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Suggest me a build for HD600 headphones

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Gauss1777

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Joined 2010
#1
Greetings people,

I've being researching the net on amps to get the best match for my headphones (Senn HD600). Unfortunately I want to keep this hobby kind to my wallet, that means, I don't want to build/buy more than 1 amp nor swap my headphones, maybe the next year.

I want something like these in this priority order:
1- Sweet Musical mids for clarity on female voices.
2- Fast, defined, precise bass yet a little musical.
3- natural highs for nice classical music listening
4- enough soundstage to identify instruments position, yet not a far away sounding experience, something on the fourth row at most maybe.

I don't know yet how a tube amp sounds, maybe my chance is on a hybrid amp with 2 different flavor outputs. I tried a Lehmann Black Cube Linear amp on the HD600 and HD650 when I bought my headphones. The HD650 were the most sweet experience with slow music like lounge/new age music, but after listening to all my tunes I decided on the average better performance on the HD600 for an all around use. That's what I'm also looking, an all around amp! Something to recover the sweetness on the HD650, rather something still better; while keeping the tighter bass response on the HD600 which I liked for Trance and Metal music. I listen to about anything!

Suggest me something at any price and your experience with this specific headphones on the variety of amps you may have tried to make my mind on sound signature/synergy. I then decide which price to target. 🙂

Thanks! :sing:
 
#5
Your choice depends a bit on your DIY skills since you could go from simple to very elaborate and still have a decent sounding amp.
My recommendation would be C3G triode wired and transformer coupled... low parts count and excellent sonics! But of course there are other choices. You can PM me when you are interested in a schematic...
 
#7
The Aikido looks very attractive from what I see here: 24V Aikido Line Stage and Headphone Amplifier

However I can't find any comparison on sound that includes the Aikido. I have read about the Millet Hybrid amps. The one that caughts my attention is the MOSFET-Max but I don't know what sonical difference would be to the MiniMax using the HD600.

From what I read, MOSFETs would give more slam and warmer bass than BJTs is that right? That maybe gives what I'm looking for, but if that hinders the sweet mids given by tubes, then maybe the MiniMax is the best match.

How would compare the Aikido to a Millet Hybrid?
 
#9
pieter t said:
John Broskie has some very interesting options.
Look at his website John Broskie's Guide to Tube Circuit Analysis & Design for Aikido type amps which can drive the HD600.
His designs are very good; can't go wrong with these.
You can buy PCB's and parts for very reasonably prices.

Stixx, C3g is excellent transformer coupled but has quite some gain for the HD600; maybe the C3m a better option?
Click to expand...

IMO, stay away from Broskie circuits. I also think that a pentode (C3g) is absolutely the wrong thing for a Sennheiser. The C3g sounds in comparison to the 6N1P completely wrong, nasty, unpleasant, nervy, stressed, thin, non-rhythmical, bad & kaputt. Not even useful as a driver for a DHT.
 
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#11
HornTube said:
IMO, stay away from Broskie circuits. I also think that a pentode (C3g) is absolutely the wrong thing for a Sennheiser. The C3g sounds in comparison to the 6N1P completely wrong, nasty, unpleasant, nervy, stressed, thin, non-rhythmical, bad & kaputt. Not even useful as a driver for a DHT.
Click to expand...

Thorens uses the C3G tube in the TEP3800 preamp that cost about 20.000 dollars. I will inform them that they chose the wrong tube. I suppose they have to dump that design.
 
#12
Jaap said:
Thorens uses the C3G tube in the TEP3800 preamp that cost about 20.000 dollars. I will inform them that they chose the wrong tube. I suppose they have to dump that design.
Click to expand...

No wonder that they use the C3g, according to a well known English HiFi Magazine (HiFi-World) Thorens has built one the worst sounding amps of all time!
BTW, Burmester preamps costing €20.000 are built with nasty sounding dirt cheap WIMA caps & Beyschlag resistors costing 0,19cents. Even the chromed front-plate is a disaster.
 
#13
Gauss1777 said:
I want something like these in this priority order:
1- Sweet Musical mids for clarity on female voices.
2- Fast, defined, precise bass yet a little musical.
3- natural highs for nice classical music listening
4- enough soundstage to identify instruments position, yet not a far away sounding experience, something on the fourth row at most maybe.
Click to expand...

Greetings,

Please note that your list of wants exists in the source media, not in the amplifier.

The source replay equipment, amplifier, and headphones can deliver the signal well, or not so well. However an amplifier can not contain 'Sweet Musical mids' or provide 'precise bass yet a little musical'... perhaps you have been reading Stereophile too long?!?

If your budget is limited I suggest that you consider the commercial Schiit Asgard, then upgrade the volume potentiometer, then put some raised feet on it and drill a few more holes in the base to keep it cool. Or transplant the circuit board to a bigger ventilated box, that will help with the heat and also provide room for a toroidal transformer instead of their 'priced down and hence running at the limit' standard transformer.

If you want a tube amp then consider the Hagtech Casternet kit, again with an upgraded volume potentiometer. (Then, if you get more of an upgrade urge, you can start dicking about with LED bias and changing the output transformer to a Sowter 8665...).
 
#14
HornTube said:
I also think that a pentode (C3g) is absolutely the wrong thing for a Sennheiser.
Click to expand...

It is a fact that when connected as a triode the C3g has fine characteristics. (Please refer to Telefunken datasheet).

If you heard a bad C3g circuit, then you heard a bad C3g circuit. However your experience does not change the fact.

Another fact: a tube does not have a sound quality, it has characteristics. The characteristics must be manipulated by the circuit designer with the circuit archtecture / topology.
 
#16
IMO, stay away from Broskie circuits. I also think that a pentode (C3g) is absolutely the wrong thing for a Sennheiser. The C3g sounds in comparison to the 6N1P completely wrong, nasty, unpleasant, nervy, stressed, thin, non-rhythmical, bad & kaputt. Not even useful as a driver for a DHT.
Click to expand...
That is giving me a good laugh in the morning... 🙂🙂
Trying to make a point here, eh?

No further comment 😀
 
#17
Thanks to all, this is a pleasant reading... "Badd & kaput" lol.

Well, I've being reading head-fi, that's why I say I'm looking for something with "sweet mids". I think there's nothing wrong saying that an amp can contribute to the final result in sound, I have an iBasso D12 and have heard a Lehmann Black Cube Linear and I can hear the differences, that's why I believe I need something better for my HD600 and why not tubes? They say: "tubes bring you a lush liquid and sweet sound mainly on mids, strong bass, etc". I can even hear the difference on the iBasso DAC vs an iPod, my PC, my car... well, that's with the same FLACs; even just a program like Foobar 2000 or Rockbox makes an audible difference vs iTunes, etc.

The Bijou has being considered by me, looks nice! The Castanet from what I've read it's a very solid alternative any idea on how much could cost me every of these projects. What about the EHHA hybrid? It seems there aren't still boards and a very active community on this one.
 
#18
Gauss1777 said:
I think there's nothing wrong saying that an amp can contribute to the final result in sound,
Click to expand...

Yes, for sure it contributes to the final result, but it does not contain a specific 'sound quality'. For example, if an amp was 'sweet' in the mid range... then Motorhead played via the amp would have to sound sweet... Metalica would have to sound sweet... etc., etc., and I am sure you understand that this is not the case.

The 'strong bass' that you mention is likely to be from rising low frequency distortion produced in vacuum tube circuit output transformers. It seems as if the ear does not hear the distortion per se, but interprets it as 'a more full bass'. This means that it is more likely in amps with less-than-ideal transformers, hence it can not be stated as a specific quality of all tube amps. If you like the effect that's obviously fine, and it's one of those occasions when less-than-ideal measurements results in a benefit! The problem is that it is not really predictable, as the effect will vary with level.
 
#20
Gordy said:
Yes, for sure it contributes to the final result, but it does not contain a specific 'sound quality'. For example, if an amp was 'sweet' in the mid range... then Motorhead played via the amp would have to sound sweet... Metalica would have to sound sweet... etc., etc., and I am sure you understand that this is not the case.

The 'strong bass' that you mention is likely to be from rising low frequency distortion produced in vacuum tube circuit output transformers. It seems as if the ear does not hear the distortion per se, but interprets it as 'a more full bass'. This means that it is more likely in amps with less-than-ideal transformers, hence it can not be stated as a specific quality of all tube amps. If you like the effect that's obviously fine, and it's one of those occasions when less-than-ideal measurements results in a benefit! The problem is that it is not really predictable, as the effect will vary with level.
Click to expand...

Now this is feedback! From what I've being reading in other places like Head-Fi. Subjectivity comes to play 🙂

Your are right at my use on the word sweet, it says nothing. But o well... just to make my point on what I'm looking for. By sweet mids I mean a sense of "musicality", not a flat sound, something that could be an enjoyable experience by listening to what is normally on the midrange as female vocals; this is important, I used the sweet word to give a compliment to female voices which are normally on the midrange. By sweet I also mean, "kind of warm". Which human wouldn't like to be on home-sweet-home where everything it's pleasant and warmy?

And of course I'm not expecting James Hetfield to sound sweet thanks to an amp lol!! He's better sounding "rough" thanks to a solid state amp while keeping Lars's drums on a fast pace response. Something where I could feel his cold and agressive intention to keep also my cold sight to the guy at my side: "Did you lost something?" Not a sweet and warm hug which I would feel like giving to the girl at my other side 😛

Anyway. It's impossible to tell how music sounds by words but I hope I made my point.

And I'll keep that important statement about tube amps with less than ideal transformers. Maybe an hybrid amp would be the right choice. Maybe another pair of headphones like Ultrasone when I feel like: "Today I need bass!"
 
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