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Suppo Audio -- New Chinese EL84 PP amp for CHEAP.

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Unfortunately I am completely out of anything that could even be construed as speaker cable (don't even have enough cat5 laying around!) so I can't listen yet. I wasn't expecting this thing to get here so fast but I've got a new spool of speaker cable coming from monoprice that should be here tomorrow.

That being said, I fired it up and everything lit up like it was supposed to and no smoke or foul orders came from underneath.

Never, never power up a tube amp without load !! It will definitely go bad as it will destroy the output transformers.

When you want to see if it works you better connect an 8,2 or 10 Ohm resistor across the speaker terminals of both channels.
 
bigjppop - could you tell us the size of the OPTs in the amp (or at least the overall dimensions of the amp? It looks pretty small for a tube amp)? And please don't turn it on without a load on the outputs - that's really bad for a tube amp. The load helps control the tubes, without it they can oscilate and do very bad things.

The amps chassis is roughly 9x7x2.75 inches without the tubes and transformer on top. That stuff adds another 3 inches to the overall height.

Also, thanks for the heads up on running this without a load; I had no idea. It was only on for a few minutes so hopefully I didn't wreck anything!
 
I received my Suppo Golden Ear amp today and hooked it up to my Fostex FX120 bass reflex monitors. I am using a modified Playstation 1 as a CD player.

I have to say that my first impression of this amp is positive. The balance is a bit leaning to the right channel--it floats to the center and than slightly right of center. I am not sure why this is, but it could be the volume pot. I hope that's all it is.

Just on initial listening, this sounds better than a Trends TA-10 Class D amp, which I happen to like. It seems to have stronger bass, a deeper soundstage and decent tone. I think this amp has some potential to be a really good amp. It certainly has me tapping my toes.
 
The packing job is EXCELLENT (Joe and Suppo told me about the amp that was destroyed enroute to Australia and said he was beefing up the packing). Amp arrived double boxed with both the inner box and the amp itself totally encased in hard foam blocks. Absolutely no shipping damage.

Hi bigjppop, that would be my first amp. I was very impressed with the packing job second time around. I just posted my review. let me know what you think. Nic.
 
Well I've finally had a chance to sit down and do some listening to this little baby and I'm very impressed. I've had it running into my Omega 3's (93 db) and so far this little amp is helping these full-range/single-driver speakers do exactly what there supposed to do. Vocals and midrange really just jump out of the soundstage and are presented with clarity and sharpness (more on that later). With these particular speakers and in my room I don't find that the Suppo has a warm/tubey sound; it has a very accurate sound.

I'm using a Red Wine Audio iMod as my source and it was a pretty low output voltage (less than 1 V as compared to most CD players putting out 2V) and this has often been a problem for me depending on the amp I'm using. This source most definitely did not have a problem with this amp. My speakers are pretty efficient (93 db) and even on low voltage from the source, I couldn't get past 12 o'clock on the volume dial in my medium sized room. I have no worries on getting the power I need from the Suppo.

I listened mostly to single acoustic instruments (love my Yo-Yo Ma CDs!) as well as some small group stuff (also mostly acoustic). Everything was bright, clear, and accurate. Like I said above, great performance with both male and female vocals (James Taylor was great, as was Norah Jones). I know these are all strong points of single-driver speakers and I think if this kind of stuff is your cup of tea (like me) you won't be disappointed.

I love a slightly warmer sound in my setup so I'm looking forward to seeing how things go when everything breaks in a little more. Everyone has told me the Omega's need 100 hrs of break in and I'm not anywhere near there yet.

One thing that troubles me ever so slightly with this setup is the amount of base I'm getting; its pretty non-existent below about 55 Hz. Now, I can't blame the amp because my speakers are only rated to go about that low so I need to try it with another pair of speakers. In addition, I was listening in a far from optimal setup as my new speakers stands are still under construction (Bubinga and Curly Maple and with luck they should look pretty awesome when there done!). As such, I have to set everything up on a kitchen table and listen that way.

I'm planning on testing the amp tonight with my Quad 12L2's to see what happens. These speakers are much less efficient (only 87 db I believe) but they have much deeper base. I'm interested to see how 8 ish watts sounds into these little guys. The Quads are probably my most favorite monitor and are the main reason I'm interested in the new EL34 offering from Suppo. 35 wpc goes a lot better with 87 db speakers.

Anyway, so far this is a GREAT little amp, especially considering the KILLER price. I've received a great big box of Russian tubes that I plan to roll into this thing soon and hopefully see how it responds to some changes. I've also got some really nice NOS Westinghouse 6922's that I love and I'm hoping to try them in here as well. Also, just won 10 6CG7 RCA blackplates on ebay for almost nothing so those should be fun to try too. I know everyone loves the cleartops but we'll see how things go with these. As an aside, pretty much all the tubes I've purchased recently have come in lots of 8 or 10 so if anyone is interested in doing a little trading please PM me. I've got several Russian driver options (and soon those 6CG7's) as well as a couple of different Russian tubes for the output side.

Anyway, more to come.

P.S. I have discovered one more quirky thing with this amp; its impossible to turn off without unplugging it. I've got to open it up again (maybe tomorrow) and see if the switch is wired incorrectly. "Always on" is not a good feature for a tube amp! :) So, one more small strike when it comes to build quality. Couple loose screws, slightly bent/scratched chassis plates, and something wrong with the switch. Overall, nothing too serious. This is one of th first amps to come out of Suppo and I'm sure QC will improve down the road.

P.P.S. When I stupidly turned my amp on without speakers connected I was lucky and did not blow anything up. Thanks for the heads up!

P.P.P.S. Everything is still stock, mods are probably a couple months off for me. Too many projects on the table at the moment to mess with something that sounds good as is (except for the switch, got to fix that!).
 
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Well I spent some more time with the Suppo wired up to my little Quads and again... pleasantly surprised. Even with these guys only being 87 db sensitive, I still got some great performance. I had enough volume out of this little setup that I got the "turn it down" from the wife.

The Quads aren't the last word in bass, but they do go deeper than the Omega's I was listening to first. The Suppo handled the lower bass quite well, but it was the absolute best bass I've ever heard. A LITTLE loose, but not bad. The Suppo is definitely a better match to something like the Omegas, but if you've only got some "normal", i.e. not super efficient speakers, its still a pretty decent match. Mids and highs still sounded great, but I think the fairly small OPT in the Suppo might be a limiting factor in really getting big, tight, deep bass. I still haven't finished my Tubelab Simple SE with the giant Edcor OPT's (I'm a slacker!) but I would imagine you really need some decent/heavy iron to really get strong low bass performance.

When we get some more info on the Suppo EL34 based amp I'm seriously considering picking up one of those as a better match to the Quads.

So, next step is some tube rolling. Well, actually I should probably buckle down and get my stands finished, but its much easier to roll tubes than it is to drive myself over the wood shop. We'll see what comes first :)
 
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Suppo Audio The first product offering: Golden Voice EL84/6P15/6P14 Model GV-1

I received my amplifier very well packed. Connect speakers and let it burned for 48 hours. I connect a CD player and what a surprise. I never expected such a realistic sound. All the instruments sound natural. I can hear things I never hear before.Something like musicians breathing and fingers touching the instruments.
 
I might be able to add something useful here, having bought a few cheap Chinese amps over the last 2 years or so. (When I say "cheap" I mean sub-$400 amps.)

It won't be too hard to tweak this amp if one felt the urge, some other amps from China have much more difficult access to the PCB, so this is a plus IMO.

Nice to see it has 4 and 8 ohm speaker outputs on it. Also the company appears to have a tube tester to match the output tubes, good to see. It does appear that Suppo are selling a value for money product rather than "just another valve amp."

This Suppo amp appears to have a relatively decent schematic so no problem there. The power supply looks a bit unusual with 6 x 220uF caps on it, and no C-R-C network, can someone confirm that? If the power transformer is undersized it will get hot, the 80W spec on the webpage, I wonder if that's the transformer rating or the max power the amp will draw from the mains?

On a new amp its a good idea for peace of mind if you can measure (or get someone to measure) the B+ and heater voltages to make sure the power supply cap voltage ratings are OK and the heater voltages are within spec. Then measure the voltages across the R11 and R20 cathode resistors on the output tube pairs and calculate the approx power dissipation for the output valves. If all is within limits then good.

If I was still in the market, I would get one for sure. This one appears to be better value than anything else I have seen so far, and I would hope for nice sound. An excellent introduction to valve amps, or a base for an EL84 that you want to build. I cannot buy the parts alone to build this type of amp in my country for this sort of money. It would be interesting to know what B+ this amp is running. But buyer beware, as we have already seen, minor mistakes like the power switch not working, or maybe the amp has no earth connection, these are things to be expected from my experience. I regard the sub-$400 Chinese amps as a prebuilt kit that need to be checked over carefully. Be careful. I hope they sound really good.
 
On the other Suppo thread in this forum, http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/tube...st-offering-el84-push-pull-4.html#post2011402, jims measured the B+ on the power tubes and drivers. I can check the heater voltages later this week. I am enjoying listening to music with this amp too much to open it up again.

Taking advice from Joe, I just installed a pair of OS RCA 6FQ7 clear tops in place of a pair of Russian 6N1P-EVs, and there's just no comparison, even with the stock 6P15 power tubes still in place. Later this week, I am expecting a matched quad of new production Genalex Gold Lion EL84s. To date, I've replaced the input wiring with Teflon-insulated Silver wire, replaced the stock RCA connectors with Teflon-insulated RCA connectors, and I put in a 50k SMD resistor stepped attenuator.

Suppo EL84 Internal 8.JPG

This really opened up the sound and with the RCA 6FQ7 drivers in there, it is really rich sounding. I hear greater bass extension and definition, a focused image with spacing between instruments and vocals and a larger soundstage. I also bought a pair of OS Sylvania 6CG7 tubes to try out as well. These tubes are almost as tall as the EL84s.

6CG7 Sylvania 6FQ7 RCA cleartop.JPG

I plan to install the Ampohm PIO/Tin foil coupling caps over the holiday break along with a better IEC inlet, fuseholder and DPDT switch.

bigjppop, you'll hear a bit more bass extension with more driver break-in on your Omegas and stand mounting. This amp sounds really good with my Fostex FX-120 monitors, but with full range speakers like the Klipsch Forte IIs, it really sings with bass down to the 30's.
 
I plan to install the Ampohm PIO/Tin foil coupling caps over the holiday break along with a better IEC inlet said:
I think the IEC/fuse/switch setup will probably be my first mod (just to keep things safe). Caps will probably be next but I think I'll hold out for a bit until I get a better feel for the stock sound.

Also glad to hear that things will get better in the base department with a little time. I know its pretty much impossible to get low base out of my little monitors so I'm also looking at finding a decent sub. Anybody think I'd have a problem running a sub in parallel with my Omegas? i.e. running the sub speaker level and simply having two sets of speaker cable coming off the same binding posts on the Suppo?
 
Thanks for the link rhing, I did not see that thread, kind of made my earlier post redundant. Glad you guys are enjoying it. What a cool unit.

The power transformer is a bit of a worry if it's getting hot. Is it an issue or non-issue or being fixed by Joe with a bigger tranny? In my country, if I had to buy a bigger transformer that would easily be another $100 due to 50 or 60 for the tranny and the rest in shipping, taking the edge off the economical original cost of the amp.

bigjppop, I haven't used subs, can't answer your question. You can run 2 x 8 ohm speakers in parallel from the the 4 ohm speaker outputs on the amp (per channel) if that helps.
 
I dont know about the heat of the little Suppo Amp.

But dont worry about a little bit heat!

I can show you this two little Telewatt EL84 PP amps, more than 50 years old and no problem with the heat:

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


I could toast a piece of bread to golden colour on it, no joke!

And I remember a old story within Studer / Revox R&D: the boss, walking through the laboratory, touched transformers. When he did not burn the fingers (below 50 degrees celsius) the trannie was oversized.

Also not a joke!

Franz
 
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Ian444, everything gets hot, because the tubes get hot. I only notice the round power transformer cover getting hot, because the power tubes in front of it are emitting enough heat to warm it up. I've had other tube amps that heated up more, and had no problems with them.

The bigger issues are that bigjppop has had a problem with his power switch operating properly, the lack of a fuse and power connection to a DPDT power switch, and some of the quality problems with construction like loose screws inside a chassis. I had a faulty volume pot and had to repair it myself. I was going to post a review of this amp on another forum for people who aren't necessarily DIYers, but I wouldn't recommend this amp for people who cannot safely work on a tube amp themselves. 250 to 300 volts is nothing to play with. If Suppo addresses these quality problems, they'll have a fine amp to sell.
 
The bigger issues are that bigjppop has had a problem with his power switch operating properly, the lack of a fuse and power connection to a DPDT power switch, and some of the quality problems with construction like loose screws inside a chassis. I had a faulty volume pot and had to repair it myself. I was going to post a review of this amp on another forum for people who aren't necessarily DIYers, but I wouldn't recommend this amp for people who cannot safely work on a tube amp themselves. 250 to 300 volts is nothing to play with. If Suppo addresses these quality problems, they'll have a fine amp to sell.

I have to agree here. I've had a little extra time on my hands after the holiday madness (been putting together toy strollers and kitchen sets instead of amps) and have spent a little time with my Suppo. I still think it sounds great, but the quality control issues are starting to bug me a little more. I was finishing up my Tubelab Simple SE today (of course I am missing one more piece and have to go back to the store again!) and decided to dig around in the Suppo to see about fixing my power switch, adding a fuse, etc. It turns out that fixing that issue is going to be a little bigger chore than I thought. The switch itself is bent/twisted into place in order to "make it fit". As I took apart the chassis to get to the switch (and add in a couple of the screws that were missing when I received the amp) I noticed that pretty much every piece of the chassis is bent/twisted again, I assume, to "make it fit." Even many of the screw holes have been drilled out so that things that didn't line up, do now. All in all, even though the amp sounds great, unless you're a committed DIYer (why else would you be reading this) in its current form, the Suppo might not be the best choice for Grandma.

I recognize that I got one of the first amps off the line and I know that one of the reasons Joe offered this community such a great intro price was to help iron out some of the kinks so I'm hoping future amps are going to be better. If the price is right on Joe's next EL34 offering I'm still probably going to buy one of those.

Hopefully Joe is still reading this forum and can help tweak some of these issues. I'm sure the cost would be tiny to fix most of these problems and even if it added a few bucks to the final cost I'm sure you'd still have a very competitive amp. So, better fitting and thicker chassis plates, power switch moved slightly so that it doesn't need to be bent/twisted into place to fit behind the IEC socket, properly wired power switch, a fuse, and a couple of screws in the holes that were missing them. Any other suggestions from the community? Like I said above, still a great sounding amp; just needs a little TLC and it would be awesome!
 
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Hi, I got the old version and it was unfortunately damaged from transport. The toroid was loose in its case because the package apparently had been transported upside down. The weight from the toroid had drawn its bolt through the 2 mm thick chassis. The hole for the bolt was already drilled a bit too big which did not help. The toroid had to be taken out of its case but this could only be done in a destructive way. I also needed to remove the output transformers but their screws were covered by the case with the toroid. So it was not very service friendly.

Joe was very helpful and offered to send me a new revision of the amp. Of course I accepted his offer and waited patiently. Two weeks ago the amp arrived. I was away last week and haven't listened yet. I did power it on with resistors at the outputs and it becomes hot indeed. Not too hot but class T amps made me forget that amps can get hot !

It has 3 mm thick panels so no sagging of the upper panel and the build quality is better than the old version. The bottom panel is also 3 mm thick. It is also better layed out internally. The side panels are black now instead of the orange of the first model. The output transformers are better placed and the power transformer is a classic power transformer bolted down with 4 bolts.

So better build quality and a better chassis. I probably will drill several 4 mm ventilation holes in the chassis just after the valves/tubes and in the bottom panel as it is completely closed now causing heat buildup that can be avoided. Better convection for better longevity of the amp. It also lacks a power fuse which should be there IMO. No loose screws etc. like with the old model. If you have any questions about the differences please let me know as I still have the old one for comparison.

Bigjppop, I suppose the bent chassis your amp has is from transport as the older orange one I have has nice fitting panels despite the damaged toroid/case. It is quite a heavy amp and getting it to Europe without damage is hard to do. The first orange version was well-packed but damaged and the black one was even better packed but it also has some scratches from rough handling by the postal services. Although packed in very thick styrofoam the postal service managed to treat the amp so rough that the amp had gone through the styrofoam.
 
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Bigjppop, I suppose the bent chassis your amp has is from transport as the older orange one I have has nice fitting panels despite the damaged toroid/case. It is quite a heavy amp and getting it to Europe without damage is hard to do. The first orange version was well-packed but damaged and the black one was even better packed but it also has some scratches from rough handling by the postal services. Although packed in very thick styrofoam the postal service managed to treat the amp so rough that the amp had gone through the styrofoam.

Actually the packaging was some of the best I've ever seen in any product I've purchased; VERY WELL packed. So, no shipping damage. On my amp the top plate has sagged from the weight of the PT and the bottom plate is bent in the other direction because the OPTs don't quite fit. Anyway... Overall, packaging was awesome and at least for me, definitely not an area Joe needs to improve on. No worries there.
 
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