Hi,
I have built quite a few full range speakers and have owned quite a few speakers. While they sound great on many materials, I find I just couldn't get it to sound right on old recordings.
For example, I am a big fan of Lobo and somehow I could not get his song to sound the way it did when I was much younger, listening to my dad's old car stereo. It just doesn't feel the same, somehow the 'mood' is just not there.
I reckon, what I need to help it achieve that mood, is some very coloured speaker. I've built a few markaudio and Jordan speakers, which unfortunately for this particular singer sounds too clear...
Do you have any recomendations for speakers that might fit this criteria, probably very mellow warm, and coloured...
Thanks in advance...
Oon
I have built quite a few full range speakers and have owned quite a few speakers. While they sound great on many materials, I find I just couldn't get it to sound right on old recordings.
For example, I am a big fan of Lobo and somehow I could not get his song to sound the way it did when I was much younger, listening to my dad's old car stereo. It just doesn't feel the same, somehow the 'mood' is just not there.
I reckon, what I need to help it achieve that mood, is some very coloured speaker. I've built a few markaudio and Jordan speakers, which unfortunately for this particular singer sounds too clear...
Do you have any recomendations for speakers that might fit this criteria, probably very mellow warm, and coloured...
Thanks in advance...
Oon
What you are describing is at least as much psychological as technical. We all have very strong links to things that we associate with childhood, and often we prefer them simply because they remind us of times that we look back on fondly.
Chances are that the speakers you have built are technically far superior to the setup in your dad's car from long ago. You are probably listening to the songs more like the artist had intended with your FR speakers. To get that "car sound" you should probably install a LPF somewhere around 8kHz, use an EQ to boost everything under 80Hz by 10dB & drive the speakers until they exhibit non-linear distortion. I am being 100% serious here, if the aim is to get back the experience from your childhood. Sadly, I think you might find that reliving some fond childhood memories may tarnish them forever. Some things are best left as fond memories.
Then again, your father's car may have been super nice with a world-class sound system. In that case, build a subwoofer, figure out how you want to power it & call it a day.
One other option is to use a current-feedback or transimpedance amplifier. These will help top give your FR speakers a warmer sound, but you also need to be careful about how much cone excursion you end up with at high sound levels.
Chances are that the speakers you have built are technically far superior to the setup in your dad's car from long ago. You are probably listening to the songs more like the artist had intended with your FR speakers. To get that "car sound" you should probably install a LPF somewhere around 8kHz, use an EQ to boost everything under 80Hz by 10dB & drive the speakers until they exhibit non-linear distortion. I am being 100% serious here, if the aim is to get back the experience from your childhood. Sadly, I think you might find that reliving some fond childhood memories may tarnish them forever. Some things are best left as fond memories.
Then again, your father's car may have been super nice with a world-class sound system. In that case, build a subwoofer, figure out how you want to power it & call it a day.
One other option is to use a current-feedback or transimpedance amplifier. These will help top give your FR speakers a warmer sound, but you also need to be careful about how much cone excursion you end up with at high sound levels.
"What you are describing is at least as much psychological as technical"
I wouldn't say at least psychological, I would say definitely psycological... 😉
It is not just limited to car stereo, I actually enjoy listening to those songs from a transistor radio more than a hifi system. Somehow newer systems tend to bring out the rest of the instruments more and distracts from the vocals. For example, slow Elvis songs tend to sound a bit funny if the drums are too prominent....
At these moment, I am considering a few option.
Fostex FE166 or 206? Can anybody comment on their sound? I already have the FE103e, but I understand the bigger ones sound different...
or possibly the old Corel speakers.
Oon
I wouldn't say at least psychological, I would say definitely psycological... 😉
It is not just limited to car stereo, I actually enjoy listening to those songs from a transistor radio more than a hifi system. Somehow newer systems tend to bring out the rest of the instruments more and distracts from the vocals. For example, slow Elvis songs tend to sound a bit funny if the drums are too prominent....
At these moment, I am considering a few option.
Fostex FE166 or 206? Can anybody comment on their sound? I already have the FE103e, but I understand the bigger ones sound different...
or possibly the old Corel speakers.
Oon
I am a Malaysian I know what you mean, those days the car stereo uses speakers such as Clarion(definitely), Coral, and Foster(maybe), all these speakers have higher distortions and the radio uses carbon resistors and polyester capacitors all these combinations will produce the sound(coloured sound) you are missing. Rather than building system that will sound like yester years, buy 2nd-hand car radio and speakers from the seventies and that will produce the sound you yearn for.
Hope you can get the sound you are looking for, I rather get an old Valve radio with new tubes and play on your full ranger you will the fabulous "old sound". I am listening to a full ranger driven by a 15watt (close to class A) chipamp sounds good to me, not that old sound though.
Hope you can get the sound you are looking for, I rather get an old Valve radio with new tubes and play on your full ranger you will the fabulous "old sound". I am listening to a full ranger driven by a 15watt (close to class A) chipamp sounds good to me, not that old sound though.
You need a small motor driver that has a high Q rating and a natural roll off around 10K. It will give you that nice rich, warm sound you remember as a boy. The only thing your can't reproduce is the volume of the cabin. Your listening environment is likely much larger and this will detract from that a lot so you might have to close your eyes and imagine a bit or sit closer to the speakers.
Hi TTan98,
Well, the one problem with your suggestion is they run on cassetes then, i don't think there are cassettes anymore today....
My dad's old speaker was a coral. I am using mostly DIY tripath (class D), although I have a tube amp as well.
I guess in many ways what you described is probably what I would like to go for. A good full ranger with tube amp.
The only trouble is, full ranger's have two types, high accuracy modern sounding types (Jordan, Markaudio are two that I have tried) and old type (Lowther, Fostek, Coral).
I already have the high accuracy modern type, now I am looking to get one of the older sounding type, warm, mellow, smooth....
What speakers are you using and what do you think of them...
Oon
Well, the one problem with your suggestion is they run on cassetes then, i don't think there are cassettes anymore today....
My dad's old speaker was a coral. I am using mostly DIY tripath (class D), although I have a tube amp as well.
I guess in many ways what you described is probably what I would like to go for. A good full ranger with tube amp.
The only trouble is, full ranger's have two types, high accuracy modern sounding types (Jordan, Markaudio are two that I have tried) and old type (Lowther, Fostek, Coral).
I already have the high accuracy modern type, now I am looking to get one of the older sounding type, warm, mellow, smooth....
What speakers are you using and what do you think of them...
Oon
I think you are pretty much hitting there, do you have any recommendations on any particular driver that fulfils this criteria?
I think other criteria might be a slight boost of around 500Hz compared to 1~3KHz, to give it a warmer sound. I am curious how does the q rating affect the sound?
Oon
It's how well damped the driver is. High Q = weak damping, may be underdamped on the bottom end; low Q = highly damped.
Try the TangBand W4-1320!
We compared this bamboo-coned driver with the titanium-coned W4-1337 and found that the 1337 version delivered a lot more detail, but the 1320 sounded more ambient.
If you're talking about "missing the mood" and "too clear voices", the TangBand W4-1320 might be exactly the driver you need!
You might consider building a speaker with both a W4-1320 and a W4-1337 with L-pads on both, so you can tune the amount of ambience (1320) and sparkle/detail (1337) anytime you want, according to what kind of music you're listening too and what mood you want to create at that moment.
Those two drivers sound very beautiful together (which is something we also tried when comparing them) and we are seriously considering building a pair of MTMW (the tweeter to enhance the off-axis dispersion, the woofer to help in the bottom end) speakers with both of them one day.
Isabelle
We compared this bamboo-coned driver with the titanium-coned W4-1337 and found that the 1337 version delivered a lot more detail, but the 1320 sounded more ambient.
If you're talking about "missing the mood" and "too clear voices", the TangBand W4-1320 might be exactly the driver you need!
You might consider building a speaker with both a W4-1320 and a W4-1337 with L-pads on both, so you can tune the amount of ambience (1320) and sparkle/detail (1337) anytime you want, according to what kind of music you're listening too and what mood you want to create at that moment.
Those two drivers sound very beautiful together (which is something we also tried when comparing them) and we are seriously considering building a pair of MTMW (the tweeter to enhance the off-axis dispersion, the woofer to help in the bottom end) speakers with both of them one day.
Isabelle
I don't think you can duplicate the sound you want from modern day components like you mention modern clean full ranger and Tripath uses components that will also give you a very "clean" sound. Amps from the 60-70's have a very "dull" and "warmer" sound because of carbon resistors and polyestor coupling caps.
I like to suggest you buy 2nd hand Coral from Ebay and also use 2nd hand home transistor amps(all car amp are transistors) from the 60-70's such Sansui or Pioneer or Monarch or even Luxman. These components will give you the sound "close" to what you want. Having said that I think it is a waste of time, you see the sound you heard was a combination of sound you heard and the atmosphere at that point in time, ie you and your family interacting(I am sure it is of very nostalgic one), that interaction/atmosphere cannot be duplicated. Furthermore even if you can duplicate the sound I think you will not use the set-up on a regular basis because it does not even come close to modern sound. After a while you will be "bored" with it. A valve amp and modern full ranger will give you a more lasting sound full of enjoyment for many hours.
I like to suggest you buy 2nd hand Coral from Ebay and also use 2nd hand home transistor amps(all car amp are transistors) from the 60-70's such Sansui or Pioneer or Monarch or even Luxman. These components will give you the sound "close" to what you want. Having said that I think it is a waste of time, you see the sound you heard was a combination of sound you heard and the atmosphere at that point in time, ie you and your family interacting(I am sure it is of very nostalgic one), that interaction/atmosphere cannot be duplicated. Furthermore even if you can duplicate the sound I think you will not use the set-up on a regular basis because it does not even come close to modern sound. After a while you will be "bored" with it. A valve amp and modern full ranger will give you a more lasting sound full of enjoyment for many hours.
The test we did with the TB W4 titanium and W4 bamboo was on a 1976 Technics SA-5460 Receiver by the way, but that is the most neutral home-amp we've got.
We also own a couple Sansui AU-555a's and I've used to own a Marantz PM7200 K.I. Signature Edition and both these amps sound a lot warmer and a bit duller than the Technics.
Since the W4-bamboo already gave a sound that was very ambient but not detailed enough for our liking, I'm pretty sure that driver will be a huge step in the direction you want, even on a clean amp.
If it still sounds too "clean" to you, you might consider getting an amp with a warmer sound to it (and sorry to disagree, but that has absolutely nothing to do with transistors or tubes, but only with the design of the amp itself).
The reason why I also suggested building a pair of speakers with both a W4-titanium and W4-bamboo in it with L-pads is because this will make it possible to tune the sound of the speakers from very very ambient (W4-titanium padded all the way down, only the W4-bamboo playing) to very very crisp and clear (W4-bamboo padded all the way down, only the W4-titanium playing) and everything in between.
This way, you don't have to worry to have a couple speakers standing around that you won't use much and eventually be bored with, but you'll have a couple speakers that can please you every day, because they can be tuned to your mood and music selection of that day...
Isabelle
We also own a couple Sansui AU-555a's and I've used to own a Marantz PM7200 K.I. Signature Edition and both these amps sound a lot warmer and a bit duller than the Technics.
Since the W4-bamboo already gave a sound that was very ambient but not detailed enough for our liking, I'm pretty sure that driver will be a huge step in the direction you want, even on a clean amp.
If it still sounds too "clean" to you, you might consider getting an amp with a warmer sound to it (and sorry to disagree, but that has absolutely nothing to do with transistors or tubes, but only with the design of the amp itself).
The reason why I also suggested building a pair of speakers with both a W4-titanium and W4-bamboo in it with L-pads is because this will make it possible to tune the sound of the speakers from very very ambient (W4-titanium padded all the way down, only the W4-bamboo playing) to very very crisp and clear (W4-bamboo padded all the way down, only the W4-titanium playing) and everything in between.
This way, you don't have to worry to have a couple speakers standing around that you won't use much and eventually be bored with, but you'll have a couple speakers that can please you every day, because they can be tuned to your mood and music selection of that day...
Isabelle
Hi Isabelle,
Thank you for your suggestion. I read the reviews for the tangband speakers you suggested. It looks pretty much like how you had described them. Definitely one of the speakers I would consider for my next build....
Oon
Thank you for your suggestion. I read the reviews for the tangband speakers you suggested. It looks pretty much like how you had described them. Definitely one of the speakers I would consider for my next build....
Oon
Perhaps having a cabinet that adds colouration would help - in most cars, the drivers are mounted on a plastic door interior panel. Lots of lovely resonances.
I think a pair of vintage speakers, classed as full-range(Maybe 8-12"...), would be worth a try. I got some from a charity shop, not much treble extension, not much low bass, but lovely warm sound, even on an open baffle.
I think a pair of vintage speakers, classed as full-range(Maybe 8-12"...), would be worth a try. I got some from a charity shop, not much treble extension, not much low bass, but lovely warm sound, even on an open baffle.
OK, I know I'm bumping another old thread but I'm absolutely intrigued by this. Are there full range drivers that have a warmer, smoother sound than others? Are Fostex drivers like this or was this a reference to older models? I've heard a B&W ipod dock as well as Bose computer speakers and found the sound so neutral, I had the impression the music had no color or taste to it. I'm even considering going with an inferior model like the Fountek FR88 (not the superior FR88EX model or even the more superior Fountek FR89). Also, can anyone comment on Fountek FR89 vs Mark Audio Alpair 7.3?
No contest.
When i saw the thread title, my 1st thot went to the Alpair6.2 paper.
dave
IIRC Mark Audio has a "vintage" sounding driver in the CHP-70 Gen2? Haven't heard that one though; also read good things about the Alp 6.2 that P10 mentioned.
Its likely you will prefer the sound of a nice tube amplifier. If possible have a listen to the Miniwatt N3 - not too powerful, but sounds sweet and doesn't sacrifice a lot of detail. The size is really compact too.
Its likely you will prefer the sound of a nice tube amplifier. If possible have a listen to the Miniwatt N3 - not too powerful, but sounds sweet and doesn't sacrifice a lot of detail. The size is really compact too.
The A6.2P hits the mark solidly for the vintage sound Mark was targeting for the CHP70.2.
dave
Hi,
I am the original poster for the thread. I suppose over the years this thread was formed I found out a few things.
You need to get a paper fullrange driver. I find the fostek too shouty for my taste.
I find when you I played some old cliff Richard songs from the 60s on my old antique Phillip radio with intact speaker on open baffle (well it wasn't very well sealed. The sound is magic. But not on later recordings.
I never got around to figure out the full details on what exactly is needed. But I suspect and a paper driver on an open or u baffle would be ideal. You don't need that much low end bass anyway. I reckon a small speaker would be better with a low power amp. You need it to sound good at low volume. Cliff Richard playing at 90db doesn't quite dig it. So speakers that only sound good loud won't work well. I suspect the recommendations by other posters on the markaudio might be fine...
I still can't get Lobo to sound right. Not the way I remembered it. He calls it his Beery sound. You generally don't want too much treble. Cymbals will detract you from the emotions of his vocals and drooning guitar. So a speaker with a rolled of high end and another poster puts it high q would be good, the speaker will be relatively undamped giving it a longer reverberations and making the sound thicker...
Last but not least, you need some candles and a good glass of wine to bring on that old nostalgic feeling.
Oon
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
I am the original poster for the thread. I suppose over the years this thread was formed I found out a few things.
You need to get a paper fullrange driver. I find the fostek too shouty for my taste.
I find when you I played some old cliff Richard songs from the 60s on my old antique Phillip radio with intact speaker on open baffle (well it wasn't very well sealed. The sound is magic. But not on later recordings.
I never got around to figure out the full details on what exactly is needed. But I suspect and a paper driver on an open or u baffle would be ideal. You don't need that much low end bass anyway. I reckon a small speaker would be better with a low power amp. You need it to sound good at low volume. Cliff Richard playing at 90db doesn't quite dig it. So speakers that only sound good loud won't work well. I suspect the recommendations by other posters on the markaudio might be fine...
I still can't get Lobo to sound right. Not the way I remembered it. He calls it his Beery sound. You generally don't want too much treble. Cymbals will detract you from the emotions of his vocals and drooning guitar. So a speaker with a rolled of high end and another poster puts it high q would be good, the speaker will be relatively undamped giving it a longer reverberations and making the sound thicker...
Last but not least, you need some candles and a good glass of wine to bring on that old nostalgic feeling.
Oon
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
I am convinced that a lot of the good qualities associated with
car audio (not a fan in general though) are due to the battery power source.
I am a fan of battery powered amps.
car audio (not a fan in general though) are due to the battery power source.
I am a fan of battery powered amps.
Hi. Describing the sound you're searching for, I'll really recommend the Monacor SP-205/8, see SP-205/8
I cut off the whizzer cone, mounted it as open baffle with a separate 90 dB sensitivity tweeter and a 1 UF capacitor.
I used an ikea-lack-thing as open-baffle frame, added two pieces of MDF with cutout for the Monacor's and tweeters, and that's it.
Sorry for the lousy pic's - hope you get the idea.
Regarding the sound: They make Hendrix and music from the sixties sound very pleasent and interesting - neither dull or or bright - but alive
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I cut off the whizzer cone, mounted it as open baffle with a separate 90 dB sensitivity tweeter and a 1 UF capacitor.
I used an ikea-lack-thing as open-baffle frame, added two pieces of MDF with cutout for the Monacor's and tweeters, and that's it.
Sorry for the lousy pic's - hope you get the idea.
Regarding the sound: They make Hendrix and music from the sixties sound very pleasent and interesting - neither dull or or bright - but alive
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