Suitable fullrange for a WAW OB

[adason]

Just use multiples of them, they are cheap.

 

[atharva]

Thanks @jacozz, @joensd and @selwe

The 3FE25 arrived and I'm giving it a spin. Just been a few hours so not broken-in I suppose. The little devils! It's amazing what they can do. While the tonality is nice the vocals are a bit recessed (not as forward) as compared to my 96dB BLH. And the top end is a bit too sharp.

I first tried crossing at 150, 200 and 300. Prefer 300Hz with 24dB/Octave right now. I also EQ'd using REW with a slightly sloping house curve. That reduced the top end a bit. It's hard to describe but the OB sounds more fun than the BLH but the BLH has a nicer balance.

I've got the MarkAudio 12p on order too.

For FRs what is the next level of performance? Jordan Eikona II? Followed by Voxativ/Cube audio? It doesn't seem like AE has an FR.

@mikey_audiogeek, what does it mean FA22 and JA8008 have the same frame?

BTW, what does "EnaBLe" mean?

 

[waxx]

For FRs what is the next level of performance? Jordan Eikona II? Followed by Voxativ/Cube audio? It doesn't seem like AE has an FR.

I don't think there are levels in performance on full range drivers, just different styles. Jordan drivers are very similar to Mark Audio but not that good.

Those very expensive look a bit suspect, especially as there are no trustable specs availeble. Cube has the reputation to be very good.

Some Fostex and Lowter are rated very high, but only in the right cabinets for the right setup. Tang Band can be very good, but has a specific colouring that not everybody likes. Sonido is also very popular, and has a good reputation. The Scanspeak 10F/8414G10 is rated as one of the best drivers, but it's very expensive for what it is and i think it's overrated and overpriced.

Some like AN and Lii audio drivers as the ulitmate, but I and many don't as the specs are not good and the sound very ragged... Their specs published are also not accurate and very unlogical.

And some wander in the vintage fullrange hype, with the old Philips fullrange drivers (like the 9710 series), Isophon, Goodman Axiom and Tandberg drivers. They have a certain nice sound, but if they are better, i doubt it.

BTW, what does "EnaBLe" mean?

EnNABL is a process of "doping" a driver by treating the cone with some stuff, it changes the response, often breaks resonances that you don't want.

EnABL - Technical discussion

 

[planet10]

For FRs what is the next level of performance? Jordan Eikona II? Followed by Voxativ/Cube audio? It doesn't seem like AE has an FR

I am sellin gmy Eikonas, some love them i prefer the Alpair 11ms.

I haven’t heard any of the high priced exotica — not quite true, the very pricey FC i tried sucked.

Cube/Voxative/AER all have distributors which has greatly contributed to th ehigh prices. I would look first to Sonido, drivers you can still buy direct so some one third the price.

what does "EnaBLe" mean?

EnABL.

EnABL - Listening impressions & techniques

You will find that it generates a lot of discussion, derision, and enthusiasm. Derision almost universally from those who have not actually heard what it does.

dave

 

[adason]

sure, and you forgot to tell us you hate tc9

 

[planet10]

I wouldn’t say that, it is just far to highy lauded. It is a good $10 TV speaker.

dave

 

[planet10]

I also have the Visaton 200b.
Don't go with that, it's crap above 2k–3k and beaming like a laser beam with no real top end, makes my head hurt.

Stock you face 2 issues.

1/ If you are on axis the top tears your head off.
2/ off-axis one starts what would happen if you added a ribbon (doesn’t work)

Take the dutcap off and add a phase plug and the driver is transformed. I can walk across the back of the room and the top changes little. It does show the real sensitivity of about 90 dB.

Visaton B200

http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/B200-phase-plug.pdf

The other stuff i do does not hurt either.

dave

 

[Vix]

Hi
As someone who had OB's with (modified) Visaton B200's and Eminence Beta 15's I can say the following:
Visaton B200 is not a bad speaker, but, phase plug mod, as Dave explained, is necessary.
But, even then, I was never quite happy with it. It was always kind of love-and-hate relationship. It sounded good, but never that good as to say "oh, that is the sound I am looking for"...
This photo was made in 2018. Since then, I have changed my residence and these speakers have been dismantled.
I am using some B&W DM1 ones temporarily, and contemplatating about my next speakers. Most probably it is going to be some WaW of sort, with 3-4" fullrange and 8" bass...but that belongs to another topic.
In short, for tge money, don't buy the the B200. Look for another FR. Sonidos have been highly praised, but I haven't had a chance to hear them.

 

[atharva]

Thanks @waxx, dave, @Vix..

The Sonido does look very interesting. Prices look very reasonable.

Two more questions..

- There was a post where someone described how to corelate driver size and beaming frequency. Now I can't find it. Can someone either restate here or point me to some place?

- Is there a way to know how narrow the sweet spot becomes? Can someone please indicate what the sweet spot width would be for different driver sizes like 3,5,8,10,12 inches?

 

[planet10]

- There was a post where someone described how to corelate driver size and beaming frequency. Now I can't find it. Can someone either restate here or point me to some place?

Unfortunately they are a generalizaton based on the physics of a flat piston. As sppn as the cone becomes, well a cone, a whole bunch more variables are introduced.

Typically a cone that is very shallow (ie Alpair 7/11ms) heavily curved cone, vrs a much deeper cone (Visaton B200), will have better HF dispersion. As well, how well, how close the cone comes to being able to do the magic grail of gracefully decoupling the outside of the cone from the inside (gradually decreasing the effective cone size). The shape and nature of the dustcap plays a role too, as do whizzers and phase plugs.

So in the end, the size/dispersion thing is very much a wild generalization that has to be set aside as soon as one starts to looks at individual drivers.

dave

 

[mikey_audiogeek]

@mikey_audiogeek, what does it mean FA22 and JA8008 have the same frame?

It means you don't have to make any changes to the baffle, to use one in place of the other. Same cutout and bolt hole pattern.

Cheers,
Mike

 

[e_fortier]

Any other recommendations for a high efficiency (above 93dB) full range to put on a WAW OB ? My OB already have a super tweeter

TIA
Eric

 

[oon_the_kid]

You will find that it generates a lot of discussion, derision, and enthusiasm. Derision almost universally from those who have not actually heard what it does.

dave

I tried Some of Dave's suggestions before. Coating the speaker with Visaton speaker cone coating liquid definitely improves it on my 3Fe22. The sound is much darker and quieter. It is probably diluted PVA. So the modge podge treatment that Dave suggests does help. I would have tried enable but I don't know exactly how to do it.

Oon

 

[planet10]

ModPodge is a PVA that dries a bit flexier than white glue.

A trick i have been using since the ‘70s. It was Puzzlecoat in those days.

dave

 

[e_fortier]

Do MA has a high efficiency mid/tweeter available or are they all very low efficiency like the Alpair 5.3 at 85dB...

Thanks
Eric

 

[planet10]

Trying to get any small loudspeaker to be very efficient usually means giving up bass.

Typical is 86-88 dB sensitivity. A5.2 measures about 88, so given th eimpedance that is the approximate efficiency.

dave

 

[e_fortier]

Thanks Dave.

Bass wise I’m ok I’ve got 2 Alpha 15A per side on a double stack H baffle, LPF is Set to 125Hz 12dB LR, efficiency around 94dB. (Using à MiniDSP to fine tune and remove the crazy 10dB peak around 2KHz)

The mid/tweet will have a HPF at 325Hz 12dB LR driven by some SE EL 84 or similar low power flea amps.

Just wondering if MA drivers would be good for my setup?

Thanks
Eric

 

[planet10]

OB, Alpair 10p would be my choice with that amp.

dave

 

[k9vap]

Since I have been brought into the discussion (post #8) I will add my 2c.

I have spent the last 5 years playing with FR drivers in OB configuration (WAW), fooling myself they were good. They changed the way I listened to music. I found myself going for softer jazzy/acoustic material....away from my rock roots. I blamed my old age and the recording engineers.

I tried many drivers.

Then, I committed sacriledge and invested in a commercial mid/treble combination.

All of a sudden, I was listening to rock again.

Conclusion: If you want to listen to rock, and you want to listen loud, FR's aint gonna cut it.

These comparative graphs may help explain why:
The bottom 2 entries are Gallo Strada 2's & KEF 3001 pods. A pair / side of KEF HTS3001SE are now doing it for me. They have been suitably modified with port removal & sealed. Inside lined with bitumen damping. They rock, go loud, and are smooth as butter!

 

[oon_the_kid]

Well, it is not quite fair to compare open baffle without any baffle versus sealed speakers. You could at least put those speakers in a small baffle or sealed box for fair comparison.

Oon