I have a very sound theory on how to simply switch between 4:3 and TRUE 16:9 (meaning no resolution loss) with a single switch. This could cost less than an anamorphic lens and will definately be better than switching between two lenses.
Extra Parts You'll Need to Buy:
VGA Switching Box ($15)
Second D/A converter for you LCD (varies, could be really cheap)
And you'll have to already have a certain projector setup:
1) A PC based system. No standalone video components (unless they are going through the PC). Just as long as all the video signals eventually come through a single VGA cable. This generally means DVD Rom w/ DVD software, and/or a TV tuner card.
2) Your DVD software allows you to display anamorphic video at fullscreen. This means that on a 4:3 display, everything would look stretched vertically. RealMagic forces a letterbox when you want widescreen on 3:4 monitors and I don't think PowerDVD allows it either, but I could easily be wrong. I do know for a fact that Creative Labs' software for Dxr cards allows it. I have no idea if HDTV tuner cards allow it, but I don't see why not. Non HD tuner cards don't apply since everything will be 3:4 anyways.
3) Your using a bare LCD hooked up to a D/A coverter (the device that gives it a 15 pin VGA input). If you don't know what that is, or your using a store bough LCD moniter or a panel projector - don't bother trying this. If your using a laptop LCD w/ a D/A converter to use 15 pin VGA, your set.
4) The D/A converter has knobs (or buttons) to adjust the vertical and horizontal screen size. Some have them, and some are just fixed. You need one (actually two- I'll get to that in a minute) that has it.
Here's what to do. Buy a second D/A converter. Wire them both up to the screen. You may need to do some serious splicing and/or soldering. Think of it as a "Y" splitter for every single wire. I know it'd be tedious, but stick with me. Then use two VGA cables and connect the two D/A coverters to the two outputs on your VGA switching box. These boxes can be found at electronic stores (or online) for pretty cheap. Basically, they're meant so that you can hook up two monitors to the same PC and use the box to switch back and forth between the two. Now connect the source (a PC's graphics card) to the VGA switching box's input. If you have a 3:4 movie screen, read part 1. If you have a widecreen movie screen, read part 2.
1) Figure out the dimensions for 16x9 on your movie screen. Don't use a letterboxed movie because those are either 2.35:1 (very wide) or 1.85:1 (looks like 16x9 but it's a little less wide). Mark the dimesions with tape or a pencil or something. Then turn on your system with monitor "A" selected. Adjust the vertical size for the corrsponding D/A converter to fit the 16:9 dimensions. That's it. When you switch to monitor "B", you'll be back to 3:4 fullscreen.
2) Turn on your system w/ monitor "A" selected. Zoom in (by moving the projecter closer, adjusting the lenses, or whatever it is you do) so that the displayed image fills up the left and right edges of the movie screen. Then adjust the vertical size on your A/D converter so that the image fits the widescreen perfectly. Now switch to monitor "B" and lower the horizontal size on monitor B's D/A converter so that it makes a 3:4 proportioned image. That's it. Your done.
Of course you could take this a lot further. Instead of a cheapo VGA switching box (which will work just fine for me), you could rig something up that could switch the two sources via remote control. Then, if you could somehow buy or build a system where your movie screen switches between the two formats via remote, you could sync the two up. Anyways, that stuff is beyond me, but maybe someone here could do it.
Extra Parts You'll Need to Buy:
VGA Switching Box ($15)
Second D/A converter for you LCD (varies, could be really cheap)
And you'll have to already have a certain projector setup:
1) A PC based system. No standalone video components (unless they are going through the PC). Just as long as all the video signals eventually come through a single VGA cable. This generally means DVD Rom w/ DVD software, and/or a TV tuner card.
2) Your DVD software allows you to display anamorphic video at fullscreen. This means that on a 4:3 display, everything would look stretched vertically. RealMagic forces a letterbox when you want widescreen on 3:4 monitors and I don't think PowerDVD allows it either, but I could easily be wrong. I do know for a fact that Creative Labs' software for Dxr cards allows it. I have no idea if HDTV tuner cards allow it, but I don't see why not. Non HD tuner cards don't apply since everything will be 3:4 anyways.
3) Your using a bare LCD hooked up to a D/A coverter (the device that gives it a 15 pin VGA input). If you don't know what that is, or your using a store bough LCD moniter or a panel projector - don't bother trying this. If your using a laptop LCD w/ a D/A converter to use 15 pin VGA, your set.
4) The D/A converter has knobs (or buttons) to adjust the vertical and horizontal screen size. Some have them, and some are just fixed. You need one (actually two- I'll get to that in a minute) that has it.
Here's what to do. Buy a second D/A converter. Wire them both up to the screen. You may need to do some serious splicing and/or soldering. Think of it as a "Y" splitter for every single wire. I know it'd be tedious, but stick with me. Then use two VGA cables and connect the two D/A coverters to the two outputs on your VGA switching box. These boxes can be found at electronic stores (or online) for pretty cheap. Basically, they're meant so that you can hook up two monitors to the same PC and use the box to switch back and forth between the two. Now connect the source (a PC's graphics card) to the VGA switching box's input. If you have a 3:4 movie screen, read part 1. If you have a widecreen movie screen, read part 2.
1) Figure out the dimensions for 16x9 on your movie screen. Don't use a letterboxed movie because those are either 2.35:1 (very wide) or 1.85:1 (looks like 16x9 but it's a little less wide). Mark the dimesions with tape or a pencil or something. Then turn on your system with monitor "A" selected. Adjust the vertical size for the corrsponding D/A converter to fit the 16:9 dimensions. That's it. When you switch to monitor "B", you'll be back to 3:4 fullscreen.
2) Turn on your system w/ monitor "A" selected. Zoom in (by moving the projecter closer, adjusting the lenses, or whatever it is you do) so that the displayed image fills up the left and right edges of the movie screen. Then adjust the vertical size on your A/D converter so that the image fits the widescreen perfectly. Now switch to monitor "B" and lower the horizontal size on monitor B's D/A converter so that it makes a 3:4 proportioned image. That's it. Your done.
Of course you could take this a lot further. Instead of a cheapo VGA switching box (which will work just fine for me), you could rig something up that could switch the two sources via remote control. Then, if you could somehow buy or build a system where your movie screen switches between the two formats via remote, you could sync the two up. Anyways, that stuff is beyond me, but maybe someone here could do it.
.....
Okay -- first off, let me go ahead and say I did NOT understand conceptually what you are trying to do here....
So, having already admitted to talking completely out my butt...
I think the only way to have 16:9 with no resolution lost out of a 4:3 panel is optically... the pixels are fixed, they can not be compressed on the panel. if you stretch the image vertically and you dont compress it optically, then you just end up with a stretched image...
Please explain further because i seriously think i may have missed something...
EDIT: I read over it again, and now i think i know what you are trying to do... however... since the pixels are FIXED in the LCD, if you adjust the screen size through the D/A..will it not just rescale using fewer pixels? Which is basically just the same thing that has been happening (extra pixels blacked out)?
Please explain.
Okay -- first off, let me go ahead and say I did NOT understand conceptually what you are trying to do here....
So, having already admitted to talking completely out my butt...
I think the only way to have 16:9 with no resolution lost out of a 4:3 panel is optically... the pixels are fixed, they can not be compressed on the panel. if you stretch the image vertically and you dont compress it optically, then you just end up with a stretched image...
Please explain further because i seriously think i may have missed something...
EDIT: I read over it again, and now i think i know what you are trying to do... however... since the pixels are FIXED in the LCD, if you adjust the screen size through the D/A..will it not just rescale using fewer pixels? Which is basically just the same thing that has been happening (extra pixels blacked out)?
Please explain.
I should clear up something- when I say "A/D" converter, I'm talking about an analog LCD controller board.
About what you just said about losing pixels, you may be right. If LCDs have fixed pixels, then there would be loss, but not enough to lose any picture quality for DVDs (assuming your using a SVGA or XGA panel). Scaled down, the 720x480 pixels from the DVD source will still fit. If you talking about 1080 HD video, then you would lose image quality- but you would be losing some anyways unless you have a UXGA panel (and if you could afford that, you wouldn't be here). I don't know how much worse of a screen-door effect it might cause, but I figure at XGA it shouldn't be noticable.
Anyways, the main point of my post is to be able to easily switch between the two aspect ratios using a 4:3 panel. You can't do that with lenses unless you make some ridiculous contraption that switches actual lenses for you. And then of course you'd have to pay for the anamorphic lens. I think my idea is better. An even cheaper idea would be to solder on an electronic device on one controller that can switch between the two size setting. But if that's even possible to do, you'd have to be a serious expert to pull something like that off.
I'm gonna try my idea out. I think I'm going to make a projector panel with this:
http://www.earthlcd.com/SK2005R.HTM
The entire kit is $300. The reason that this panel w/ XGA native res and 150:1 contrast ration is so cheap is because it is very dimly lit. Of course that doesn't matter for me. If I ask them to add a second A/D controller and not send me the backlight inverter, it shouldn't be more than $350. I already have a VGA switching box, and the projecter would be next to a PC I already have, so it'd just be the $350. My one and only concern is getting the back cover of the panel off in order to make it transparent. If anyone reading this has tried this panel, please let me know.
About what you just said about losing pixels, you may be right. If LCDs have fixed pixels, then there would be loss, but not enough to lose any picture quality for DVDs (assuming your using a SVGA or XGA panel). Scaled down, the 720x480 pixels from the DVD source will still fit. If you talking about 1080 HD video, then you would lose image quality- but you would be losing some anyways unless you have a UXGA panel (and if you could afford that, you wouldn't be here). I don't know how much worse of a screen-door effect it might cause, but I figure at XGA it shouldn't be noticable.
Anyways, the main point of my post is to be able to easily switch between the two aspect ratios using a 4:3 panel. You can't do that with lenses unless you make some ridiculous contraption that switches actual lenses for you. And then of course you'd have to pay for the anamorphic lens. I think my idea is better. An even cheaper idea would be to solder on an electronic device on one controller that can switch between the two size setting. But if that's even possible to do, you'd have to be a serious expert to pull something like that off.
I'm gonna try my idea out. I think I'm going to make a projector panel with this:
http://www.earthlcd.com/SK2005R.HTM
The entire kit is $300. The reason that this panel w/ XGA native res and 150:1 contrast ration is so cheap is because it is very dimly lit. Of course that doesn't matter for me. If I ask them to add a second A/D controller and not send me the backlight inverter, it shouldn't be more than $350. I already have a VGA switching box, and the projecter would be next to a PC I already have, so it'd just be the $350. My one and only concern is getting the back cover of the panel off in order to make it transparent. If anyone reading this has tried this panel, please let me know.
Lifter, I posted a reply on the lcd panel thread about tearing apart a 12" laptop lcd screen. It was a toshiba, but it may be similar. If you want, I can take a few photos of the process and e-mail them to you. Also, what's the advantage of buying the $300 kit versus a $280 monitor? (I figure there's something I'm overlooking! 
) Is there more flexibility with that kit?
) Is there more flexibility with that kit?
So...what is the advantage to this system as compared to watching a wide screen movie with the black bars on top and bottom scaled to the resolution of the panel (assuming you are using a good line doubler or PC).... seems to me like this scenario:
in your idea:
you dont use some pixels on the top and the bottom
in normal widescreen viewing
same pixels at top and bottom are just blacked out.
might want to keep your wallet in your pocket for the moment?
in your idea:
you dont use some pixels on the top and the bottom
in normal widescreen viewing
same pixels at top and bottom are just blacked out.
might want to keep your wallet in your pocket for the moment?
What are talking about? What is "normal widescreen viewing"? If your talking about letterbox, then your wrong. Letterboxed telecines cut out pixels from the source. Anamorphic DVDs have a higher resolution.
An anamorphic DVD shows you a complete widescreen picture while using most of the 720x480 pixels for the actual image. It does this by compressing the image so that everything looks stretched vertically when viewing on a 4:3 monitor.
A letterboxed DVD is different. It has black lines taking up a good chunk of the 720x480 pixels, leaving only 355 horizontal lines for the actual picture. I made a picture that helps explain it, I'll post it later tonight.
An anamorphic DVD shows you a complete widescreen picture while using most of the 720x480 pixels for the actual image. It does this by compressing the image so that everything looks stretched vertically when viewing on a 4:3 monitor.
A letterboxed DVD is different. It has black lines taking up a good chunk of the 720x480 pixels, leaving only 355 horizontal lines for the actual picture. I made a picture that helps explain it, I'll post it later tonight.
yeah...
it still doesnt make sense to me... since the actual pixels on the LCD are fixed, and you still only get the pixels you use, which is also the case with letterbox....
I just dont see the point... awaiting diagram.
it still doesnt make sense to me... since the actual pixels on the LCD are fixed, and you still only get the pixels you use, which is also the case with letterbox....
I just dont see the point... awaiting diagram.
You see a letterbox source has a much lower resolution than an anamorphic DVD. It doesn't matter if your watching it on a monitor that has a 2,000x1600 resolution, your still only getting 640x355 (or 720x355, depending on what was used before it was transfered to DVD). The missing 65 horizontal lines of resolution are used to show you black bars. And if your watching a letterbox source with a 2.35:1 aspect ratio, then it's even worse.
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