Hi there,
I am planning on building an active version of this;
B1371 Scan-Speak Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
Using Hypex Fusion 3 way plate amps (probably the 500W version).
However I have a couple of these going spare;
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=LAB_12
that I picked up for only £100 each.
I just wondered how the LAB12 would perform in comparison to the very expensive (£500) scanspeak 13" driver, given the active amplification/EQ and that the LAB12 was designed for a sub.
I could even throw in an extra LAB12 into each speaker at the low cost of £100 each and it would still work out a lot cheaper than the Scan's, and in theory provide a higher output.
Advice appreciated
I am planning on building an active version of this;
B1371 Scan-Speak Kit by Peter Noerbaek - Pair
Using Hypex Fusion 3 way plate amps (probably the 500W version).
However I have a couple of these going spare;
http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=LAB_12
that I picked up for only £100 each.
I just wondered how the LAB12 would perform in comparison to the very expensive (£500) scanspeak 13" driver, given the active amplification/EQ and that the LAB12 was designed for a sub.
I could even throw in an extra LAB12 into each speaker at the low cost of £100 each and it would still work out a lot cheaper than the Scan's, and in theory provide a higher output.
Advice appreciated
The crossover is at 200hz so you should be fine. Bass is all about clean excursion, fancy motors matter less in the bass, you just need enough driver more than anything else. My best subs have been made with pretty pedestrian drivers, and the Lab12 is quite good. The box won't be able to be the same, I'd calculate an optimized sealed box for the Lab12 and EQ it to whatever cutoff you want, given you're active and have 500W per woofer to work with if I understand correctly.
Hi badman, thanks for the advice.
I was planning on what you suggested - sealed box with EQ.
I don't think I'd dream of using passive xover, given the high mms, inductance and low sensitivityetc , but I was hoping could get over the issues by going active.
I was planning on what you suggested - sealed box with EQ.
I don't think I'd dream of using passive xover, given the high mms, inductance and low sensitivityetc , but I was hoping could get over the issues by going active.
This one looks quite reminiscent of Troels's MUN17 - it uses the same Scan-Speak drivers as the B1371, apart from the larger version of the woofer, and also powered by a Hypex plate amp. The Noerbaek has a nice frequency response, but the MUN17 is a very well thought-out design too, and certainly with a different visual aesthetic.
I can't comment on the Eminence woofers as substitutes, though.
Alex
I can't comment on the Eminence woofers as substitutes, though.
Alex
Yes I did notice that the tweet/mid combo had also been used in one of Troel's designs - allbeit with the 8 ohm mid.
My room is quite big (10 x 6m) and I'll be watching quite a few movies so having a pair of LAB12's under the tweet and 7 inch mid should give me plenty of headroom
I figure that because the large scan mid can be crossed over lowish (200-250) the role of the bass drivers is less important?
My room is quite big (10 x 6m) and I'll be watching quite a few movies so having a pair of LAB12's under the tweet and 7 inch mid should give me plenty of headroom
I figure that because the large scan mid can be crossed over lowish (200-250) the role of the bass drivers is less important?
Will the Hypex amp handle 2 of the Eminence drivers in paralllel?
I ask as I'm not familiar with it
I ask as I'm not familiar with it
Eminence LAB12 is 6 ohms, LAB12C is 4 ohms. Two woofers in parallel would be 3 and 2 ohms respectively. The Hypex Fusionamp FA503 wants to see at least 4 ohms, so two woofers in parallel is not a good idea.
As an alternative, two Dayton RSS315HO-44 woofers (dual coil woofer, connect coils in series to get to 8 ohms) can be connected in parallel for a 4 ohm load.
As an alternative, two Dayton RSS315HO-44 woofers (dual coil woofer, connect coils in series to get to 8 ohms) can be connected in parallel for a 4 ohm load.
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Subwoofer drivers mostly have lowish efficiency, but that is not a problem with active+dsp systems. A single 12" sw can easily make 105dB at 30Hz in a typical living room. If you listen to music with stereo, there is no need to double them (total of 4). In a home theater, more benefit comes from added separate subwoofers that are placed around the room (multisub)
I have used SEAS L26ROY and SB29NRX woofers placed in the bottom of boxes, sealed, with Hypex FA123 or ICEpower 125 modules. No need for higher power here.
Response/distortion of a single speaker with SB29/Hypex at 2,7meters in-room (modes included)
I have used SEAS L26ROY and SB29NRX woofers placed in the bottom of boxes, sealed, with Hypex FA123 or ICEpower 125 modules. No need for higher power here.
Response/distortion of a single speaker with SB29/Hypex at 2,7meters in-room (modes included)
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I did think of extra subs, but it's more footprint.
My room is quite large (6x10m) hence why I tought about a bit more power and 2x12
What frequency did you cross over to the woofer??
Well your room is exceptionally large, now I understand you!
The one above is LR 12dB/oct acoustic at 170Hz (4-way), the other around 300Hz, LR2 (3-way)
This is how response gets boosted in-room, with a downfire SB29NRX woofer and distortion. This is 3-way with SB29NRX75-6 (which is not a specific subwoofer but with very low Fs, highish Le and high Xmax)
The one above is LR 12dB/oct acoustic at 170Hz (4-way), the other around 300Hz, LR2 (3-way)
This is how response gets boosted in-room, with a downfire SB29NRX woofer and distortion. This is 3-way with SB29NRX75-6 (which is not a specific subwoofer but with very low Fs, highish Le and high Xmax)
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Hi,
I do not see the point of building a B1371 kit unless one is specifically seeking a passive loudspeaker built around expensive Scan Speak units. Explore the dsp capabilities to the farthest extent possible, first.
I do not see the point of building a B1371 kit unless one is specifically seeking a passive loudspeaker built around expensive Scan Speak units. Explore the dsp capabilities to the farthest extent possible, first.
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Well I suppose I was just after a good quality dedicated mid-range unit and tweeter to go with it.
I already had in mind the scan drivers before stumbling on the B1371 / Troels MUN17. I wouldn't say they are very expensive compared to my main system, or even an entry level pair of commercial speakers - even a used set.
My benchmark will be my main system B&W 803D3 (driven by Classe M400s) which I assume use very high quality drivers. I'd happily take advice on different mid/tweet combo but figured the scans can't be a bad place to start??
I've spent a few hundred hours reading up on x-over design and playing about with x-sim, but have decided to go active since;
o I don't already have amplification
o I've got the flexibility to experiment
o I have a iNuke 3000DSP and have enjoyed tinkering with my sub setup on the fly
I'd be interested in what you mean by;
"Explore the dsp capabilities to the farthest extent possible, first"
I already had in mind the scan drivers before stumbling on the B1371 / Troels MUN17. I wouldn't say they are very expensive compared to my main system, or even an entry level pair of commercial speakers - even a used set.
My benchmark will be my main system B&W 803D3 (driven by Classe M400s) which I assume use very high quality drivers. I'd happily take advice on different mid/tweet combo but figured the scans can't be a bad place to start??
I've spent a few hundred hours reading up on x-over design and playing about with x-sim, but have decided to go active since;
o I don't already have amplification
o I've got the flexibility to experiment
o I have a iNuke 3000DSP and have enjoyed tinkering with my sub setup on the fly
I'd be interested in what you mean by;
"Explore the dsp capabilities to the farthest extent possible, first"
It means, believe in shaping the driver response, and not the driver itself. I have advised many times, the brand name is not really a concern. A lot of these are capable, so pick a favorite that you like.
The 803d3s use high quality drivers but b&ws crossover is a joke. The speakers leave a lot to be desired in terms of ease of room integration and neutrality.
Expect a well designed DIY affair to sound quite different. If you like the b&w house sound then you'll dislike a truly neutral speaker, then again most people end up preferring neutrality.
Expect a well designed DIY affair to sound quite different. If you like the b&w house sound then you'll dislike a truly neutral speaker, then again most people end up preferring neutrality.
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