I have a daughter with good ears and an interest in good sound. We have built a couple of Nelson Pass amplifiers (ACA, ACA Redux and M2) and will continue to explore this aspect, but I am interested in building a pair of desktop speakers that would use a ribbon in open baffle and a woofer in an enclosure or SLOB. Can anyone point me to such designs or threads or make other recommendations?
Many thanks in advance
Many thanks in advance
First off the ribbon will need to be dipolar… like the larger Heil.
Many ribbons (most?) are monopoles.
dave
Some size, position, and frequency constraints might help also.
Some people put stand mount sized speakers on their desks, while other people (like me) want something under a liter. Not that I've really gotten under a liter with full enough range . . . .
Some people put stand mount sized speakers on their desks, while other people (like me) want something under a liter. Not that I've really gotten under a liter with full enough range . . . .
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well - smaller is better as far as `extra stuff' for student rooms go. But as a general statement I am open to anything of modest proportions. To go on a desk a footprint of 1/2 sq ft. or less would be ideal. But they could be 2ft tall...?!
I was assuming that at higher frequencies the baffle width can be less and the minimum distance back to the nearest wall (at back of desk?) can also be smaller/less. I assume the enclosure for the woofer would need some volume and was hoping that a small(?) 4" driver would enable an enclosure that is tall/deep (front to back), and narrow to reduce desk space occupancy.
I am not averse to a single full range driver based solution, but my preference based upon my very limited listening experience would be for a ribbon as they seem to offer clarity at higher frequencies that I have not heard from a traditional tweeter cone/dome. Hence the interest.
I was assuming that at higher frequencies the baffle width can be less and the minimum distance back to the nearest wall (at back of desk?) can also be smaller/less. I assume the enclosure for the woofer would need some volume and was hoping that a small(?) 4" driver would enable an enclosure that is tall/deep (front to back), and narrow to reduce desk space occupancy.
I am not averse to a single full range driver based solution, but my preference based upon my very limited listening experience would be for a ribbon as they seem to offer clarity at higher frequencies that I have not heard from a traditional tweeter cone/dome. Hence the interest.
The biggest trouble your going to have is the wild disparity of the two driver sensitivity values...The typical five inch woofers running 85-90 Db, vs. the 92-95 Db values of the dipole ribbons. I simmed up the Morel five-inch CAW-538 and tweaked the numbers to reach down as far as practical. At 11.8 liters in size, I could get down to -3.08 Db @ 43.8 hertz. But that pesky poor sensitivity running at only 86 Db will have you dialing way way back any dipole ribbon.
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Hah. The ones I'm listening to right now use a 76 dB sensitive 2 inch "subwoofer".
I've tried a lot of them, and never got to a single driver solution I was happy with in a very small box on a desk. The Tang Band 2 and 3 inch subwoofers are interesting if you want to go very small, but they do have very low sensitivity, and obviously aren't going to play loud. The 2 inch (W2-2040S) is on clearance at Parts Express, but I'm not sure if it's available elsewhere. The W3-1876S is a little more typical and easier to deal with. Either of those paired with a Peerless TG9FD, Dayton ND64, or Fostex FF85WK and crossed around 2-300 Hz were interesting to me, though obviously not what you had in mind for the project.
The Dayton ND91/Aura NS3 is pretty popular, and would probably do well for a more moderately sized box with a tweeter.
I'll let others handle suggestions for larger woofers.
I've tried a lot of them, and never got to a single driver solution I was happy with in a very small box on a desk. The Tang Band 2 and 3 inch subwoofers are interesting if you want to go very small, but they do have very low sensitivity, and obviously aren't going to play loud. The 2 inch (W2-2040S) is on clearance at Parts Express, but I'm not sure if it's available elsewhere. The W3-1876S is a little more typical and easier to deal with. Either of those paired with a Peerless TG9FD, Dayton ND64, or Fostex FF85WK and crossed around 2-300 Hz were interesting to me, though obviously not what you had in mind for the project.
The Dayton ND91/Aura NS3 is pretty popular, and would probably do well for a more moderately sized box with a tweeter.
I'll let others handle suggestions for larger woofers.
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`not loud' is OK for a desktop system:
A Ears are close so loud is not acceptable, and also loud is not acceptable in a shared house...
B I am not tied to a fleawatt valve amp
C small diameter is potentially good for narrow baffle/smaller footprint.
So if there was a good solution for an OB ribbon and one or two 2 inch woofer(s), it would be interesting.
I am impressively ignorant of modelling the performance of these systems, but I could follow a set of drawings...
A Ears are close so loud is not acceptable, and also loud is not acceptable in a shared house...
B I am not tied to a fleawatt valve amp
C small diameter is potentially good for narrow baffle/smaller footprint.
So if there was a good solution for an OB ribbon and one or two 2 inch woofer(s), it would be interesting.
I am impressively ignorant of modelling the performance of these systems, but I could follow a set of drawings...
These are 2.5 litre and do a ood job on the desktop.
The Scan-Ken for 10F is under a litre, est response from about 120 Hz to 10k only thou.
dave
When I said I could follow a set of drawings I wasn't anticipating something quite as aesthetically pleasing or as tricky as that!
For the best desktop solution to great sound in a small space I would not recommend a DIY solution. A better way to go is a pair of self powered speakers. No separate amp and enough frequency response so that a sub isn't necessary. My favorite way (now playing on my desk) to go is a set of Vanatoo Transparent Zero speakers. Small, great sound and they can support audio inputs for computer sound, a TV, a cell phone and more.
https://vanatoo.com/shop/speakers/transparent-zero/
https://vanatoo.com/shop/speakers/transparent-zero/
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The µFonken (or µMar-Ken with Alpair 5.2/3)also come in more common shapes. Except for the smallest one, they are all 2.5 litre net volume.
And there are a bunch of larger ones.
dave
And there are a bunch of larger ones.
dave
@jim
Building the electronics is not the hurdle, hence self powered speakers are something I would do rather than buy. Daughter #1 will shortly be receiving a pair of X-LS (bookshelf speakers parts kit by GR Research), upon each sits one of a pair of `ACA Redux' Class A amps. They sound great, but in this case I am looking for something that might employ a ribbon for the top end (and I have come to love OB).
Building the electronics is not the hurdle, hence self powered speakers are something I would do rather than buy. Daughter #1 will shortly be receiving a pair of X-LS (bookshelf speakers parts kit by GR Research), upon each sits one of a pair of `ACA Redux' Class A amps. They sound great, but in this case I am looking for something that might employ a ribbon for the top end (and I have come to love OB).
Part of my quest was trying to get enough bass that I'd be happy with a really small speaker without a sub. Good output down to at least 70 Hz was about my threshold for general listening. That obviously won't do for Bass Mekanik, but for lots of jazz, classical, pop, etc., it's fine - especially at work where you can't crank things up anyway.
I also should have said earlier that while I find the full range drivers I mentioned very nice for general listening, when compared to a high resolution system I do find their treble a little lacking in finesse. So I respect the original poster's desire for a higher performance treble solution.
This is what I had in mind for you, the five-inch I described & the GRS ribbon atop, the ribbon in dipole configuration...say 210 mm wide, 280 mm tall, 180 mm deep...or thereabouts.
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Considering the desktop scenario for which this is designed, the pair would likely be a bit toed-in...and the listener is likely tied to their "computer-chair". As such, the horizontal variance AND the vertical variance would be severely limited.
I tried to find some lobing graphs for ribbons....I am aware of the problems with ribbons, the phasing when one listens to "one end" of the ribbon...and listening to the other end...the distance differences from one end to the other depending how much you are off axis. Kinda makes the nearly infinity point source (depending on the VC diameter?) of the full-range driver rather cool huh?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...
I tried to find some lobing graphs for ribbons....I am aware of the problems with ribbons, the phasing when one listens to "one end" of the ribbon...and listening to the other end...the distance differences from one end to the other depending how much you are off axis. Kinda makes the nearly infinity point source (depending on the VC diameter?) of the full-range driver rather cool huh?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Rick...