Hello,
I have one JBL 2214H twelve inch driver that I need some help
designing a subwoofer enclosure. The T/S spec's are: Fs~ 23 Hz,
Vas~ 7.9 ft^3,Qms~ 10.9,Qts~ 0.24,Qes~ 0.25,Pd~ 200w,Re~ 5.6, X-max~ 0.22 inches,Spl~92dB. Thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
Cambe😎
I have one JBL 2214H twelve inch driver that I need some help
designing a subwoofer enclosure. The T/S spec's are: Fs~ 23 Hz,
Vas~ 7.9 ft^3,Qms~ 10.9,Qts~ 0.24,Qes~ 0.25,Pd~ 200w,Re~ 5.6, X-max~ 0.22 inches,Spl~92dB. Thanks in advance.
Sincerely,
Cambe😎
This isn't much of a sub driver. About the best you can do WRT tradeoff between BW and efficiency is a Daline type design, but without measured specs it could be pain for you to tune if the specs were off much. Even then, we're talking about a high F3 around 60Hz with a Fb = Fs.
GM
GM
GM,
Check your driver. With BBP, I'm getting f3 anywhere from 28 to 40s. With a 6db low frequency shelf, I can get f3 down to the teens (19Hz @ 107db) in a 200l box. All ported of course.
Check your driver. With BBP, I'm getting f3 anywhere from 28 to 40s. With a 6db low frequency shelf, I can get f3 down to the teens (19Hz @ 107db) in a 200l box. All ported of course.
The specs Cambe has given are different to the standard in Unibox. For example, Qms is much higher.
Using Cambe's T/S parameters I get:
80 Litre ported enclosure
Tuned to 34.26Hz
f3 = 35Hz
~115db SPL max, starts dropping at ~45Hz
102db @ 25Hz (within excursion)
I can get simular results with BBP. The JBL T/S table has Qms at 10.5 same as BBP. As a mater of fact, all of the values that Cambe gave match pretty well with BBP.Vikash said:
Hello Rodd,GM and Vikash.
Thank you all for your help! I,m looking for a enclosure size of about a small refrigerator. A ported box would be fine. The f3~ 35 HZ, looks very promising. Now,what dimensions should I use for
the box? Port diameter and length also.With your help,I will finally
get this speaker playing. Which will make my wife happy. She,will
not ask me everytime she dust's when are you going to use this.🙂
Sincerely,
Cambe
Thank you all for your help! I,m looking for a enclosure size of about a small refrigerator. A ported box would be fine. The f3~ 35 HZ, looks very promising. Now,what dimensions should I use for
the box? Port diameter and length also.With your help,I will finally
get this speaker playing. Which will make my wife happy. She,will
not ask me everytime she dust's when are you going to use this.🙂
Sincerely,
Cambe
At work now
Well, I'm at work now so I don't have my BBP available to me. I'll look again tonight, butthis is what I remember.
In a 150l box with a port 4" in diameter and 7" long (sch 40 PVC) you will get an f3 in the low 30's and a flat FR. Tuning below this could get you into the excursion limit of the driver on power peaks. More tonight.
Well, I'm at work now so I don't have my BBP available to me. I'll look again tonight, butthis is what I remember.
In a 150l box with a port 4" in diameter and 7" long (sch 40 PVC) you will get an f3 in the low 30's and a flat FR. Tuning below this could get you into the excursion limit of the driver on power peaks. More tonight.
>GM,
Check your driver. With BBP, I'm getting f3 anywhere from 28 to 40s. With a 6db low frequency shelf, I can get f3 down to the teens (19Hz @ 107db) in a 200l box. All ported of course.
====
Hmm, the specs I have are close, except Qms is 10.5 and Xmax is 0.26", certainly 'close enough' to those listed and a bit less excursion restricted.
Anyway, I get a max flat of 1.51ft^3/38.44Hz Fb with a 6.17"d x 31.64"L vent, already technically in Daline design territory. In 200L I see nothing but an unacceptable (to me) underdamped shelved response (EBS) until Fb is >20Hz so 16Hz seems an appropriate Fb, but then f3 = 76Hz and becomes increasingly Xmax limited below ~53Hz. Vent length jumps to 69.14"L.
If you want this driver to do sub duty, then you can have Daline performance in a medium size cab, or large, but the results are ~the same. Or just go with the EBS and use dual PRs.
If it's only expected to do the musical BW sans organ or HT special effects, then a smaller cab tuned higher sufficies, but F3 is still fairly high and with a long vent. 3ft^3/27Hz/7"d x 42.25"L vent looks good on paper.
====
>In a 150l box with a port 4" in diameter and 7" long (sch 40 PVC) you will get an f3 in the low 30's and a flat FR. Tuning below this could get you into the excursion limit of the driver on power peaks.
====
All I see is a severely underdamped alignment. You can aperiodically damp the system to critically damp it, but F3 jumps way up and the LF response rolls off more abruptly than a Daline to too high a Fb for above average music reproduction IMO.
====
>Thank you all for your help!
====
You're welcome!
====
> I,m looking for a enclosure size of about a small refrigerator. A ported box would be fine.
====
That's where the specs are taking us, in one alignment or another. 😉
====
>The f3~ 35 HZ, looks very promising.
====
Too high IMO, but it's your 'sub'. 🙂 You'll need some form of EQ to roll off the signal below Fb if you play orchestra, some R&R, etc..
====
> Now,what dimensions should I use for
the box? Port diameter and length also.
====
Depends on which design you choose and whether or not you decide to buy two PRs.......
GM
Check your driver. With BBP, I'm getting f3 anywhere from 28 to 40s. With a 6db low frequency shelf, I can get f3 down to the teens (19Hz @ 107db) in a 200l box. All ported of course.
====
Hmm, the specs I have are close, except Qms is 10.5 and Xmax is 0.26", certainly 'close enough' to those listed and a bit less excursion restricted.
Anyway, I get a max flat of 1.51ft^3/38.44Hz Fb with a 6.17"d x 31.64"L vent, already technically in Daline design territory. In 200L I see nothing but an unacceptable (to me) underdamped shelved response (EBS) until Fb is >20Hz so 16Hz seems an appropriate Fb, but then f3 = 76Hz and becomes increasingly Xmax limited below ~53Hz. Vent length jumps to 69.14"L.
If you want this driver to do sub duty, then you can have Daline performance in a medium size cab, or large, but the results are ~the same. Or just go with the EBS and use dual PRs.
If it's only expected to do the musical BW sans organ or HT special effects, then a smaller cab tuned higher sufficies, but F3 is still fairly high and with a long vent. 3ft^3/27Hz/7"d x 42.25"L vent looks good on paper.
====
>In a 150l box with a port 4" in diameter and 7" long (sch 40 PVC) you will get an f3 in the low 30's and a flat FR. Tuning below this could get you into the excursion limit of the driver on power peaks.
====
All I see is a severely underdamped alignment. You can aperiodically damp the system to critically damp it, but F3 jumps way up and the LF response rolls off more abruptly than a Daline to too high a Fb for above average music reproduction IMO.
====
>Thank you all for your help!
====
You're welcome!
====
> I,m looking for a enclosure size of about a small refrigerator. A ported box would be fine.
====
That's where the specs are taking us, in one alignment or another. 😉
====
>The f3~ 35 HZ, looks very promising.
====
Too high IMO, but it's your 'sub'. 🙂 You'll need some form of EQ to roll off the signal below Fb if you play orchestra, some R&R, etc..
====
> Now,what dimensions should I use for
the box? Port diameter and length also.
====
Depends on which design you choose and whether or not you decide to buy two PRs.......
GM
Hello GM,
I just want the enclosure that will work the best with this driver,without PR's or EQ's.
This driver is used in JBL's " Jubal ". I had pair of them 20 years ago. This one was ordered from JBL as a replacement driver. The foam surrounds had to be replaced. kerosene heater fumes had
alot to do with it. As I learned later.
🙂
Sincerely,
Cambe
I just want the enclosure that will work the best with this driver,without PR's or EQ's.
This driver is used in JBL's " Jubal ". I had pair of them 20 years ago. This one was ordered from JBL as a replacement driver. The foam surrounds had to be replaced. kerosene heater fumes had
alot to do with it. As I learned later.
🙂
Sincerely,
Cambe
Hi Cambe,
I think what I'm leaning towards is something that is probably close to what you would have had in the original Jubal boxes (maybe a little bigger).
I like 100l (3.5cu.ft.) tuned to 32Hz with a port os 4"dia and 5.63" long. BBP shows a 1db/octave slope in the FR from 200 down to ~40Hz. The f3 is about 32Hz and you're only slightly excursion limited 40 to 50Hz. This means that you can't put more then about 100W to the driver or it will start to go out of the magnetic gap (excursion greater then X-Max). The The X-Max is 6.6mm but the mechanical limit is 9.9mm. Basically, you can run at full power at 115db (per speaker) except between 40 and 50 Hz where the max SPL will fall to 112db Still pretty substantial).
This is not what you would call an awesome subwoofer by todays standards, but it's respectable for a 70's 12" woofer. You'll miss very little musical content with an f3 of 32Hz. The bass guitar's lowest note is 40Hz and a grand piano's loest note is 27Hz.
I think what I'm leaning towards is something that is probably close to what you would have had in the original Jubal boxes (maybe a little bigger).
I like 100l (3.5cu.ft.) tuned to 32Hz with a port os 4"dia and 5.63" long. BBP shows a 1db/octave slope in the FR from 200 down to ~40Hz. The f3 is about 32Hz and you're only slightly excursion limited 40 to 50Hz. This means that you can't put more then about 100W to the driver or it will start to go out of the magnetic gap (excursion greater then X-Max). The The X-Max is 6.6mm but the mechanical limit is 9.9mm. Basically, you can run at full power at 115db (per speaker) except between 40 and 50 Hz where the max SPL will fall to 112db Still pretty substantial).
This is not what you would call an awesome subwoofer by todays standards, but it's respectable for a 70's 12" woofer. You'll miss very little musical content with an f3 of 32Hz. The bass guitar's lowest note is 40Hz and a grand piano's loest note is 27Hz.
>Hello GM,
I just want the enclosure that will work the best with this driver,without PR's or EQ's.
====
Evening,
Trouble is, best for what? If max power handling regardless of how little deep LF output it will have, I would go with a max flat that allows for some VC heating since I assume you will be driving it hard enough to use it somewhere near its capability, or ~2.86ft^3 net/~31.5Hz Fb, ~35.5Hz F3. Ideally the vent needs to be 6.29"d x 24.78"L, but accepting a small amount of vent compression drops it down to a 5"d x 14.95"L one. This one would be Xmax limited in the ~39-65Hz BW, but not Xsus, so you should be able to overdrive it up to its 200W power rating. Some form of 'rumble filter' will be needed for the <27Hz BW if you have any source material that goes this low before we can make any recommendations.
For a lower Fb at the expense of power handling, you will have to tell us how low and/or how much power handling you are willing to sacrifice to get it.
GM
I just want the enclosure that will work the best with this driver,without PR's or EQ's.
====
Evening,
Trouble is, best for what? If max power handling regardless of how little deep LF output it will have, I would go with a max flat that allows for some VC heating since I assume you will be driving it hard enough to use it somewhere near its capability, or ~2.86ft^3 net/~31.5Hz Fb, ~35.5Hz F3. Ideally the vent needs to be 6.29"d x 24.78"L, but accepting a small amount of vent compression drops it down to a 5"d x 14.95"L one. This one would be Xmax limited in the ~39-65Hz BW, but not Xsus, so you should be able to overdrive it up to its 200W power rating. Some form of 'rumble filter' will be needed for the <27Hz BW if you have any source material that goes this low before we can make any recommendations.
For a lower Fb at the expense of power handling, you will have to tell us how low and/or how much power handling you are willing to sacrifice to get it.
GM
JBL 2214-H
Cambe;
The JBL 2214-H's were used in the 4425 Bi-Radial Studio Monitors. The 2214-H is still available from JBL as I purchased a pair from them 1 year ago. I have a Pdf file for the 4424 Bi-Radial monitor if you are interrested. I can't attach it to this post, but if you email me, I will send it to you.
Doug
Cambe;
The JBL 2214-H's were used in the 4425 Bi-Radial Studio Monitors. The 2214-H is still available from JBL as I purchased a pair from them 1 year ago. I have a Pdf file for the 4424 Bi-Radial monitor if you are interrested. I can't attach it to this post, but if you email me, I will send it to you.
Doug
Hello Rodd and GM,
I will probably be using a plate amp of some sort. They have some
EQ and maybe a subsonic filter also.
GM,the 5"d x 14.95"L port,do they make 5" PVC pipe?
I'm still open for suggestions.😎
I will probably be using a plate amp of some sort. They have some
EQ and maybe a subsonic filter also.
GM,the 5"d x 14.95"L port,do they make 5" PVC pipe?
I'm still open for suggestions.😎
Morning,
Yes, it's available here, but if not in your area, then just make a square or rectangular equivalent area one from scrap wood.
GM
Yes, it's available here, but if not in your area, then just make a square or rectangular equivalent area one from scrap wood.
GM
Hello,
I will now try to understand what to do. I am very grateful to all for your efforts and support.
Sincerely,
😎 Cambe
I will now try to understand what to do. I am very grateful to all for your efforts and support.
Sincerely,
😎 Cambe
Cambe said:
I'm interested in this thread as well. I have a pair of JBL 126A's which were used in the original L65 Jubal speaker, and I can't find any T/S parameters for them. I just got done re-coning the 126A's, and I am really itching to put them in to something. Also, which version of the L65 did you have? The L65 used the 126A L65 Jubal. The L65A used the 122A L65A Jubal. The L65B used the 129H L65B Jubal. The external dimensions of all three of these is 24-1/2" X 17-1/2" X 13-1/8" (622mm X 445mm X 333mm). I believe the wall material is 3/4" of an inch thick. This should get you a good starting point for your "Jubals."
Oh yeah.......😎 I also have a few of the JBL LE5-2 AlNiCo midranges to go with my AlNiCo 126A drivers. I don't think I want to use the 077 drivers for my tweeters though. I might go with a ribbon, or a newer extended range dome or ring radiator. That should give me quite a system. Don't ya think?
Cheers,
Zach
Re: JBL 2214-H
Now just replaced those 2416H compression drivers with a 2426H, and we're in business. They might actually have a top end to them.
Cheers,
Zach
Doug said:Cambe;
The JBL 2214-H's were used in the 4425 Bi-Radial Studio Monitors. The 2214-H is still available from JBL as I purchased a pair from them 1 year ago. I have a Pdf file for the 4424 Bi-Radial monitor if you are interrested. I can't attach it to this post, but if you email me, I will send it to you.
Doug
Now just replaced those 2416H compression drivers with a 2426H, and we're in business. They might actually have a top end to them.
Cheers,
Zach
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