Hello -
I reviewed the sheet. You've done some very nice work. However, I believe you have made it a bit harder on yourself than necessary. Within the notes tabs, the AMB people have provided quite a few recommended specific part numbers. You copied them nicely into your sheet as pictures. You can copy and paste the actual numbers from the website if you don't want to retype them. No need to search too hard. If you have trouble, let me know.
For the resistors, the KOA Speer seem to be a good value. Or, as previously mentioned, you can get the premium Vishay-Dale for a bit more money. I have used both. Although I don't have personal experience, I am sure that any of the other choices they provide will be excellent.
Here is a link to the KOA parts. I previously linked an example of the Vishay.
https://www.mouser.com/c/passive-co...rating=250 mW (1/4 W)&series=MF&tolerance=1 %
Cheers,
Patrick
I reviewed the sheet. You've done some very nice work. However, I believe you have made it a bit harder on yourself than necessary. Within the notes tabs, the AMB people have provided quite a few recommended specific part numbers. You copied them nicely into your sheet as pictures. You can copy and paste the actual numbers from the website if you don't want to retype them. No need to search too hard. If you have trouble, let me know.
For the resistors, the KOA Speer seem to be a good value. Or, as previously mentioned, you can get the premium Vishay-Dale for a bit more money. I have used both. Although I don't have personal experience, I am sure that any of the other choices they provide will be excellent.
Here is a link to the KOA parts. I previously linked an example of the Vishay.
https://www.mouser.com/c/passive-co...rating=250 mW (1/4 W)&series=MF&tolerance=1 %
Cheers,
Patrick
Good morning,
yep, dumb me, I left time in between starting the spreadsheet and continuing and forgot there are referrals on the AMB parts list which connect directly to vendors, only issue I am finding so far is with small resistors only available in big quantities so I will have to look elsewhere but if you could review the sheet so far I would really appreciate.
Grazie
yep, dumb me, I left time in between starting the spreadsheet and continuing and forgot there are referrals on the AMB parts list which connect directly to vendors, only issue I am finding so far is with small resistors only available in big quantities so I will have to look elsewhere but if you could review the sheet so far I would really appreciate.
Grazie
Hello -
re: resistors. I had linked two options. Is there a problem with those? Perhaps I am not understanding.
I checked all other parts. I added two columns into the sheet. Links are nice, but when you want to order parts, you can upload your spreadsheet to the website. If it has the part numbers, you don't have to type them again. 😀 I noted in comments my thoughts. Mainly, you have a few parts that are either in very low stock quantity or not in stock at Mouser. So, you will either need to wait or find substitutes. This is one of the frustrations of the global parts shortage. It (to me) seems to be harder to find electrolytic capacitors.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Patrick
re: resistors. I had linked two options. Is there a problem with those? Perhaps I am not understanding.
I checked all other parts. I added two columns into the sheet. Links are nice, but when you want to order parts, you can upload your spreadsheet to the website. If it has the part numbers, you don't have to type them again. 😀 I noted in comments my thoughts. Mainly, you have a few parts that are either in very low stock quantity or not in stock at Mouser. So, you will either need to wait or find substitutes. This is one of the frustrations of the global parts shortage. It (to me) seems to be harder to find electrolytic capacitors.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Patrick
This is an interesting discussion as I'm planning something similar myself. Not to derail the thread from OP's needs, but why is dual mono beneficial in a preamp? If your channels are really separated wouldn't you need two input controls, volume controls etc? Or is it just the case of providing each channel with their own power supply?
I'm not trying to question what the OP is planning, I'm just trying to understand what can be accomplished with a dual mono approach in this case. Perhaps it is something that I would like to do too...
I'm not trying to question what the OP is planning, I'm just trying to understand what can be accomplished with a dual mono approach in this case. Perhaps it is something that I would like to do too...
^ Many people feel that dual mono offers better sonics. The technical reasons as to why are often debated, but it usually lands somewhere around the grounding scheme (all other things remaining equal). I can't say with any certainty. The "amount" of improvement is also often debated. There are people that think that every amplifier (pre or power) should be built dual mono. There are others that are less enthusiastic. There are others who cannot determine a difference. tl;dr - YMMV when it comes to a sonic improvement.
Four things among many are certain. It is more complex. It is more expensive. It will be heavier. Another supply can be added later if one wants to A/B dual mono against a single supply.
I have no horse in the race. I started with single supplies as a new builder to reduce complexity and increase my chances of a successful build along with keeping costs down. PSUs can be a high percentage of a project's costs, and I'm still a big ol' fraidy cat that likes to take things slowly. On the opposite side, every project in my chain at the moment happens to be dual mono. Do I think it's 'worth it' personally ... It's a mixed bag.
In the specific case of the O/P, my advice has been to consider a single supply to reduce complexity for their first build. Also, there is an outlying question re: the best wiring configuration for two supplies when used with the input switching / volume board they're considering. Perhaps it can be implemented quite simply, but with a single supply, the question is irrelevant.
To your other questions. No, you do not need two input controls / volume controls. You're correct - dual mono refers to each of the two channels having its own power supply. I believe the term comes from the thought that it is fairly similar (with power amplifiers) to having two monoblocks inside one chassis. That's a guess though.
Enjoy your build!
Four things among many are certain. It is more complex. It is more expensive. It will be heavier. Another supply can be added later if one wants to A/B dual mono against a single supply.
I have no horse in the race. I started with single supplies as a new builder to reduce complexity and increase my chances of a successful build along with keeping costs down. PSUs can be a high percentage of a project's costs, and I'm still a big ol' fraidy cat that likes to take things slowly. On the opposite side, every project in my chain at the moment happens to be dual mono. Do I think it's 'worth it' personally ... It's a mixed bag.
In the specific case of the O/P, my advice has been to consider a single supply to reduce complexity for their first build. Also, there is an outlying question re: the best wiring configuration for two supplies when used with the input switching / volume board they're considering. Perhaps it can be implemented quite simply, but with a single supply, the question is irrelevant.
To your other questions. No, you do not need two input controls / volume controls. You're correct - dual mono refers to each of the two channels having its own power supply. I believe the term comes from the thought that it is fairly similar (with power amplifiers) to having two monoblocks inside one chassis. That's a guess though.
Enjoy your build!
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Thank you for the comprehensive reply @ItsAllInMyHead! For power amplifiers the situation is quite straigthforward, for preamps perhaps a bit less so. Interesting stuff nonetheless, and food for thought!
Sorry I didn't get your whole thread read, but a 30VAC transformer secondary into an unloaded bridge rectifier and filter will give almost 42 volts.
The relationship is sqrt(2) * RMS AC, less the 1V or so drop of the bridge.
Granted, you can't get the full transformer VA from the filter caps at that voltage, but the ripple is easily filtered. And it is the 'Standard' approach.
Cheers
The relationship is sqrt(2) * RMS AC, less the 1V or so drop of the bridge.
Granted, you can't get the full transformer VA from the filter caps at that voltage, but the ripple is easily filtered. And it is the 'Standard' approach.
Cheers
Yes, that's a known relationship, but I'm unsure of your overall point. Are you thinking that they're choosing a transformer with an incorrect primary to secondary ratio? In this case, the O/P is using a regulated supply with fairly high (by comparison to many others) voltage drop. Also, their mains voltage is 220VAC vs. 230VAC (which the Toroidy transformers are rated at). One can also look to the spec sheets of most transformers to see the expected load loss under various loads. Some transformer manufacturers rate the expected secondary voltage with a load equivalent to 25% of the VA rating. YMMV, and some companies have better spec sheets than others.
tl;dr - If the O/P goes with their original choice of transformer manufacturer (Toroidy), chooses the recommended VA, and continues with their current choice of PSU; then they'll need ~31 or 32 "VAC" transformers to achieve their desired 30VDC rails. It won't be anywhere near +/- 42VDC minus 1V for rectification and load loss.
If that wasn't your point, then apologies. Could you please clarify what you are getting at?
tl;dr - If the O/P goes with their original choice of transformer manufacturer (Toroidy), chooses the recommended VA, and continues with their current choice of PSU; then they'll need ~31 or 32 "VAC" transformers to achieve their desired 30VDC rails. It won't be anywhere near +/- 42VDC minus 1V for rectification and load loss.
If that wasn't your point, then apologies. Could you please clarify what you are getting at?
Nope, that was my point. In earlier posts it sounded like an equivalence implied between a 30VAC secondary, and resulting 30V rails.
If there are manufacturers giving rated output voltages at 25% of the VA rating, I would avoid them.
Allowing 3V drop for a regulator and 1,2V for the bridge rectifier, a 24VAC secondary will be enough for a 30V rail -- providing your line AC is fairly dependable. If not, add 10%; if you're nervous make it 15%. That's still just 26 or 28VAC; but at that point the regulator dissipation may need attention.
Pretty sure I didn't say anything about ±42V -- just unipolar 42V.
No big thing . . not trying to throw dirt on the project.
Regards
If there are manufacturers giving rated output voltages at 25% of the VA rating, I would avoid them.
Allowing 3V drop for a regulator and 1,2V for the bridge rectifier, a 24VAC secondary will be enough for a 30V rail -- providing your line AC is fairly dependable. If not, add 10%; if you're nervous make it 15%. That's still just 26 or 28VAC; but at that point the regulator dissipation may need attention.
Pretty sure I didn't say anything about ±42V -- just unipolar 42V.
No big thing . . not trying to throw dirt on the project.
Regards
It was not implied. It was stated. For the Sigma 22 PSU, the specs show a requirement for 30VAC dual secondaries or 60VAC CT in order to achieve the +/- 30VDC output. Where was the confusion? Are you thinking he's using a standard bridge / CRC?
Why? That's actually not bad, but not great (in my opinion). Perhaps I didn't explain well, or you could provide some additional context. I actually wish all manufacturers would just provide the turns ratio(s) and expected load loss at various loads. It might make things easier. What I meant was...
Hypothetical situation with a bit of fact tossed in.
Let's say Antek's AS-0528 (They don't have a "30VAC" that I could find, but I didn't take much time to look.
It's tested at 120VAC on the primaries.
The specified output voltage of 28VAC is at 0A9 =>25.2W. So roughly 50% of the rating. Pretty good.
Let's take a larger model like the AS-4225 which may be used for a power amplifier. It's secondary voltage is specified at 8A => 200W. So, Antek seems to like to rate theirs at ~50%, which is nice. With only two checks over coffee, I would never say that's their standard practice though.
Some are rated at a lower load, but why should they be avoided? Again, as long as the manufacturer is transparent, it doesn't make much difference to me. Sure, if they achieved the stated output at 75% or 100% of the VA rating, that might be nice, but again... choosing the proper transformer is the job of the DIYer. Transformers with less load loss might be physically larger, heavier, more work to control EMI, more expensive etc. Unless I've missed it (and I may have, I am a novice), there's no industry standard for the specifications across manufacturers and countries of origin / manufacture. So, we have to go to the spec sheets.
tl;dr - many people choose much larger / higher spec'ed transformers than may be strictly necessary. No danger of under-sizing for this project.
Please look at the spec sheets / parts list for the PSU in question. What you're stating is not incorrect, but it's irrelevant. AC line dependability is handled by the fact that it's a regulated supply. There's no need for speculation and hypotheticals, the PSU is a known entity as is the Class-A load of the pre-amplifier and its ancillary components (input switching etc). The suggested VA of the transformers was still over-specified, IMO. My guess is that the output VDC will be rock stable with very little ripple. I'm still not sure what you're getting at.
Fair enough, but the BA-3 requires a bipolar supply. So once again, factual, but irrelevant to the O/Ps situation.
Always fun to chat and learn. I just didn't want the O/P to get confused (or worried). I am a novice, as is the O/P. So, please call it out if I've made any errors. You stated that you didn't read the entire thread, which is fine. However, reading it may have helped you to provide more concrete examples to help the O/P vs. providing some correct (but irrelevant to the case at hand, IMO) information.
Cheers
Edited to correct grammar and add a bit more context around the actual supply and transformers suggested.
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Hello @ItsAllInMyHead ciao @Nikodemuzz and @Rick PA Stadel I would like to go through a recap since I am not following the thread since a couple weeks and just got the BA-3 board so I'd like to confirm the shipping list to populate the Sigma 22 boards and then the BA-3 one but this latter one will be populating the dedicated thread.
Patrick I guess the BOM as by above post should fit the bill, you already checked it and so far, since we agreed on a 30V output the list should work as it is a value contemplated by the producer without for me to go through any calculations.
I'd like to refresh the theory behind the choices we/I went through, on the BA-3 thread more than one member suggested to raise the voltage as to minimise distortion and better couple the preamp with the power amp which is gonna be a FW F4, now this is pasted text from your's above reply:
"We established that you are in a 220VAC country, and Toroidy specifies their transformer output voltage with a 230VAC input. So, you adjust a little bit. It is very nice that Toroidy has so many selections. Many companies do not.
Example if you bought a 30VAC Toroidy: 230/30 = 7.6666666... => 220/7.6666 = 28.7 which is a bit lower than you want. You'd want either the 31 or 32VAC secondaries. It's a regulated supply so either would likely work very nicely. I'd err being a bit higher. It will not hurt.
So a transformer with - 2 x 32 VAC secondaries"
Let's see if I got the transformers correct, here attaching a print screen.
Question here being, once the Sigma 22 are fed with 32VAC we should get the circa 24VDC given the voltage drop estimated in about 8-9V, am I correct with this (sorry but can't retrieve exact info on voltage drop of the Sigma 22), 24VDC is what they all suggest for the BA-3 and in my particular need to feed the F4, correct?
Grazie a tutti for attending the thread
Giovanni
Patrick I guess the BOM as by above post should fit the bill, you already checked it and so far, since we agreed on a 30V output the list should work as it is a value contemplated by the producer without for me to go through any calculations.
I'd like to refresh the theory behind the choices we/I went through, on the BA-3 thread more than one member suggested to raise the voltage as to minimise distortion and better couple the preamp with the power amp which is gonna be a FW F4, now this is pasted text from your's above reply:
"We established that you are in a 220VAC country, and Toroidy specifies their transformer output voltage with a 230VAC input. So, you adjust a little bit. It is very nice that Toroidy has so many selections. Many companies do not.
Example if you bought a 30VAC Toroidy: 230/30 = 7.6666666... => 220/7.6666 = 28.7 which is a bit lower than you want. You'd want either the 31 or 32VAC secondaries. It's a regulated supply so either would likely work very nicely. I'd err being a bit higher. It will not hurt.
So a transformer with - 2 x 32 VAC secondaries"
Let's see if I got the transformers correct, here attaching a print screen.
Question here being, once the Sigma 22 are fed with 32VAC we should get the circa 24VDC given the voltage drop estimated in about 8-9V, am I correct with this (sorry but can't retrieve exact info on voltage drop of the Sigma 22), 24VDC is what they all suggest for the BA-3 and in my particular need to feed the F4, correct?
Grazie a tutti for attending the thread
Giovanni
I might be a bit late to the party, and never be able to patrick‘s level of knowledge and support-quality, but still let me add 2 comments:
(I am building my ba-3 pre with the ultrabib-PSU, and will also make it a dual mono 😉 )
- If you’re considering toroidy‘s supreme audio grade transformers, double-check their sizes. They’re really big.
- if you’re still evaluating other PSU's, maybe Salas' ultrabib could be a very good option. Salas creates outstanding products (like this PSU or the i-select…), and you can get them as full kits with everything included, sometimes (when it’s beneficial) those parts are matched to the perfection…
(I am building my ba-3 pre with the ultrabib-PSU, and will also make it a dual mono 😉 )
Ciao @myleftear the choice of the Sigma22 is because, for a beginner like me, it suits the desired 30V to feed the BA-3 as suggested by many because of the coupling with the F4 power amp while the DIY Store PSU won't allow that voltage and also because the desired voltage can be obtained without stressing with calculations bla bla bla
Only concern I have is duty taxes, to say one I just got the BA-3 boards (I got two, just in case my friend gets into it or something goes wrong an extra one no big deal) and with a total expense of 28 dollars I got charged almost 5 euros on taxes, again no big deal but with the PSU it's gonna be lot more stuff coming off the EU
Let's wait to hear from Patrick, I sure trust your advise as you already built working stuff, if no real advantage, be it quality, ease of build or whatever else I rather leave things as they are not to overcomplicate things.
Grazie
Giovanni
p.s. I am waiting to hear from you re the I-Select and what you have, if just the board or the whole thing, grazie
Only concern I have is duty taxes, to say one I just got the BA-3 boards (I got two, just in case my friend gets into it or something goes wrong an extra one no big deal) and with a total expense of 28 dollars I got charged almost 5 euros on taxes, again no big deal but with the PSU it's gonna be lot more stuff coming off the EU
Let's wait to hear from Patrick, I sure trust your advise as you already built working stuff, if no real advantage, be it quality, ease of build or whatever else I rather leave things as they are not to overcomplicate things.
Grazie
Giovanni
p.s. I am waiting to hear from you re the I-Select and what you have, if just the board or the whole thing, grazie
Hi Gents -
@myleftear. You're too kind. I only know enough to ask smarter people for advice, and I try to ask good questions. 😀
Giovanni, as you're seeing, there are so many wonderful options. I am not personally familiar with either of the PSUs. However, after I read the Sigma 22 page, it gave me confidence that you can build it successfully and that it will work well for you in this application. Also, Salas has confirmed that the ISelect will work well from one of the +30VDC supply rails from your BA-3 PSU. The one that I thought might be a bigger step for a first-time builder was the Super-Regulator. Again, it is a fantastic product, but my gut told me that you may struggle a bit choosing parts and building it.
If you would like, take a look at the UltraBiB also. Again, I am not familiar with it myself, but I do know that quite a number of people really think it's wonderful. Then, after you read about it, decide which you might find easier to build and choose one. You cannot be 'wrong' with either choice.
Cheers,
Patrick
@myleftear. You're too kind. I only know enough to ask smarter people for advice, and I try to ask good questions. 😀
Giovanni, as you're seeing, there are so many wonderful options. I am not personally familiar with either of the PSUs. However, after I read the Sigma 22 page, it gave me confidence that you can build it successfully and that it will work well for you in this application. Also, Salas has confirmed that the ISelect will work well from one of the +30VDC supply rails from your BA-3 PSU. The one that I thought might be a bigger step for a first-time builder was the Super-Regulator. Again, it is a fantastic product, but my gut told me that you may struggle a bit choosing parts and building it.
If you would like, take a look at the UltraBiB also. Again, I am not familiar with it myself, but I do know that quite a number of people really think it's wonderful. Then, after you read about it, decide which you might find easier to build and choose one. You cannot be 'wrong' with either choice.
Cheers,
Patrick
Buongiorno Patrick @ItsAllInMyHead and buongiorno to @myleftear yesterday I met my friend Giovanni who is a really skilled tech who works on microwaves (he proudly showed my audiophile - real one - friend Roberto and me a 10Ghz 7W !!! transmitter he bought used and working on to arrange something, his skills level is amazing and he got all the kind of equipment to work on such stuff), I showed him the BA-3 board, the JFETs and MOSFETs to fill the project and illustrated him, roughly, the project and he will be glad to not just help but to put it together along with me at his place.
When he showed me, to say one, some welding station and the thickness (...) of some SMD stuff he works on I understood this is no easy stuff for a beginner but it will sure be a great learning gym.
Now, back to components, to ship the Sigma boards will cost way more than just the boards, I thought I'd get 3, 2 for my project and a spare one (as well as I got a spare BA-3, be it another one or for my friend Roberto who runs a preamp worth 7K but who might still appreciate Papa Nelson work), long story short is that AMB requires insured mail to ship overseas so I might ask to ship to somebody in the US and either ask them to ship me through regular USPS or for them to get it here when they come as I have many friends in the US who come to the island where I live, I'll have to wait a bit but it won't detract off the pleasure to see something being born rather than simply (...) bought and used.
Patrick would you mind repeating to me the calculations as to reach the desired 30VDC out of the PSU to feed the front end?
Transformer wise I got it, 230VAC vs 220VAC, from 30V secondaries to 32V ones to compensate the slight drop, you made the calculations and I do really appreciate.
Now I am going through the Sigma 22 description and (finally) found this out which explains how to dimension the transformer given the desired output at the regulator's end:
"a rule of thumb for this PSU is that approximately 8V-9V drop should be maintained across the pass MOSFETs under load. This allows for the 4V Vgs of the MOSFETs plus about 5V of headroom to allow for line voltage fluctuations. Using the ±15V output as an example, the pre-regulator voltage should be 24V. Accounting for a couple of volts drop across the rectifier diodes, that figure goes up to 26V. The transformer voltage should be 0.707 times that of the rectified DC voltage, so 26V * 0.707 ~= 18V. Thus, a dual 18V or a 36VCT transformer should work well."
If I use the above and want to obtain the +- 30V output and follow the rules by adding 9V (as per above +-15V plus the 4V Vgs + 5V headroom) we get up to 39 to whom 2V gotta be applied as rectifier does drop we get up to 41, 41 x 0.707 = 28,987
Where did I go wrong?
Grazie e buon fine settimana everyone
Giovanni
When he showed me, to say one, some welding station and the thickness (...) of some SMD stuff he works on I understood this is no easy stuff for a beginner but it will sure be a great learning gym.
Now, back to components, to ship the Sigma boards will cost way more than just the boards, I thought I'd get 3, 2 for my project and a spare one (as well as I got a spare BA-3, be it another one or for my friend Roberto who runs a preamp worth 7K but who might still appreciate Papa Nelson work), long story short is that AMB requires insured mail to ship overseas so I might ask to ship to somebody in the US and either ask them to ship me through regular USPS or for them to get it here when they come as I have many friends in the US who come to the island where I live, I'll have to wait a bit but it won't detract off the pleasure to see something being born rather than simply (...) bought and used.
Patrick would you mind repeating to me the calculations as to reach the desired 30VDC out of the PSU to feed the front end?
Transformer wise I got it, 230VAC vs 220VAC, from 30V secondaries to 32V ones to compensate the slight drop, you made the calculations and I do really appreciate.
Now I am going through the Sigma 22 description and (finally) found this out which explains how to dimension the transformer given the desired output at the regulator's end:
"a rule of thumb for this PSU is that approximately 8V-9V drop should be maintained across the pass MOSFETs under load. This allows for the 4V Vgs of the MOSFETs plus about 5V of headroom to allow for line voltage fluctuations. Using the ±15V output as an example, the pre-regulator voltage should be 24V. Accounting for a couple of volts drop across the rectifier diodes, that figure goes up to 26V. The transformer voltage should be 0.707 times that of the rectified DC voltage, so 26V * 0.707 ~= 18V. Thus, a dual 18V or a 36VCT transformer should work well."
If I use the above and want to obtain the +- 30V output and follow the rules by adding 9V (as per above +-15V plus the 4V Vgs + 5V headroom) we get up to 39 to whom 2V gotta be applied as rectifier does drop we get up to 41, 41 x 0.707 = 28,987
Where did I go wrong?
Grazie e buon fine settimana everyone
Giovanni
Re reading it I should be doing it correct, once we put into the game the maths Patrick did for me to compensate the -10VDC off of our outlet 32VAC secondaries should fit the bill with the Sigma 22 PSU and learning process, even tho in very small steps, proceeding
SMD work is fun, and if you stay in the hobby long enough, you'll need to learn it. Through-hole parts are becoming obsolete more and more each day.
Sure, happy to try again. 😀
Correct
You didn't go wrong. You're just not quite finished. You calculated the desired AC input from the secondaries in order to achieve the 30VDC output from the power supply. Now you need to determine what transformer to buy that will give you (as close as possible) to that output under a load.
To finish - 28,987 * 230 / 220 => 30.304 to compensate for your mains voltage and the fact that Toroidy transformers are spec'ed for 230VAC at the primaries for their output voltage (like you have mentioned above). If another manufacturer specified their transformers at 220VAC, then you would not have to do that last step. Hope that makes sense.
Earlier, I had simply looked at the table on the Sigma 22 parts list where it shows 30VAC for a 30VDC output. Then I simply did the mains voltage adjustment vs. doing the math the longer way as you've done above. 😀
30 * 230/220 => 31.36
Either way, the results are a close estimate. Your PSU has an adjustable range (within reason), so you will be able to set it precisely. A "31VAC" or "32VAC" secondary transformer from Toroidy will do nicely. Many companies do not have such small increments.
Hope that helps.
Edited to add - Per post #36... you already figured out the extra step. 😀
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Buongiorno Patrick, more or less I am set with at least the theory behind it and with the correct value for the transformers, in the meantime I hope I got the BOM for the BA-3 correct and once I can finally put hands onto the Sigma 22 I can fine tune the other BOM which I already started to work on.
Grazie ancora for your help, I will be back on this soon, I don't want to further mess it up, I wanna clear the other BOM and then move on 😉
Grazie ancora for your help, I will be back on this soon, I don't want to further mess it up, I wanna clear the other BOM and then move on 😉
Rename this from .pdf to .xls or send me a private message with your email and I will be glad to send it to you
Best
Best