You might be surprised to see what kind of power a lot of these super cheap amps actually deliver. I don't know anything about the ones you linked specifically, but car audio manufacturers are not shy at all about marking an amplifier 600/1200 watts when what you get is barely ~150.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKHkR_yL8C4
The point is, a good part of the time when you get a decent name brand amplifier that seems expensive, sometimes, what you're paying for isn't the name, but a lack of lies.
Yeah, I know, that's why I specifically look at the fuse, I don't even look at the power specs. If you know the fuse and amp class (to determine probable efficiency) then you have a pretty good idea of how much power it can put out. The fuse size is never used for marketing and it can't be oversized or things will burn so it's a pretty reliable predictor of output.
Both these amps have 120 amp fuses. I'm pretty sure they can put out more than 150 watts.
With JL you are always just paying for the name, their stuff is all absurdly expensive.
Both these amps have 120 amp fuses. I'm pretty sure they can put out more than 150 watts.
With JL you are always just paying for the name, their stuff is all absurdly expensive.
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True, they're a bit much sometimes. When I'm asked, I generally favor Rockford...ever since the Hafler days. I've got a couple of the little 750 Prime amps that SMD has tested as well that'll do over 1Kw before they reach 1% distortion.
As far as marine goes, I really have no idea what constitutes "marine" but if I was a manufacturer, it'd probably be circuits and connectors with corrosion resistant coatings if they're meant to live in extreme humidity. *shrug*
I guess now that I think of it, the RF Prime 750d I mentioned would probably not be a terrible recommendation. At $350 msrp, they can usually be had a bit cheaper if you look around...however as you mentioned fuses, I think their protection is electronic, as they don't have any fuses at all.
This thread says that Boss is junk which agrees with what I've seen of their speakers:
BOSS AR4000D Amplifier, Any Good? - General Audio - Can't find a category for your question? Ask here. - SMD Forum
They suggest this amp, I know nothing about it:
Crescendo Audio BC2000D - 2250 watts x 1 Mono Block Bass Clef Series Amplifier - SSA STORE
They also suggest something like this for economical power but again I have no direct experience with them:
Hifonics BRX2000.1D 2000W RMS Class-D Monoblock Brutus Series Amp
I'd use a pair with 2 ohm loads on each.
BOSS AR4000D Amplifier, Any Good? - General Audio - Can't find a category for your question? Ask here. - SMD Forum
They suggest this amp, I know nothing about it:
Crescendo Audio BC2000D - 2250 watts x 1 Mono Block Bass Clef Series Amplifier - SSA STORE
They also suggest something like this for economical power but again I have no direct experience with them:
Hifonics BRX2000.1D 2000W RMS Class-D Monoblock Brutus Series Amp
I'd use a pair with 2 ohm loads on each.
Context is useful here. First, that's a forum filled mainly with 18 year olds that have no idea what they are talking about.
Second, the OP has a RE XXX sub, one of the most expensive drivers on the market. Pairing it with one of the cheapest amps on the market has probably offended the sensibilities of subsequent posters.
Third, they continually mention it's junk but no one mentions a reason why they think that. It's because they have no proof, it's just something they heard.
Fourth, one of the guys mentioned he heard someone tested it and it only did 500 watts or something. I'll eat my hat if that's true.
And finally, you can't judge an entire brand of products. Some brands don't make ANY of their own products, they just buy stuff and slap their name on it. I recently had a Planet Audio amp where this was the case, the same internals were used in amps from every name from Soundstream to Boss if I remember correctly, and the companies selling the amp with exactly the same internals rated them to put out between 1250 and 3600 watts, if I remember correctly. Exactly the same amp with a different case. I don't know if BOSS makes any of their own stuff, but probably not so you have no idea who designed it or how good (or bad) it might be.
If you do want to avoid Boss though, Hifonics is a more popular brand name that sells stuff at value pricing.
Any of the big names have no value except resale value. It's a market dominated by 18 year olds after all, brand name is what people pay for. JL, Rockford, and companies like that are just overpriced. But they do hold resale value quite well.
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My previously mentioned Planet Audio amp lived in the trunk of my car, as amps are known to do sometimes. Every single morning it would be soaking wet and literally dripping from condensation (except in winter). Never had a problem with that amp. I had occasion to open it up before selling it, no visible problems anywhere on any components, on the board, the connectors were fine, and the little internal fan was still happily making way too much noise for my taste. Great little amp, extreme humidity was no problem. I don't think it's any issue at all really for any amp. But even if it was these amps are just pocket change so it's not too hard to have an extra one on hand if the first one fails.
I missed where he said he had an RE XXX...Yeah, I'd be inclined to stick with good, solid amplifiers in the 50-60 cents per watt range.
18 year olds aside, I'd lean more toward trusting someone on SMD's forum if they claim something is junk. A lot of these guys, regardless of age, are running 30 and 40 kW systems, some of which are driven to the point of destruction / rebuild for each competition. Yes, Boss is a brand I'd stay away from, along with pretty much everything else that has made an appearance on wal-mart shelves.
18 year olds aside, I'd lean more toward trusting someone on SMD's forum if they claim something is junk. A lot of these guys, regardless of age, are running 30 and 40 kW systems, some of which are driven to the point of destruction / rebuild for each competition. Yes, Boss is a brand I'd stay away from, along with pretty much everything else that has made an appearance on wal-mart shelves.
There's nothing to disagree about. If you don't want to buy BOSS there are other options, the market is completely saturated. That amp probably wouldn't be my first choice either, I was making a point by posting low cost amps in the kw power range.
As I mentioned, Hifonics is a solid choice and the Hifonics amp you linked to looks pretty good. 200 amp fuse class D monoblock for a bit over $200. That amp would wipe the floor with the JL amp that was mentioned, and it's several times less expensive.
But like I said, unless you do some research you don't know who made that amp either. Could have come from anywhere and rebranded as Hifonics. But for that price it doesn't really matter.
18 year olds aside, I'd lean more toward trusting someone on SMD's forum if they claim something is junk. A lot of these guys, regardless of age, are running 30 and 40 kW systems, some of which are driven to the point of destruction / rebuild for each competition. Yes, Boss is a brand I'd stay away from, along with pretty much everything else that has made an appearance on wal-mart shelves.
I'll just say that I wouldn't take anything I saw on a car audio forum too seriously. There are a few people that know what they are doing, a few people that measure and actually know what they are talking about. But they are few and far between.
I'd have to say that if they destroy their system every time they take it out they clearly don't know what they are doing. Most of the guys that actually win the competitions don't ever (or very rarely) blow anything up. There are threads on this very forum with car audio guys building boxes without simulating (or knowing anything at all about properly sizing a box) and lining them with shelf lining paper because they think it's going to be louder. And posting links back to the SMD forum as proof that it worked for this one guy this one time, when the guy in the link clearly didn't know what he was doing either. This isn't atypical, it's the norm. Car audio guys are generally known for their culture of ignoring the science completely and relying on hype and word of mouth from other clueless people to form opinions. There are exceptions but not many. It's an industry dominated by 18 year old male consumers, what do you expect?
I like watching the hair trick videos and seeing what these guys are up to but I certainly wouldn't take any advice from the vast majority of them.
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Surely that's not anything near an RMS power figure. Even discounting the mechanical output of the speakers (15% would be generous), that's still the equivalent of a horde of electric space heaters in an enclosed area. You'd get cooked inside in short order.
You might be surprised. Some of these guys run up to 10 high output alternators (240 amp or more each) and use 10 or more high excursion sealed 18s and a truckload of amps. There's a bunch of documentation all over the internet, youtube videos with hair tricks, levitating pop cans (floating in the air) windshields destroyed by bass, all that fun stuff. All it takes is a fat wallet. Lots of kids have way too much money.
Just in case you haven't seen this type of thing before here's a quick and amusing video, less than 30 seconds long. There's millions of these videos, thousands of guys with systems like this, and this isn't even a big system by any means, I just picked this one because it's funny. The big competition systems don't even try to go low like this one, they just focus on loud, and they get up over 170 db, doors bolted and welded shut, concrete lined vehicle body, etc, this is serious stuff in some circles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJYxrpcV8M
And another 40 second video, this one specifically says it's 40000 wrms, whether or not it actually is I don't know but it is amusing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reX6G2wkkAw
Just one more for now, it's a bit longer but the hairstyling is almost artistic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjyjyXI0MdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJYxrpcV8M
And another 40 second video, this one specifically says it's 40000 wrms, whether or not it actually is I don't know but it is amusing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reX6G2wkkAw
Just one more for now, it's a bit longer but the hairstyling is almost artistic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjyjyXI0MdA
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To the OP the TC Sounds Epic 12 should drop in and give you about 6 dB more displacement limited output. These are some serious subs!:
TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer
TC Sounds Epic 12" DVC Subwoofer
Oh, absolutely, as far as building proper subwoofer cabinets, most of them are laughably wrong, as they usually don't try for smooth response or quality in any way. Usually, the box is built in whatever shape will look the best or be the craziest before a driver is picked. In some of Steve's vids, you can hear him say things like "Wow, this box really likes 50 hz" ..implying there was no simulation or math at all, more like building a counter top and sticking in a sink.
What I would trust them at though, is the electronic stuff. They've usually got a pretty good handle on which amplifiers are easy to smoke, and which ones have a reputation for being able to take some punishment.
Edit: Here's a good example of the attitude most have toward enclosures:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gT7pdBN9Z4
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I think a big problem is power rating on some of the less expensive amps. The BOSS I linked to is rated at 4000 watts (max). It likely says 4000 right on it in big numbers, I didn't look too close. Most companies would probably rate it at 1500 watts or less (my old Planet Audio amp was rated at 1250 watts max and it had the same 120 amp fuse).
In that context I could understand why people would call it garbage, it definitely won't complete with other amps from other brands that say 4000 on the case, but if you compare price to actual measured watts it's probably a screaming bargain.
If you don't know the context of the comment or know anything about the person making the comment, the comment itself really isn't worth anything. In this case, unless you know something I don't, the only thing we really know is where those comments are coming from, and I don't feel even a bit bad being prejudiced about them for that alone.
Like Pete, I probably wouldn't buy BOSS anyway, not when I've had very good experience with Planet Audio, and when Hifonics is ~ the same price, but if I had to choose between the BOSS and the JL amp (for anything other than resale value) I'd go with the BOSS. Bigger fuse almost always means more power out when the amp class is the same.
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Looks like ultra high inductance (and probably highish q) drivers in a what appears to be a massively undersized ported box, which is probably giving a 20 - 30 db peak about an octave above tuning, and that's in free space. Couple that to the vehicle's resonant frequency and you get a one note wonder that will blow your head right off. If I'm not mistaken those drivers are rated for 5000 rms each, so the main limit is port compression, and that's probably not a huge issue either since his peak is happening an octave above tuning and he'll only choose tracks that show off the peak in response.
It's actually pretty clever if that's what you want. This is how the Kicker manufacturer recommended ported enclosures work, it's why mediocre woofers with 13 mm xmax sell for $500 each. They can be pretty impressive on certain tracks if you design for a massive peak.
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Yeah, I guess that's about right. I guess I'm really sketchy on some of the cheaper brands, despite fuse ratings. One of my friends has me help with work on his audio gear, and last year we went through 3 amplifiers in a span of half as many months. The first one was a Boss..I don't remember the wattage rating, but it was over 1kW. That one just snapped one day..fuses intact. Then we went shopping for another one that was in the 25 cents per watt range, a Power Bass unit.., which lasted all of about 20 minutes..again, fuses intact. We replaced it with another one under warranty, which did run for a little over a month, but in the end, it quit as well. Stank of burned electronics, and again, fuses intact.
I guess I've just come to trust JL and Rockford, and I've had decent luck on another install with an older Phoenix Gold Tantrum, which despite being over a decade old, is still trucking along and being abused on nearly a daily basis.
I guess my point is you have to be really careful with car amps...manufacturers will pull out all the stops to ensure costs are minimized, while using tiny millisecond burst 1khz tones to inflate power ratings, or using 1 ohm figures when the amplifiers aren't really suited or stable. A good percentage of the time, as far as car amplifiers go, you often get what you pay for if you're willing to go with a good, solid (and slightly more expensive) brand with a good reputation and realistic power ratings.
It doesn't have to be a Mosconi Zero 1, but if someone has already spent nearly 1k usd on a driver, I would probably stick with a recommendation of good, solid, proven power.
Now that I think of it, SoundQubed makes some decent amplifiers, and for an RE-XXX, the 2200.2 might be a solid choice as well.
Q1-2200.2
I guess I've just come to trust JL and Rockford, and I've had decent luck on another install with an older Phoenix Gold Tantrum, which despite being over a decade old, is still trucking along and being abused on nearly a daily basis.
I guess my point is you have to be really careful with car amps...manufacturers will pull out all the stops to ensure costs are minimized, while using tiny millisecond burst 1khz tones to inflate power ratings, or using 1 ohm figures when the amplifiers aren't really suited or stable. A good percentage of the time, as far as car amplifiers go, you often get what you pay for if you're willing to go with a good, solid (and slightly more expensive) brand with a good reputation and realistic power ratings.
It doesn't have to be a Mosconi Zero 1, but if someone has already spent nearly 1k usd on a driver, I would probably stick with a recommendation of good, solid, proven power.
Now that I think of it, SoundQubed makes some decent amplifiers, and for an RE-XXX, the 2200.2 might be a solid choice as well.
Q1-2200.2
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