HI!
Ok so I think I'm set with my LCR project for the theatre but now I need to figure out project number 2! (I have started these builds because my workshop is finally ready!)
What I'm after is a design to fit in a reasonably acoustically bad spot in the main TV area which are pretty much in use all of the time. I currently have several commercial bookshelf speakers that are changed when I get bored. Currently there's an old pair of Mordaunt Short MS20i in place which are ok but I have always loved DIY so would like to make something high quality for permanent residence. A 'Reference' speaker if you will. Something that does well with pretty much anything with a smooth response. It will be fed anything from compressed satellite TV to pumping dance tunes when doing housework so SOME spl capability will be good but I will just keep to its limits of course.
These will always have a subwoofer for support so they only need to be of high sound quality for 'general purpose' listening of TV and Music above 80hz or so and will be powered by a Sony ES receiver with around 100wrms per channel. There is no centre channel for this room but there are a pair of in ceiling rears on fairly low volume for TV movie effects.
I like the idea of the CSM monitors on the Troels Gravesen site as well as the Discovery 18 and Ellam XT's for example. I would prefer to use a known and trusted design before spending the money on quality drivers. I will take my time with the enclosures, probably using a nice automotive metallic finish, Gloss white or maybe a deep cherry veneer(or similar)
Can I adapt these designs to be a little closer to the wall? Front port and slightly lower tuning? I can only get the front edge of the speaker around 50cm from the wall, so a 30cm/12inch deep box will only have 6-8" of air behind. There are also walls close to each side of the alcove as well as the glass topped bench just for good measure! There is also a free standing 58" Panasonic 4K TV sitting inbetween!
I can add acoustic panels directly behind the speakers and the first reflection point had a big sofa in the way(other side is fairly open)
The whole alcove is around 3M wide and 50cm deep meaning the speakers will be fairly close to the sides with the TV in place.
Sensitivity is not an issue(84 and up I guess?), nor is actual cabinet volume etc as long as it can sit on a 60cm high bench(I can adjust cabinet height to get the tweeter at the right height)
I know it's a bit hard to ask for a reference standard speaker and then stick it into an alcove situation with flat reflective surfaces everywhere but I'm hoping this will still help to get the best out of it that I can.
Looking forward to suggestions 😀
Ok so I think I'm set with my LCR project for the theatre but now I need to figure out project number 2! (I have started these builds because my workshop is finally ready!)
What I'm after is a design to fit in a reasonably acoustically bad spot in the main TV area which are pretty much in use all of the time. I currently have several commercial bookshelf speakers that are changed when I get bored. Currently there's an old pair of Mordaunt Short MS20i in place which are ok but I have always loved DIY so would like to make something high quality for permanent residence. A 'Reference' speaker if you will. Something that does well with pretty much anything with a smooth response. It will be fed anything from compressed satellite TV to pumping dance tunes when doing housework so SOME spl capability will be good but I will just keep to its limits of course.
These will always have a subwoofer for support so they only need to be of high sound quality for 'general purpose' listening of TV and Music above 80hz or so and will be powered by a Sony ES receiver with around 100wrms per channel. There is no centre channel for this room but there are a pair of in ceiling rears on fairly low volume for TV movie effects.
I like the idea of the CSM monitors on the Troels Gravesen site as well as the Discovery 18 and Ellam XT's for example. I would prefer to use a known and trusted design before spending the money on quality drivers. I will take my time with the enclosures, probably using a nice automotive metallic finish, Gloss white or maybe a deep cherry veneer(or similar)
Can I adapt these designs to be a little closer to the wall? Front port and slightly lower tuning? I can only get the front edge of the speaker around 50cm from the wall, so a 30cm/12inch deep box will only have 6-8" of air behind. There are also walls close to each side of the alcove as well as the glass topped bench just for good measure! There is also a free standing 58" Panasonic 4K TV sitting inbetween!
I can add acoustic panels directly behind the speakers and the first reflection point had a big sofa in the way(other side is fairly open)
The whole alcove is around 3M wide and 50cm deep meaning the speakers will be fairly close to the sides with the TV in place.
Sensitivity is not an issue(84 and up I guess?), nor is actual cabinet volume etc as long as it can sit on a 60cm high bench(I can adjust cabinet height to get the tweeter at the right height)
I know it's a bit hard to ask for a reference standard speaker and then stick it into an alcove situation with flat reflective surfaces everywhere but I'm hoping this will still help to get the best out of it that I can.
Looking forward to suggestions 😀
Hi mate, I have Mordaunt Short MS5.30. Difficult to surpass...
From what you say, you want a tested 'KIT' (1), You don't need bass (you have subs for the LF) (2) and probably you can get the drivers from overseas (3?), meaning almost all drivers.
I would call 'ultimate' bookshelf design to my speaker but you can get better sound stage with a floorstanding 3-Way.
I would call the best mid you can find in this case in a KIT that you desire and being a 2-way; a mid-bass then or in a 3-way a mid only, and would go from there. (You don't need fantastic net volume of LF extension).
From what you say, you want a tested 'KIT' (1), You don't need bass (you have subs for the LF) (2) and probably you can get the drivers from overseas (3?), meaning almost all drivers.
I would call 'ultimate' bookshelf design to my speaker but you can get better sound stage with a floorstanding 3-Way.
I would call the best mid you can find in this case in a KIT that you desire and being a 2-way; a mid-bass then or in a 3-way a mid only, and would go from there. (You don't need fantastic net volume of LF extension).
Since a hobby is an interesting waste of time, I wonder if you shouldn't try out your crossover skills with those old Mordaunt Short MS20i?
You've already expressed interest in the Vifa P17 driver. Well, IMO, it's not much different from Robin Marshall's polycone bass unit here. TBH, I never quite buy the first order filter idea. It tends to harshness IMO. And I would be unsurprised to find a mere bass coil and a 3.3uF tweeter capacitor in the MS 20i. But a very nice design IMO.
So the simple filter that ought to be a step up looks like Marshall Leach's design. I'd be more inclined to a third order BW3 filter which worked well enough in the Heybrook HB2.
You really ought to be able to tune well-behaved drivers by ear. Usually just a question of setting tweeter level.
You've already expressed interest in the Vifa P17 driver. Well, IMO, it's not much different from Robin Marshall's polycone bass unit here. TBH, I never quite buy the first order filter idea. It tends to harshness IMO. And I would be unsurprised to find a mere bass coil and a 3.3uF tweeter capacitor in the MS 20i. But a very nice design IMO.
So the simple filter that ought to be a step up looks like Marshall Leach's design. I'd be more inclined to a third order BW3 filter which worked well enough in the Heybrook HB2.
You really ought to be able to tune well-behaved drivers by ear. Usually just a question of setting tweeter level.
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I'd love to learn how to properly design a xover by using actual measured response in their intended enclosure to include baffle interference etc but I have no measuring equipment or a good place to do it (except maybe the theater room as it's quite dead)
I'm sure if I went and bought all tge the gear I could come up with something but I'd really like to know about proven designs that are considered as EXCELLENT in the DIY community. That way I can be fairly confident that what I build is of a high standard and in future I could build my own and use it as a comparison base. Does that make sense?
Would just like one pair of speakers that are really accurate and flat in response without having to shell out mega money for ridiculously overpriced speakers which always have cost of production as an underlying design feature.
I'm handy with wood and have lots of spare time so I can build some nice enclosures, it's the crossover part that I am sub par at! 😀
I'm sure if I went and bought all tge the gear I could come up with something but I'd really like to know about proven designs that are considered as EXCELLENT in the DIY community. That way I can be fairly confident that what I build is of a high standard and in future I could build my own and use it as a comparison base. Does that make sense?
Would just like one pair of speakers that are really accurate and flat in response without having to shell out mega money for ridiculously overpriced speakers which always have cost of production as an underlying design feature.
I'm handy with wood and have lots of spare time so I can build some nice enclosures, it's the crossover part that I am sub par at! 😀
Got a decent sized backyard? Large outdoor spaces are perfect for measuring frequency response.
For measurement equipment look into a cheap measurement mics like the Dayton EMM-6 and a XLR to USB solution like the MXL Micmate. For software, HolmImpulse is free and does the job.
Unfortunately in my backyard i can never be more than about 2m from a colourbond panel of some sort thanks to patio, shed and fencing etc. Theater room would probably be better for midband measurement and its a nice quiet room.
I'll get the gear some day and learn how to do it all myself but still looking for suggestions on the best designs already published. The revelator based troels and zaph systems are looking pretty good so far 🙂
I'll get the gear some day and learn how to do it all myself but still looking for suggestions on the best designs already published. The revelator based troels and zaph systems are looking pretty good so far 🙂
I'd be very tempted to build Jeff Bagby's Kairos, based on Satori drivers. I think Meniscus has the kits. Good read in vendor' bazaar in Joachim Gerhard's thread.
Meniscus has some great kits available, sans cabinets.
DIY Speaker Components | Replacement Speakers | and Speaker kits from Meniscus Audio Group
The three that come to mind, and I've heard or owned each of these, are the Overnight Sensation, The Continuum, and the Speedster.
All three are great speakers.
Mike
DIY Speaker Components | Replacement Speakers | and Speaker kits from Meniscus Audio Group
The three that come to mind, and I've heard or owned each of these, are the Overnight Sensation, The Continuum, and the Speedster.
All three are great speakers.
Mike
Haven't seen that page before, some great looking kits on there!
*Heads off to read every single one* 😀
*Heads off to read every single one* 😀
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