it somewhere outside to avoid gluing everything, or you'll end like Gusztav
pour some thinner, close the jar with cover, leave it for 12hrs, no need for mixing it manually; you can shake it few times during these 12 hours
if you see some rat glue not diluted on bottom, add some thinner, leave it again
when you see entire rat glue is properly mixed ( no visible leftover on bottom), add some more thinner and that's it
see https://www.zenmod.in.rs/another-ta...n-3-previous-episodes-cumulative-with-finish/
now - xover if you're going passive xover route - be aware of fact that tweeter autoformer is absolutely needed for all 12" and 15" Pepperpot drivers ; result of autoformer action, in "all flat" setting is that there is 20% voltage level increase (that being +1.5db) for tweet ( ref. to input signal level) which is absolutely crucial to have tweet linear with bass driver , after Newman compensation
I know it's easy to say that if one is having custom winder around ( as I am) but that's the fact; there are numerous option and iterations of xover for 12" and 15" Pepperpots around, but when I see that there is no autoformer on board, I know that is simply take money and run article
for schematic (which is nothing else than just slightly altered few values in original Pepperpot Tannoy xover) see enclosed
autoformer is "nothing else" than 2.5mH choke (air core, fattest possible wire, mine is made of 2mm Dia ) with additional 20% of windings
there is a pic of recently made pair, I didn't insist too much on high power Rs, simply knowing that boxes are not going to work with myriad of watts .....
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Zen Mod, you are my hero. You've provided more details than I expected. Thank you for that!!
Regarding autoformer: I'm not sure if I don't have the original one from the Super Red Monitor XO. I need to check it.
I've found this article about an active crossover for Tannoys DC:
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy86.htm
but the author is using opamps which we don't like, don't we? 🙂
Using LTSpice (after measuring the speakers and creating RLC equivelent) I could grab the voltage curve and replicate it in the active crossover.
If the surround cure is going to be successful I am going to ask you some questions about the OB with bass helper, but this is subject for another story 🙂
*
Regarding autoformer: I'm not sure if I don't have the original one from the Super Red Monitor XO. I need to check it.
I've found this article about an active crossover for Tannoys DC:
https://www.hilberink.nl/codehans/tannoy86.htm
but the author is using opamps which we don't like, don't we? 🙂
Using LTSpice (after measuring the speakers and creating RLC equivelent) I could grab the voltage curve and replicate it in the active crossover.
If the surround cure is going to be successful I am going to ask you some questions about the OB with bass helper, but this is subject for another story 🙂
*
you can mimic those funny (OP) triangles with JFet buffers, Pa made plenty of iterations in last years there in Pass Labs Forum (where I'm Furniture)
anyhow, I'm Geezer, read - lazy to fight with more than one amp, and I'm completely happy using passive xover and just one amp
if you go ( probably already did that) on my blog and type "Tannoy" in search, you'll pick all necessary details how to resurrect your Tanns
when you done with that, buzz me and I'll send you plans for proven MLTL box***; I like OB (which I have/had) but did resort to boxes, simply because I needed to move my OBs from specific position in room and now in broader space I need either to augment boards or to use separate amp for bass helper, and I'm lazy for both
well, maybe not lazy but using my experimenting time for making new amps and preamps and whatnot, while with speakers just taking already proven and easier routes
***was paying for MJ King's software licence for few years, made several projects and sharing with people but not in open space; never made money with these plans nor I intend
aha - original Tann autoformer is good for start - certainly better than resorting to poor "just 2.55mH choke" scenario; though, when you have opportunity to exchange it for proper air-choke autoformer, you'll get big pay-off
again - original Tannoy team (Fountain and other guys) made helluva job with Pepperpot xover schematic - problem was only in penny-pincher department of factory and maybe even yesterday's standards - what's good enough quality of parts....
edit: I didn't had a look at that schematic ( active Tann xover) in years .... now I see that there are used inverting OP cells; anyhow, with knowledge collected from linked web page, it's certainly no big deal to replicate it with JFet buffer cells, taking in account different approach - discrete JFet buffer cells are not inverting
anyhow, I'm Geezer, read - lazy to fight with more than one amp, and I'm completely happy using passive xover and just one amp
if you go ( probably already did that) on my blog and type "Tannoy" in search, you'll pick all necessary details how to resurrect your Tanns
when you done with that, buzz me and I'll send you plans for proven MLTL box***; I like OB (which I have/had) but did resort to boxes, simply because I needed to move my OBs from specific position in room and now in broader space I need either to augment boards or to use separate amp for bass helper, and I'm lazy for both
well, maybe not lazy but using my experimenting time for making new amps and preamps and whatnot, while with speakers just taking already proven and easier routes
***was paying for MJ King's software licence for few years, made several projects and sharing with people but not in open space; never made money with these plans nor I intend
aha - original Tann autoformer is good for start - certainly better than resorting to poor "just 2.55mH choke" scenario; though, when you have opportunity to exchange it for proper air-choke autoformer, you'll get big pay-off
again - original Tannoy team (Fountain and other guys) made helluva job with Pepperpot xover schematic - problem was only in penny-pincher department of factory and maybe even yesterday's standards - what's good enough quality of parts....
edit: I didn't had a look at that schematic ( active Tann xover) in years .... now I see that there are used inverting OP cells; anyhow, with knowledge collected from linked web page, it's certainly no big deal to replicate it with JFet buffer cells, taking in account different approach - discrete JFet buffer cells are not inverting