Hi,
This is my first DIY and am thinking of doing a simple WAW flat panel OB 22"x50". Room size is 14x19x8. Listening position is 8'.
I've read previous threads asking similar questions but am wondering if there is any updated data.
2 Woofers on each side in parallel - driven by a separate amp
1 FR on each side - driven by a tube or low power class A SS amp
Will use MiniDSP HD for XO (A newbie so will need help for EQ).
For the woofers I chose PRV15W1000V2 as they have a good Qts of 0.7.
I was looking for FRs around $500 (pair) and only considered 8". After reading previous threads I learnt about beaming. So now I'm not sure what size to go for. Would like dispersion that covers 2 seats @8ft. The smaller size drivers like the Scanspeak 10F/8424 and Vifa T9CFD are low sensitivity and I don't have an amp that can drive them.
I'd like a driver that is transparent and has a beautiful midrange not clinical. Suitable for a vareity of music like Jazz, Pop, Rock, Metal etc.
I'm based in India and had narrowed my 8" choices to following with USD equivalent Indian prices.
Seas FA22CRZ - $285
Tang Band W8-1808 - $269
Tang Band W8-1722 - will need to import
Visaton B200 - will need to import
MarkAudio 12P - $167
AN Super 8+ Ferrite - $405 for a pair
Is one of the local ones good enough or is there value in importing either the 1722 or B200 or something else?
Thanks.
This is my first DIY and am thinking of doing a simple WAW flat panel OB 22"x50". Room size is 14x19x8. Listening position is 8'.
I've read previous threads asking similar questions but am wondering if there is any updated data.
2 Woofers on each side in parallel - driven by a separate amp
1 FR on each side - driven by a tube or low power class A SS amp
Will use MiniDSP HD for XO (A newbie so will need help for EQ).
For the woofers I chose PRV15W1000V2 as they have a good Qts of 0.7.
I was looking for FRs around $500 (pair) and only considered 8". After reading previous threads I learnt about beaming. So now I'm not sure what size to go for. Would like dispersion that covers 2 seats @8ft. The smaller size drivers like the Scanspeak 10F/8424 and Vifa T9CFD are low sensitivity and I don't have an amp that can drive them.
I'd like a driver that is transparent and has a beautiful midrange not clinical. Suitable for a vareity of music like Jazz, Pop, Rock, Metal etc.
I'm based in India and had narrowed my 8" choices to following with USD equivalent Indian prices.
Seas FA22CRZ - $285
Tang Band W8-1808 - $269
Tang Band W8-1722 - will need to import
Visaton B200 - will need to import
MarkAudio 12P - $167
AN Super 8+ Ferrite - $405 for a pair
Is one of the local ones good enough or is there value in importing either the 1722 or B200 or something else?
Thanks.
Dont know if you can get them, but you might want to look at Lii Audio in China. The have a number of FR drivers you might be interested in. I have the F15, which I feel reveals anything you put to it, great on vocals / acoustic piano / drums.
@jjasniew, shipping from China to India is currently a problem.
@xrk971, did you mean the Betsy? The site says Betsy is for OB. The Betsy/ORV is better than what I listed?
Just wanted to add that import duties are high (50% on cost + shipping). So even the Betsy would cost $200+ a pair. Is the Tang Band 1808 the best bang for buck at my prices?
I don't mind importing if it offers a substantial improvement.
@xrk971, did you mean the Betsy? The site says Betsy is for OB. The Betsy/ORV is better than what I listed?
Just wanted to add that import duties are high (50% on cost + shipping). So even the Betsy would cost $200+ a pair. Is the Tang Band 1808 the best bang for buck at my prices?
I don't mind importing if it offers a substantial improvement.
You need a Fullrange driver with a high Qts i think, Both the TB drivers listed fit in that and the Tang Band W8-2145 will fit it also, the Seas and the Mark Audio is less fit i think and the AN with an QTS of 0.2 certainly not fit.
The visaton is a classic for fullrange, altough maybe not the best as it's a driver that exist for long. But i don't know if it's worth importing if the price to that is very high.
The visaton is a classic for fullrange, altough maybe not the best as it's a driver that exist for long. But i don't know if it's worth importing if the price to that is very high.
The Seas FA22RCZ is great in an OB. See my post on the "Ultimate Open Baffle" thread.
No need for high QTS since you're using helper woofers. And the rising on-axis response need little EQ in OB so you can just focus on the xover (I use MiniDSP as well).
And the beaming at high frequencies reduces baffle diffraction effects. I think you'll be very happy with the FA22RCZ.
Otherwise the Lii Audio Fast 8 looks like a great way to get started.
Cheers,
Mike
No need for high QTS since you're using helper woofers. And the rising on-axis response need little EQ in OB so you can just focus on the xover (I use MiniDSP as well).
And the beaming at high frequencies reduces baffle diffraction effects. I think you'll be very happy with the FA22RCZ.
Otherwise the Lii Audio Fast 8 looks like a great way to get started.
Cheers,
Mike
The FaitalPro 3 and 4" have a nice higher sensitivity than the TC9 and the likes.
They would have reduced beaming compared to an 8" driver.
I have the TB and they are very nice, beaming a little less than the usual 8", but they will need extensive EQ from your miniDSP to sound nice, as their FR is all over the place.
Also, remember that most of us do not enjoy listening to a completely flat FR. Having a downslope of 5 to 10dBs is more natural. So, your wide range driver does not need to match your woofer in sensitivity. The woofer can be 5dBs higher.. Actually even easier to mesh them if the woofer has higher sensitivity.
They would have reduced beaming compared to an 8" driver.
I have the TB and they are very nice, beaming a little less than the usual 8", but they will need extensive EQ from your miniDSP to sound nice, as their FR is all over the place.
Also, remember that most of us do not enjoy listening to a completely flat FR. Having a downslope of 5 to 10dBs is more natural. So, your wide range driver does not need to match your woofer in sensitivity. The woofer can be 5dBs higher.. Actually even easier to mesh them if the woofer has higher sensitivity.
+1 on the Faitalpro. You could go for the 3Fe22 or 3Fe25. It is 91db/watt, which makes it the most efficient in the 3" category. If you build a line array, it becomes a 97db efficient array.
There is one guy who tried almost everything out there and came up with Faitalpro line array is the best.
Trans-Fi Audio - DIY SPEAKER BLOG
I also have the SEAS F22 and the Faitalpros, but IMHO, if detail is what you are after the 3" will be better than the 8".
Not expensive and well below your targeted budget.
Oon
There is one guy who tried almost everything out there and came up with Faitalpro line array is the best.
Trans-Fi Audio - DIY SPEAKER BLOG
I also have the SEAS F22 and the Faitalpros, but IMHO, if detail is what you are after the 3" will be better than the 8".
Not expensive and well below your targeted budget.
Oon
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Thank you all for your valuable suggestions.
@mikey_audiogeek, I'd read that the FA22 was excellent value for money and is cheaper than the TB abroad. But here it is more expensive than the TB. Would you still choose FA22 or the TB?
@perceval/@oon_the_kid,
Line array looks appealing but I've already built the OB frame so may be I'll take that up next.
The woofer baffles are 22x18" and FR is 22x14" (for 8 or 10inch). Is that fine to mount the Faital 4"?
Is there a way to decide between 3"/4" and Ferrite/Neodymium?
@mikey_audiogeek, I'd read that the FA22 was excellent value for money and is cheaper than the TB abroad. But here it is more expensive than the TB. Would you still choose FA22 or the TB?
@perceval/@oon_the_kid,
Line array looks appealing but I've already built the OB frame so may be I'll take that up next.
The woofer baffles are 22x18" and FR is 22x14" (for 8 or 10inch). Is that fine to mount the Faital 4"?
Is there a way to decide between 3"/4" and Ferrite/Neodymium?
I don't see why not. Cut a hole for the 4" first and if that doesn't work out get the 8".
For the option of 3" vs 4", The 3" has better highs than the 4". But the 4" has better bass... I have both. If running WAW, I go for 3", if no plans for tweeter.
Oon
Hi,
8" fullrange is a decent size and will allow easy integration with a 15" bass. Within your price barrier I´d like the TB 1808 (or 1772, which I don´t have or know, but differences should be subtle) best - a very good driver with a beautiful sound, even better after sensitive correction. Could even sell you my pair since I moved on, but import to India seems not to be feasable... photos show an experimental OB with TB-1808 and AE Dipole 18.
All the best
Mattes
8" fullrange is a decent size and will allow easy integration with a 15" bass. Within your price barrier I´d like the TB 1808 (or 1772, which I don´t have or know, but differences should be subtle) best - a very good driver with a beautiful sound, even better after sensitive correction. Could even sell you my pair since I moved on, but import to India seems not to be feasable... photos show an experimental OB with TB-1808 and AE Dipole 18.
All the best
Mattes
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@Mattes, that is a beautiful build.
Clearly all drivers have a fan following. Are all of them close enough sonically or is there a significant difference in sound signature?
I've ordered the FaitalPro 3FE25 which was the only one available locally. Cheap enough to try. I'll still try others on the list as and when I can.
Clearly all drivers have a fan following. Are all of them close enough sonically or is there a significant difference in sound signature?
I've ordered the FaitalPro 3FE25 which was the only one available locally. Cheap enough to try. I'll still try others on the list as and when I can.
Many of the FRs you have indicated are larger than i would ever consider for a midTweeter, Can you get Alpair 10p?
dave
dave
Tough call. Like choosing a bottle of wine based on written reviews. I think if you want an 8" fr driver, you'll be happy with either.
I'm now running JA8008/TW034/waveguide in place of the FA22RCZ as per Troel's OB11. The JA8008 uses the same frame as the Fa22RCZ. Good upgrade path.
Cheers,
Mike
For OB, yes the A12p if you need to play loud. P7HD, 5.3. CHN50 for an MJK style baffle. A6.2s the metal or paper. They also work, paper similar voicing to A12p, metal P7HD/5.3/CHN.
dave
dave
Hello Atharva!
I've used both the Tangband 1772 and the Seas FA22 in my OB.
The Seas don't need any correction at all in my Ob with helper woofer. It's easy to implement and is a very balanced driver.
The Tangband 1772 is more peaky.. needs some correction to sound neutral. Although, The thing the Tangband has over the Seas is more output in the 15-20khz. (no super tweeter needed here 😀) I believe the Tangband 1808 is the better choice for OB implementation and it's frequency response looks a bit smoother to.
I also have the Visaton 200b.
Don't go with that, it's crap above 2k–3k and beaming like a laser beam with no real top end, makes my head hurt.
Good luck!
I've used both the Tangband 1772 and the Seas FA22 in my OB.
The Seas don't need any correction at all in my Ob with helper woofer. It's easy to implement and is a very balanced driver.
The Tangband 1772 is more peaky.. needs some correction to sound neutral. Although, The thing the Tangband has over the Seas is more output in the 15-20khz. (no super tweeter needed here 😀) I believe the Tangband 1808 is the better choice for OB implementation and it's frequency response looks a bit smoother to.
I also have the Visaton 200b.
Don't go with that, it's crap above 2k–3k and beaming like a laser beam with no real top end, makes my head hurt.
Good luck!
In an active setup like the minidsp you don´t necessarily need high Qts woofers but it can help some.
I use the Alpair 7.3 on a slim prototype baffle and am quite happy with it.
Woofer is Peerless 830669 which is plenty for my room and volume levels.
(and a flat with neighbours next door ;-)
