I guess the question is how loud / low you want to listen ? and of course your budget....
100% agree with Dave on the BR stuff..
Rob.
100% agree with Dave on the BR stuff..
Rob.
Well it is for a small room(13'x14') HT and a little music; however, my wife and I do not like it really loud. I do like it accurate and low. I have a generous budget but I don't think $800 to $900 per driver makes much sense in this situation...or does it?
Ray
Ray
I should have also asked how much space you have. Driver cost depends on the app. I use 2 labhorns, the driver cost to you would be about $500 as a rough guess. They are huge though.
A 'decent' sealed system would probably cost more but take up less space. (would also lack the output of the horns, but have more bass extension)
I've always fancied making a sub with the peerless xls series of drivers. They model well in tiny cabinets and that means you can multiple them up in small spaces. 4 xls 12's per side, push push should be pretty interesting.
Rob.
A 'decent' sealed system would probably cost more but take up less space. (would also lack the output of the horns, but have more bass extension)
I've always fancied making a sub with the peerless xls series of drivers. They model well in tiny cabinets and that means you can multiple them up in small spaces. 4 xls 12's per side, push push should be pretty interesting.
Rob.
I am limited to a 14" wide and 24" tall front on the cabinets; the depth is 30" or less. This allows them to serve as sofa end tables. I don't think that the 12" drivers will conform to this dimension restriction or will it; if so are the Vifa's preferable to the 12" Scan-Speaks?
Ray Collins said:
You should be able to -- just -- make a 12 fit into a 14" wide cabinet (i assume you need to put the driver on a 14" face?) I am hot on the new 12" from CSS. It would be easy enuff to rejig the aspect ratio of the sealed sub to meet your dimensional requirements -- i think you'd even have room to do a push-push per side -- with sufficient power 4x12" should move enuff air to make your smallish room bulge if needed -- 4 even fit into your budget.
SubDuction Data
16" cube plans
dave
disclosure... i will be selling these -- a 2nd woofer to add to the Extremis in my limited line-up
Attachments
Thanks Dave. How important is it to use the Golden Ratio in the re-configuration of the box?
Ray
Ray
Ray Collins said:
In a sub -- not very important at all. Everything happening inside is much higher in frequency than the sub will produce (excite), and from the outside the box the driver does not see the box.
The biggest concern is detailing the mounting so that it fits in 14". If i was doing push-push i might even consider 15mm sides.
dave
Dave,
I understand; I suppose that an additional 1/2" to make it 14.5" wouldn't matter.
I could mount the drivers on the wide sides of the enclosure which would also solve the breathing problem. In this orientation would it matter that one of the drivers would be firing into the arm of the sofa?
Ray
I understand; I suppose that an additional 1/2" to make it 14.5" wouldn't matter.
I could mount the drivers on the wide sides of the enclosure which would also solve the breathing problem. In this orientation would it matter that one of the drivers would be firing into the arm of the sofa?
Ray
You might find yourself exciting the sofa... is there any clearance at all?
And you wouldn't be able to do push push (you need probably 20" to do that)... i'd just fit it into 14".
dave
And you wouldn't be able to do push push (you need probably 20" to do that)... i'd just fit it into 14".
dave
Would it work if the drivers were offset but still magnet-to-magnet? The centerline thrust of the drivers would not be in the same plane but it would still be push-push.
Ray
Ray
Ray Collins said:
Usually you have to couple the magnets with a brace, so if that brace is quite rigid you should get most of the effect.
dave
That is what I thought Dave. They will be offset but snugly integrated with a rigid brace which should preserve the desired physics.
I started a new thread on recycling Bozak drivers which I thought would garner your interest. Do you have any T/S parameters on them? They are getting plentyful on Ebay.
Ray
I started a new thread on recycling Bozak drivers which I thought would garner your interest. Do you have any T/S parameters on them? They are getting plentyful on Ebay.
Ray
Are there paticular types of drivers that prefer a Push-Push system, like highly effeciant or low QTS for example? What is the sound advantage of a Push-Push system over standard single driver in a ported box.
I am asking because I am looking into building a sub to with my pair of Harveys and subs seem much more complicated to me for some reason. I saw the Harveys and instantly knew that is what I wanted, and I do not understand all the subwoofer stuff well eneough to have that moment.
I am asking because I am looking into building a sub to with my pair of Harveys and subs seem much more complicated to me for some reason. I saw the Harveys and instantly knew that is what I wanted, and I do not understand all the subwoofer stuff well eneough to have that moment.
germpod said:
No... push-push is a mechanical arrangement that cancels the newtonian motion of the drivers so that it is not passed onto the box.
Quite a bit more downward dynamic range, less box sound.
dave
Thanks Dave.
I am going to look into it a bit more to gain better understanding of subs as a whole. They seem to have different properties than mid range drivers so you have to design differently.
I am going to look into it a bit more to gain better understanding of subs as a whole. They seem to have different properties than mid range drivers so you have to design differently.
It isn't that the properties are different... just the scales. A loudspeaker needs to be considered in the light of the frequencies it reproduces. Unique to a sub is that the wavelengths tend to be much larger than the box or the driver.
dave
dave
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