System tuning vs Perception and Finding Neutral

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OK, I subscribe to a more scientific approach to the idea of what SQ is...In a perfect world a Razor flat system measurement at listening position probably would interest me. etc etc bla bla bla....Perfect flat is not achieved in our rooms (mastering studios control rooms etc) but a best as possible of maybe +/-1.5db in a really critical listening environment? +/-3db elsewhere? I dunno...whatever is possible is fine and not my issue. We use measurement microphones to tune systems. A microphone is not the ear, and there are enough differences to start a whole, other, debate lol....non the less...my point is this! Why wouldn't I be better off, tuning my system, aiming at as flat as possible, using my ear.....instead of a microphone....my thinking is that everyone has there own personal "frequency response" and that with practice....you would achieve an even more natural system FR, than a microphone could....

Maybe using a signal generator?

I can't be the first person to have thought of this and I am curious to where this discussion goes.
 
And perhaps, as done with car seat adjustment in luxury vehicles, you could have the settings stored for each listener. As long as listening is a solo pursuit.
It might be painful to youngsters when the treble is turned up for age related loss.

Modern hearing aids are frequency compensated.
Until you reach that stage of hearing loss, maybe better to accept flat speaker response.
Imagine going from your personally adjusted listening room to a concert hall - would this be non-hifi because it was not adjusted to your hearing?

In reality, a flat response is not essential to good listening, rather that the response does not exhibit peaks and troughs.
 
Oh Lordy me - the idea of flat a freq response is only part of the 'sound'

With the advent of dsp units in home hifi systems, it's becoming essential to understand what happens in the listening room so the best advice I could offer is to read about and learn about the basic 'room acoustic parameters' and what is involved in the actual measurement of them - there really isn't any 'short-cuts' but it's not at all difficult, just unfamiliar in 'hifi' terms.

An example - you may achieve a reasonably flat freq-response with the help of a dsp, tone controls, etc but bass energy (for example) has a bad habit of continuing to bounce around the room far longer than mids/treble and is bass energy is slower to be absorbed - there are standards about the decay rates at different frequencies and volume levels too

Welcome to the world of 'room acoustics' - it'll be part of the rest of your life!
 
What you are referring to is technically the spectral decay of the system+room and the q of the room and the rt60.

The spectral decay would like to be even as possible with a rt60 of some number I cannot recall...in a perfect world. Any more perfect and we might end up in an anechoic chamber lol


The reason why I ask the question that I did is because I intend to use my system for mastering....I can't imagine that my ears personal response isn't coloring the sound in someway....humans generally have this coloration due to similarity of ear construction but maybe its more unique than I know....It would seem to me that if I could null out my own personal ears FR that I could here the signal a little more neutral and make slight better eq choices in the studio...

It is commonly understood, at least here at DIY that a response devoid of strong peaks and nulls is more important that have a completely neutral response
 
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Yeah, but I get confused by all those 'technical terms' and try to keep things simple (for my simple mind!)

Rt30 is about the limit here! Gave up on the limp mass bass traps and starting on the Acoustic Fields BDAs - successfully completed Tim Perry's 'leanfusers' in styrene and thick paint - it all takes more time than you think, eh!
 
There are some tips that were shown to me by a person who judges SQ audio competitions. They are pretty simple, just showed me a curve that displays a 15db increase centered at 60hz that plummets at 250hz, flat from there to around 16k, then dropping off, using pink noise.

A free RTA app for a common smartphone works great.

After that it’s just nitpicking details to personal preferences, and it seems to be a near perfect in-car response for all music.
 
Thats pretty far off from
I subscribe to a more scientific approach to the idea of what SQ is
...you can't use some random RTA app that doesn't have settings for 1/3rd octave reading either. You're all over the place...plus I have one of my peers in my ear telling me I can't trust my minidsp u-mik and here you come talking about a smartphone mic...lol!
 
Sounds like someone got really lucky with the curve, gain and system - doesn't happen too often.

Yeah, Mastering. You picked the most difficult. With recording, you generally use a nearly all direct sound so over-damping is 'the norm' as Ethan Weiner' says - with Mastering, you have to get everything right, especially the acoustics - it's so much more difficult, expensive and time consuming.

And then you have to choose which area, and genre(s) to specialize in and 'tune' your studio to suit.

All the best with your endevours.
 
Pardon me, I thought I saw a mention of a car somewhere.
That and just the question regarding “razor flat” had lead me to believe you were starting with the basics.

I would imagine that the industry uses several, different environments in the process of mastering recordings these days.

Good luck in your endeavors.
 
What i learned from a hig level mastering engineer i know is that for them it's mainly translation to the real world that counts, so they tend to use flat response speakers so they can predict how it will sound on different coloured speakers. Perfectly flat speakers need a good room and that is the biggest investment for a professional mastering engineer. More than his gear of listening system.

The most popular speaker system now with hi level mastering engineers is the Kii Three BXT system designed by Bruno Putzeys (Hypex/Purifi) where they use high engineered drivers, dsp and dedicated amps to get a neutral system in almost any room. But a good acoustic neutral room helps surely.

I installed a Kii Three BXT in an old italian Pallazo for a rich friend in Como (Italy), and have to say they are even in that very bad acoustic room full of marble and polished hardwood surfaces they do sound very neutral due to the software and layout of that speaker. He uses it as hifi system off course.

To build a similar system diy will take a lot of knowledge and reseach i think. Far beyond the possibilities of +99% of the diy crowd. It's an expensive system (25K€+vat) but one of the few that i think is worth it.

But mastering can be done on far less good speakers. I did master (low budget) records that were released and did sound good for their purpose on average tannoy reveal monitors also in my living room. The main thing is that you know your speakers and room inside out and know how they will translate to other systems. And it's often better to use lesser systems that you know inside out than the best that you hear for the first time... The top mastering engineer that i know took a month off when he installed his Kii Tree BXT to learn his speakers by listening all day to his favorite music and mess with it with his gear. Only then he felt ready to do his job with it in the quality his customers are used to.
 
Makes sense...but I will say that the Dutch 8c is definitely more popular with the mastering engineers...Having cardioid to create your directivity is pretty nifty, both designs are getting directivity down pretty low. Reducing reflections raises resolution. Exactly why Horns and waveguides dominate. Its hard to get directivity as low as those designs without using cardioid though...with current software available to diy we cannot model damping material very well so designing a passive cardioid would be challenging unless planning on using no damping material at all. The Kii is active cardioid....I've entertained the thought of sticking rear sealed woofers on the sides of my mid boxes to try and achieve this result but I am a noob to designing on that level so, until then....

The mastering system I am designing is geared towards increasing resolution via large amounts of direct energy. Using a large system, nearfield, should help quiet a bit and the large high efficiency drivers will have no compression of the signal