I too have been looking at the Behringer gear recently, and am interested in the A500 amp... I'm also in Melb too, so if anything goes ahead with a group buy, send me an email 🙂
I currently have a JE 350wrms Sub amp module, and although it has plenty of power, the xover really isnt substantial enough. For some reason I seem to get a boost around 100hz, and the bass boost around 35hz probably isnt necessary.
I have to finish up my sub box before I do any further testing...
A cheap alternative could be to buy one of the DSE 2 channel amps, and with slight modifications, these can be bridged.
They have been tested to put out 125wrms @ 1%thd @ 4ohm(cleaner at 120wrms obviously), so would put out in excess of 200wrms into 8 ohm bridged.
Might be worth considering, as these rrp for $199 aud but have been known to be on special for as little as $129 aud.
Good luck with it.
I currently have a JE 350wrms Sub amp module, and although it has plenty of power, the xover really isnt substantial enough. For some reason I seem to get a boost around 100hz, and the bass boost around 35hz probably isnt necessary.
I have to finish up my sub box before I do any further testing...
A cheap alternative could be to buy one of the DSE 2 channel amps, and with slight modifications, these can be bridged.
They have been tested to put out 125wrms @ 1%thd @ 4ohm(cleaner at 120wrms obviously), so would put out in excess of 200wrms into 8 ohm bridged.
Might be worth considering, as these rrp for $199 aud but have been known to be on special for as little as $129 aud.
Good luck with it.
Those are cheap! not sold in NZ.
If they are rated only for 8ohm not 4ohm,when you bridge them then they wont operate well as each amp only sees half the load impedence ie 4ohm. And then youd need a seperate sub filter.
I dont trust my jaycar '350w' amp and want to upgrade to an EP1500 or similar
If they are rated only for 8ohm not 4ohm,when you bridge them then they wont operate well as each amp only sees half the load impedence ie 4ohm. And then youd need a seperate sub filter.
I dont trust my jaycar '350w' amp and want to upgrade to an EP1500 or similar
Those Behringer amps are hard to beat.
Those DSE amps are rated for 8 ohms. You would be mad to try to bridge a pair of them. Firstly it would cost more than a single A500, and secondly the power supply would not be adequate to support bridging. With some modifications you could bridge each amp to mono then use two of them to get 2 channels. But in so doing you are removing warranty also. Why not just spend a few more bucks and get what you want?
Those DSE amps are rated for 8 ohms. You would be mad to try to bridge a pair of them. Firstly it would cost more than a single A500, and secondly the power supply would not be adequate to support bridging. With some modifications you could bridge each amp to mono then use two of them to get 2 channels. But in so doing you are removing warranty also. Why not just spend a few more bucks and get what you want?
Paul
> the power supply would not be adequate to support bridging
I know zilch about the quality of the PS in the A500 - what do we know about the quality of the PS in the A500? On the web?
Cheers
> the power supply would not be adequate to support bridging
I know zilch about the quality of the PS in the A500 - what do we know about the quality of the PS in the A500? On the web?
Cheers
Richard,
I don't believe there is really that much to power supply "quality" except that it should be able to supply the maximum rated power of the amp and deliver sufficient current to do so into the impedance load presented by the speakers. So basically a question of it being big enough. All I have to go on in this regard is a review I've seen of the Europower amps, mine in particular, in which it measured slightly higher than the standard Behringer specs, which would suggest the power supply was adequate.
That said, adequacy of the power supply with a 230w amp used to drive mains in a home environment is not much of an issue. Even if it didn't manage to get above 200w, the difference in output would be minimal.
I think talking about adequacy of a power supply is more of an issue when you are talking about a moderate power amp like a Rotel or a Nad in comparison to a mass market product like a Pioneer. A 40w Nad might perform better than an 80w pioneer due to conservative ratings and a generous power supply. I still have a NAD power amp which has 6db of dynamic headroom. I have never seen any other amp with that much dynamic headroom in their specs!
Considering how much power is on offer here at such a low price, I suppose its wise to avoid counting on every last little bit of power here. I think this is a good idea anyway, plenty of headroom ensures a system won't clip, keeping speakers safe from damage and ears free from fatigue!
This amp isn't the first amp I think of when it comes to driving a sub. I'd prefer to have more power for a sub if you are using a typical sub with a 12" high excursion driver. I wouldn't use it for anything beyond mains or for woofers, although there will be some who will find it a good buy for certain subwoofer applications.
I don't believe there is really that much to power supply "quality" except that it should be able to supply the maximum rated power of the amp and deliver sufficient current to do so into the impedance load presented by the speakers. So basically a question of it being big enough. All I have to go on in this regard is a review I've seen of the Europower amps, mine in particular, in which it measured slightly higher than the standard Behringer specs, which would suggest the power supply was adequate.
That said, adequacy of the power supply with a 230w amp used to drive mains in a home environment is not much of an issue. Even if it didn't manage to get above 200w, the difference in output would be minimal.
I think talking about adequacy of a power supply is more of an issue when you are talking about a moderate power amp like a Rotel or a Nad in comparison to a mass market product like a Pioneer. A 40w Nad might perform better than an 80w pioneer due to conservative ratings and a generous power supply. I still have a NAD power amp which has 6db of dynamic headroom. I have never seen any other amp with that much dynamic headroom in their specs!
Considering how much power is on offer here at such a low price, I suppose its wise to avoid counting on every last little bit of power here. I think this is a good idea anyway, plenty of headroom ensures a system won't clip, keeping speakers safe from damage and ears free from fatigue!
This amp isn't the first amp I think of when it comes to driving a sub. I'd prefer to have more power for a sub if you are using a typical sub with a 12" high excursion driver. I wouldn't use it for anything beyond mains or for woofers, although there will be some who will find it a good buy for certain subwoofer applications.
Richard/Paul,
I've sent the question off to Behringer, so hopefully we'll find out what's in the power supply in the next couple of days.
As the unit is designed for professional use, I'd expect the power supply to be adequate for bridged usage. Also, I've found that Behringers' specs are generally conservative.
I've sent the question off to Behringer, so hopefully we'll find out what's in the power supply in the next couple of days.
As the unit is designed for professional use, I'd expect the power supply to be adequate for bridged usage. Also, I've found that Behringers' specs are generally conservative.
Paul
> I wouldn't use it for anything beyond mains or for woofers, although there will be some who will find it a good buy for certain subwoofer applications
Why do you suggest it’s ok for woofers (maybe down to 40 Hz), but have reservations for subwoofers (eg down one more octave to about 20 Hz)?
Factors in amp PS sound quality include:
- Dependent on drivers being driven - ability to handle low impedance
- Dependent on drivers, above say 80 Hz, excursion may be limited by the amp’s maximum current capability. I don’t know how this can judged by specs.
- Capacitance enough for the drivers, material (amount of bass & general energy) and volume.
An amp can be over specs on watts, but be below par on any of the above. I think there are other factors, but can’t currently recall.
> I wouldn't use it for anything beyond mains or for woofers, although there will be some who will find it a good buy for certain subwoofer applications
Why do you suggest it’s ok for woofers (maybe down to 40 Hz), but have reservations for subwoofers (eg down one more octave to about 20 Hz)?
Factors in amp PS sound quality include:
- Dependent on drivers being driven - ability to handle low impedance
- Dependent on drivers, above say 80 Hz, excursion may be limited by the amp’s maximum current capability. I don’t know how this can judged by specs.
- Capacitance enough for the drivers, material (amount of bass & general energy) and volume.
An amp can be over specs on watts, but be below par on any of the above. I think there are other factors, but can’t currently recall.
Nothing to do with the bandwidth, just that I think more power is most often preferable with high excursion subwoofers. I once heard a comparison of a Tempest sealed subwoofer, one which is not extreme in its power requirement. Powered by a plate amp (I think it had 240w or perhaps 350) it sounded tame in comparison to a Crown K1 with IIRc 500w - there was a clear difference with authority even when played at the same volume. I suspect it may have had to do with dynamic power capability. The difference was quite a bit more than I expected to be possible.
Yes I'm aware of that.
Let's hope Behringers's reply allows us to make some assessment of how "big" their PSs are.
Let's hope Behringers's reply allows us to make some assessment of how "big" their PSs are.
> Unfortunately there isn't anything here that compares well to places like Parts Express.
Alas for those outside the US, due to lost packages/no tracking, Parts Express have recently stopped offering economy surface shipping, and will only use airfreight.
I've heard of a recent quote for US$260 worth of drivers to Oz was $US 280 shipping.
Alas for those outside the US, due to lost packages/no tracking, Parts Express have recently stopped offering economy surface shipping, and will only use airfreight.
I've heard of a recent quote for US$260 worth of drivers to Oz was $US 280 shipping.
Power supply quality and the need for it
A bit more info:
A well controlled power supply means a low impedance supply, requiring
1. large transformers, with a
2. low resistance secondary winding and
3. possibly large capacitors with high capacitance and
4. low ESR.
It could mean the PSU is well regulated. However an unregulated supply has a definite advantage in the peak vs continuous output power.
The tranny is the final arbitrator as to max continuous power,
Big Cs improve transient power and reduce clipping on peaks. The bigger the capacitors, the longer this transient power can be maintained.
It’s the total package that is important.
Even in a home environment, I suspect you can have lots of power, but run short of sustained transient ability (depending on speaker effiency at the freqency, room size, volume, etc).
> adequacy of a power supply is more of an issue when you are talking about a moderate power amp like a Rotel or a Nad
The sound quality of the A500 has been compared to a Rotel or Adcom.
Linkwitz has demonstrated that sealed subs need more power at 100 Hz than at 40 Hz.
I think with much music, most energy, need for power and capacitance is about 60-180 Hz. The bottom octave (20 – 40) is used more for soundtrack effects and the 1812 Overture. Electronic dance is I recall about 40 – 100.
A better amp PS will help with most frequencies from 200 Hz down.
Cheers
A bit more info:
A well controlled power supply means a low impedance supply, requiring
1. large transformers, with a
2. low resistance secondary winding and
3. possibly large capacitors with high capacitance and
4. low ESR.
It could mean the PSU is well regulated. However an unregulated supply has a definite advantage in the peak vs continuous output power.
The tranny is the final arbitrator as to max continuous power,
Big Cs improve transient power and reduce clipping on peaks. The bigger the capacitors, the longer this transient power can be maintained.
It’s the total package that is important.
Even in a home environment, I suspect you can have lots of power, but run short of sustained transient ability (depending on speaker effiency at the freqency, room size, volume, etc).
> adequacy of a power supply is more of an issue when you are talking about a moderate power amp like a Rotel or a Nad
The sound quality of the A500 has been compared to a Rotel or Adcom.
Linkwitz has demonstrated that sealed subs need more power at 100 Hz than at 40 Hz.
I think with much music, most energy, need for power and capacitance is about 60-180 Hz. The bottom octave (20 – 40) is used more for soundtrack effects and the 1812 Overture. Electronic dance is I recall about 40 – 100.
A better amp PS will help with most frequencies from 200 Hz down.
Cheers
- Status
- Not open for further replies.