Has anyone heard anything from Suppo Joe?
The "coming in 10 days" note on the Suppo site regarding the new 6P15 V2 is I believe at least 10 days old now. I wonder whats up with this new amp?
The "coming in 10 days" note on the Suppo site regarding the new 6P15 V2 is I believe at least 10 days old now. I wonder whats up with this new amp?
So how do we determine the resistor value to set the bias for an EL84 running in pentode mode with 0.1uF coupling caps?
DiY
DiYer's joy: i slowly think about designing an amplifier full with design flaws and space inside the chassis and selling it very cheap. So all DiY can then enjoy modifacations, repairs and whatever they want. 🙂
DiYer's joy: i slowly think about designing an amplifier full with design flaws and space inside the chassis and selling it very cheap. So all DiY can then enjoy modifacations, repairs and whatever they want. 🙂
I'm trying to decide if Tubesteve has a specific grudge against Suppo Audio or just all things Chinese.
I know he was being sarcastic, but I actually really like the idea! For a beginning DIYer, I can't think of anything better than getting something cheap that right out of the box sounds really pretty good and has lots of room to tweek/modify/play/etc without the risk of destroying something really expensive. Building from scratch is great, but not everyone is at that skill level. With the Suppo, it works from the start (more or less) and so you have a baseline to begin from. For those starting out in this hobby, I can't think of anything better than something like this little amp.
Can you buy something better... of course you can. Can you build something better from scratch, of course you can. But just because YOU can build something better doesn't mean everyone else can too. So Tubesteve, lighten up, and let those of us that enjoy this little amp do so in peace. It's very unfortunate that you are so negative on these boards because it seems that you have a very solid understanding of tube amps and there design. You could be a very valuable asset here to those of us that are still learning the hobby. And by the way, this is a hobby and I highly doubt anyone would hang out here if they weren't interested in tweaking their gear, regardless of its country of origin and whether they bought, built, or stole it!
I know he was being sarcastic, but I actually really like the idea! For a beginning DIYer, I can't think of anything better than getting something cheap that right out of the box sounds really pretty good and has lots of room to tweek/modify/play/etc without the risk of destroying something really expensive. Building from scratch is great, but not everyone is at that skill level. With the Suppo, it works from the start (more or less) and so you have a baseline to begin from. For those starting out in this hobby, I can't think of anything better than something like this little amp.
Can you buy something better... of course you can. Can you build something better from scratch, of course you can. But just because YOU can build something better doesn't mean everyone else can too. So Tubesteve, lighten up, and let those of us that enjoy this little amp do so in peace. It's very unfortunate that you are so negative on these boards because it seems that you have a very solid understanding of tube amps and there design. You could be a very valuable asset here to those of us that are still learning the hobby. And by the way, this is a hobby and I highly doubt anyone would hang out here if they weren't interested in tweaking their gear, regardless of its country of origin and whether they bought, built, or stole it!
Last edited:
sarcastic
ofcourse it was sarcastic and also not: first, a world without humor, what is it like?
second, I never thought, i dont like suppo amps or so. actually, we are now working soon together to improve things. but there will be room for the DiYers, bcc. of costs reason. on the other hand, maybe its a thing to make a cheap and rather simple SE tube amp for beginners, to learn and to do something positive. i just remembered the old german "Radiomann", which was quite nice with a low voltage EF98 and a single transistor.
ofcourse it was sarcastic and also not: first, a world without humor, what is it like?
second, I never thought, i dont like suppo amps or so. actually, we are now working soon together to improve things. but there will be room for the DiYers, bcc. of costs reason. on the other hand, maybe its a thing to make a cheap and rather simple SE tube amp for beginners, to learn and to do something positive. i just remembered the old german "Radiomann", which was quite nice with a low voltage EF98 and a single transistor.
Experience and Motivations
I think that people need to stop to consider where Tubesteve is coming from here. As a Westerner who lived in China for 6 years working in the quality field, I think that I know exactly where Tubesteve is coming from. I do not detect any animus towards Suppo whatsoever. It is far easier and better when manufacturing any product, to take steps early on in the design and manufacturing process, rather than afterwards trying to rectify problems when the product is in the hands of the consumer, half way around the world.
I do like Chinese amps very much and am using two kinds now, but modified and upgraded, together with Chinese made dacs and other equipment. I have been delighted with them, although there have been some QC issues. China is an interesting place, and when one lives there, one sees some pretty astonishing things, like fake soy sauce, mooncakes made with paper, melamine mixed with milk and, of all things, fake eggs!
Tubesteve seems to make valuable contributions to this forum and his sincerity is evident in his willingness to help not only fellow forumers, but the manufacturer as well. I truly applaud this. To answer the obvious question, no, I do not know Tubesteve nor have I ever corresponded with him, but would hope that our paths might cross one day. I surely could benefit from his knowledge and experience.
I think that people need to stop to consider where Tubesteve is coming from here. As a Westerner who lived in China for 6 years working in the quality field, I think that I know exactly where Tubesteve is coming from. I do not detect any animus towards Suppo whatsoever. It is far easier and better when manufacturing any product, to take steps early on in the design and manufacturing process, rather than afterwards trying to rectify problems when the product is in the hands of the consumer, half way around the world.
I do like Chinese amps very much and am using two kinds now, but modified and upgraded, together with Chinese made dacs and other equipment. I have been delighted with them, although there have been some QC issues. China is an interesting place, and when one lives there, one sees some pretty astonishing things, like fake soy sauce, mooncakes made with paper, melamine mixed with milk and, of all things, fake eggs!
Tubesteve seems to make valuable contributions to this forum and his sincerity is evident in his willingness to help not only fellow forumers, but the manufacturer as well. I truly applaud this. To answer the obvious question, no, I do not know Tubesteve nor have I ever corresponded with him, but would hope that our paths might cross one day. I surely could benefit from his knowledge and experience.
I've lived and worked in China for several years as well and its things like fake soy sauce that make China great! 🙂 Now, admittedly, I didn't work in the QC field so maybe so guys are a little more jaded than I.
I do agree that Tubesteve can/does make valuable contributions to this forum, that's why I said I'd like to see more of the good stuff and less of the "that stuff is crap." I know humor/sarcasm doesn't convey well through an internet forum so if your comments are always meant as humor/sarcasm than I do apologize.
Anyway, back to making this little guy the best it can be for as little money as possible!
I do agree that Tubesteve can/does make valuable contributions to this forum, that's why I said I'd like to see more of the good stuff and less of the "that stuff is crap." I know humor/sarcasm doesn't convey well through an internet forum so if your comments are always meant as humor/sarcasm than I do apologize.
Anyway, back to making this little guy the best it can be for as little money as possible!
Sharing and Learning
Bigjppop,
No need to apologize to anyone, I think. I just did not read what Tubesteve was saying as negative nor does it seem reasonable to construe his candid and mostly factual statements as a negative predisposition towards this manufacturer or Chinese audio products in general. The fact is, that there are a number of issues with these and other products that have been identified by you and others. From a quality and manufacturing point of view, these quality issues, the changing specifications and lack of documentation are not particularly good things, to put it mildly. Tubesteve's comments are in fact helpful to people who do not have diy skills and might be expecting to receive a product that is ready to go and reliable at this time.
We are all here to exchange different points of view and learn from each other, as you have learned from Tubesteve in another post wherein there wasn't anything I would call overtly negative, but perhaps pragmatic. I look forward to reading more about this amp as it progresses through its iterations.
Bigjppop,
No need to apologize to anyone, I think. I just did not read what Tubesteve was saying as negative nor does it seem reasonable to construe his candid and mostly factual statements as a negative predisposition towards this manufacturer or Chinese audio products in general. The fact is, that there are a number of issues with these and other products that have been identified by you and others. From a quality and manufacturing point of view, these quality issues, the changing specifications and lack of documentation are not particularly good things, to put it mildly. Tubesteve's comments are in fact helpful to people who do not have diy skills and might be expecting to receive a product that is ready to go and reliable at this time.
We are all here to exchange different points of view and learn from each other, as you have learned from Tubesteve in another post wherein there wasn't anything I would call overtly negative, but perhaps pragmatic. I look forward to reading more about this amp as it progresses through its iterations.
I agree 100%. Tubesteve was kind enough to PM me and I learned that he is a German Engineer (hope you don't mind me sharing that little bit); that makes all his comments VERY easy to understand! 😀 I'm sure China is a personalized hell for a German engineer. Ordnung muss sein! In China es gibt keine Ordnung.
All I'm saying is that Tubesteve's many years of experience are highly valued here and I'd love to see comments like "this is crap and this is how you can make it better."
So Tubesteve, lay it on us... just make sure and finish your thought and let us know how we can improve what we've got. 😀
Hello,
I´d love the idea of buying a cheap "DIY amplifier kit". ( only the chassis, transformers, etc. without a pcb, sockets or any other components ).
As an experienced user you would be able to rebuild your amplifier pretty cheap.
George
I´d love the idea of buying a cheap "DIY amplifier kit". ( only the chassis, transformers, etc. without a pcb, sockets or any other components ).
As an experienced user you would be able to rebuild your amplifier pretty cheap.
George
cheap beginner amp
thanks a lot you guys for all your support !
I now grab the idea, to discuss with Joe, to go one step further. we will discuss about a simple starter amp ( SE) with a good sound ( not building a Ferrari for the beginners). i can imagine to start with a NOS chinese EL84
( 6P14) and a preamp tube, a 12Axx type or so. i think we should implement an extension to make PP amp from that, even switching from class A to AB with a negative control grid supply. then, the output transformers become an issue. (SE - to PP) The EL84 was first chosen, bcc. it's widely available, both, NOS and new.
the mains transformer may have different taps to satisfy different circuits as well.
this all can be premanufactured or made as a kit. for the kit we have to make a kind of working instruction with pictures.
the materials used dictates the price.
the most xpensive parts are the trannies , as you all know. but they can be reaonable cheap done with a good performance. i recently measured one with a nice 20Hz to 20KHz ( +/- 0.25dB), costing just 6 US$ each for EL84 PP,
and losses were fairly low.
your ideas / proposals are welcome!
Steve
thanks a lot you guys for all your support !
I now grab the idea, to discuss with Joe, to go one step further. we will discuss about a simple starter amp ( SE) with a good sound ( not building a Ferrari for the beginners). i can imagine to start with a NOS chinese EL84
( 6P14) and a preamp tube, a 12Axx type or so. i think we should implement an extension to make PP amp from that, even switching from class A to AB with a negative control grid supply. then, the output transformers become an issue. (SE - to PP) The EL84 was first chosen, bcc. it's widely available, both, NOS and new.
the mains transformer may have different taps to satisfy different circuits as well.
this all can be premanufactured or made as a kit. for the kit we have to make a kind of working instruction with pictures.
the materials used dictates the price.
the most xpensive parts are the trannies , as you all know. but they can be reaonable cheap done with a good performance. i recently measured one with a nice 20Hz to 20KHz ( +/- 0.25dB), costing just 6 US$ each for EL84 PP,
and losses were fairly low.
your ideas / proposals are welcome!
Steve
forgotten
pls. you may send suggestions to my email as well in my profile in order not to overload the forum.
pls. you may send suggestions to my email as well in my profile in order not to overload the forum.
A Good Approach
The other option is to buy an amp, Chinese or whatever, used, and assuming it has a nice case and decent iron, strip out all the other stuff and rebuild it. I did this with a sst of ASL Hurricanes, 200 Watt KT88 push pull, by gutting them and starting over. The cost was very reasonable and results I believe terrific in sound and enhanced reliability. Doing the same with another but new 845 amp.
With the unit under discussion here, if the case and iron is good, then the best bet might be to gut it and redo it in the same way. It seems quite the bargain anyway, and knowing the circuit and quality of the parts one would choose would seem to be better than relying on what the maker would just put in. A lot of these components, resistors and capacitors with odd name, can cost merely pennies apiece and are of unknown quality. It may be different with this amp, but most of these sorts of amps can really benefit by a fair amount of major gutting and rework.
Just my few pennies worth!
Funny that you would bring this up. It is exactly what I was thinking and there are some options arount at different price points. See for example, diyhifisupply and vt4c.
The other option is to buy an amp, Chinese or whatever, used, and assuming it has a nice case and decent iron, strip out all the other stuff and rebuild it. I did this with a sst of ASL Hurricanes, 200 Watt KT88 push pull, by gutting them and starting over. The cost was very reasonable and results I believe terrific in sound and enhanced reliability. Doing the same with another but new 845 amp.
With the unit under discussion here, if the case and iron is good, then the best bet might be to gut it and redo it in the same way. It seems quite the bargain anyway, and knowing the circuit and quality of the parts one would choose would seem to be better than relying on what the maker would just put in. A lot of these components, resistors and capacitors with odd name, can cost merely pennies apiece and are of unknown quality. It may be different with this amp, but most of these sorts of amps can really benefit by a fair amount of major gutting and rework.
Just my few pennies worth!
I'm liking these ideas... In fact, I like them enough to suggest starting a separate thread to see what kind of interest you can develop. I think this thread has a fairly limited viewership at this point but I bet you'd get lots of participation in a separate thread.
Wow, this thread has taken an interesting turn. 🙂 I was following along before but now I'm doubly interested. This should go well with my Forrest Mims book I'm reading.
hope
i hope, we can it make more attractive soon, also with all your welcome inputs!
Greetings from China.
Steve
i hope, we can it make more attractive soon, also with all your welcome inputs!
Greetings from China.
Steve
Those kits are available from China, along with a EL34 PP version. I had a link to the place that was selling them, but I seem to have lost it. They also had LOTS of other DIY tube stuff at very good prices. I don't remember their name, and searching with Google doesn't seem to turn it up.
Anyone know the place I am talking about?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.