Hi Everyone!
Currently I am using Yamaha HS80m's in my recording studio to mix on. They are of course not ideal and I would like to replace them. With that said I am curious if building my own 3-way speakers would yield a better quality sound at a lower cost than buying manufactured monitors. At this point I have spent hours researching DIY speakers and the component prices very wildly. With that said I am going to give an example from "mid-grade" line to see what it would compare to. Lets say I was to purchase Dayton Audio's 7" and 5-1/2" Esoteric drivers a AMT1-4 Air Motion Transformer tweeter and one of their 3-way crossovers. (building my own is an option) With binding posts these components will run me about $934 to build a pair. Of course using drivers like SEAS or Scan Speak the prices keep going up. I would still need a decent rack mount amp for $400 so we are talking probably $1600 to build. The Adam A77x's run about $2200 a pair, Avantone Abby are $2k a pair, Event has the 2030 for $1000 a pair but I am not sure how much of an upgrade they are. So would the DIY speakers give my the A77x's or equivalents performance?
Lastly, there are not very many 3-way reference monitors on the market without spending thousands which is not in my budget hence the build idea, but do I even need a 3-way? It is my understanding that the less frequencies a speaker is asked to produce the better the sound. I know there are trade offs, but to get the truest representation of my mixes wouldn't that be better?
Thanks,
Greg
Currently I am using Yamaha HS80m's in my recording studio to mix on. They are of course not ideal and I would like to replace them. With that said I am curious if building my own 3-way speakers would yield a better quality sound at a lower cost than buying manufactured monitors. At this point I have spent hours researching DIY speakers and the component prices very wildly. With that said I am going to give an example from "mid-grade" line to see what it would compare to. Lets say I was to purchase Dayton Audio's 7" and 5-1/2" Esoteric drivers a AMT1-4 Air Motion Transformer tweeter and one of their 3-way crossovers. (building my own is an option) With binding posts these components will run me about $934 to build a pair. Of course using drivers like SEAS or Scan Speak the prices keep going up. I would still need a decent rack mount amp for $400 so we are talking probably $1600 to build. The Adam A77x's run about $2200 a pair, Avantone Abby are $2k a pair, Event has the 2030 for $1000 a pair but I am not sure how much of an upgrade they are. So would the DIY speakers give my the A77x's or equivalents performance?
Lastly, there are not very many 3-way reference monitors on the market without spending thousands which is not in my budget hence the build idea, but do I even need a 3-way? It is my understanding that the less frequencies a speaker is asked to produce the better the sound. I know there are trade offs, but to get the truest representation of my mixes wouldn't that be better?
Thanks,
Greg
Hi Greg, I am a musician, have worked on a recording studio, and I love to build my own audio electronics so I thougt I could give you my opinion.
If you make money from your studio (either from your own or someone´s else music), then don´t embark on an adventure with diy monitors. Get the Adams or something that can be considered a reference. I bet the Adams will be a big upgrade from two way yamahas.
Otherwise, if it´s all hobby, why not? It will not be easy to produce a reference speaker but you will sure learn trying.
(I never build speakers but I plan to.)
If you make money from your studio (either from your own or someone´s else music), then don´t embark on an adventure with diy monitors. Get the Adams or something that can be considered a reference. I bet the Adams will be a big upgrade from two way yamahas.
Otherwise, if it´s all hobby, why not? It will not be easy to produce a reference speaker but you will sure learn trying.
(I never build speakers but I plan to.)
Oh, and absolutely, choose by ear your monitors if you are buying them! Listen to your references on them... Obvious I know, but it must be said🙂
Careful with the 'wow' factor... Usually the speakers that impress on a first listen, are not the neutral, non-fatiguing ones that you want (to work long hours with).
Edit: I just checked the adams and realized that they´re two way, and have two mids, one on each side of the tweeter - I have my objections to that! I could be wrong, but that doesn´t seem like it will have a good dispersion pattern and off axis response.
Careful with the 'wow' factor... Usually the speakers that impress on a first listen, are not the neutral, non-fatiguing ones that you want (to work long hours with).
Edit: I just checked the adams and realized that they´re two way, and have two mids, one on each side of the tweeter - I have my objections to that! I could be wrong, but that doesn´t seem like it will have a good dispersion pattern and off axis response.
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"With that said I am curious if building my own 3-way speakers would yield a better quality sound at a lower cost than buying manufactured monitors."
If you find a well done design to build, it is generally thought that you can beat commercial speakers in quality / dollar, depending on how much you value your time... Though if you think of monitors as separate from regular hi-fi speakers then you should look for a design that follows your own philosophy. I mostly see designs on line that are conceived from a hi-fi point of view.
"Lets say I was to purchase ... and one of their 3-way crossovers."
A well designed speaker will have a crossover which is specific to the drivers involved. Care must also be taken with the design of the box you put your drivers in. If you don't have experience with this sort of thing look for published speaker designs. It ain't simple, it's best to start just executing someone elses design. Here are a couple of places to start:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
Zaph|Audio
And of course there are lots of designs listed here.
"... but do I even need a 3-way?"
Reducing the bandwidth a speaker needs to cover can reduce it's IM distortion, it's true. Another related factor is the volume you're playing at. Your own situation will dictate what is best. If you are sitting near the speakers in a DAW type case you maybe don't need the volume, and multiple drivers might not integrate as well if you are close. If you are far away in a big room and need lots of volume then you might need the 3-way. 3-way crossovers are more complex to design, though.
Many people want to start with big systems, but simpler ones are easy to get right. Some of the full range setups on this site would be appropriate for sitting nearby at a desk, and are relatively cheap and easy. I personally would be nervous to spend $$$$ on a project I had little knowledge or assurance about.
Some reading around here will point you in the right direction.
If you find a well done design to build, it is generally thought that you can beat commercial speakers in quality / dollar, depending on how much you value your time... Though if you think of monitors as separate from regular hi-fi speakers then you should look for a design that follows your own philosophy. I mostly see designs on line that are conceived from a hi-fi point of view.
"Lets say I was to purchase ... and one of their 3-way crossovers."
A well designed speaker will have a crossover which is specific to the drivers involved. Care must also be taken with the design of the box you put your drivers in. If you don't have experience with this sort of thing look for published speaker designs. It ain't simple, it's best to start just executing someone elses design. Here are a couple of places to start:
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy
Zaph|Audio
And of course there are lots of designs listed here.
"... but do I even need a 3-way?"
Reducing the bandwidth a speaker needs to cover can reduce it's IM distortion, it's true. Another related factor is the volume you're playing at. Your own situation will dictate what is best. If you are sitting near the speakers in a DAW type case you maybe don't need the volume, and multiple drivers might not integrate as well if you are close. If you are far away in a big room and need lots of volume then you might need the 3-way. 3-way crossovers are more complex to design, though.
Many people want to start with big systems, but simpler ones are easy to get right. Some of the full range setups on this site would be appropriate for sitting nearby at a desk, and are relatively cheap and easy. I personally would be nervous to spend $$$$ on a project I had little knowledge or assurance about.
Some reading around here will point you in the right direction.
Hi Guys,
Thanks for the responses...
Alexandre, I guess those A77X's are a 2.5 way. Which sort of defeats the purpose in my mind. *Shrug*
AdamThorne, Thanks for the info and links. I have previously visited the first one but had not yet seen the other. I will go through it. Thanks!
Micheal, yes they will be for near field listening.
Based on what is already mentioned here maybe it is best to buy a pair reference monitors. At least I will know they have been engineered well. 🙂 With that said maybe I will spend a few hundred and build a set of bookshelf speakers to check my mixes on.
Currently I am semi-retired and in school for audio engineering. While the studio I have now is small and only capable of small guitar/singer style recordings I will be building a dedicated studio after the new house is built. Anyway, this is what I am working with for the time being.
Thanks for the responses...
Alexandre, I guess those A77X's are a 2.5 way. Which sort of defeats the purpose in my mind. *Shrug*
AdamThorne, Thanks for the info and links. I have previously visited the first one but had not yet seen the other. I will go through it. Thanks!
Micheal, yes they will be for near field listening.
Based on what is already mentioned here maybe it is best to buy a pair reference monitors. At least I will know they have been engineered well. 🙂 With that said maybe I will spend a few hundred and build a set of bookshelf speakers to check my mixes on.
Currently I am semi-retired and in school for audio engineering. While the studio I have now is small and only capable of small guitar/singer style recordings I will be building a dedicated studio after the new house is built. Anyway, this is what I am working with for the time being.
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A very nice space Greg, looks like you´re taking care of most of the early reflections... except for the console surface! Many engineers are so used to that one they don´t even bother. I would prefer to place the speakers on stands, a bit behind the console. Requires a lot more space, I know...
I tried... The room has some weird shapes and not at all ideal for treatment. Since this picture was taken I have added some nice decouplers under the monitors which has reduced vibrations in the desk a lot, not reflections though. :-( I am considering moving the monitors onto stands as you suggested even though it will change the equilateral triangle. I will just need to slide back a bit to verify the mix...
Another reason for new monitors: I was looking for a front ported design to reduce the boundary effect off the back wall that amplifies the low frequencies....
Another reason for new monitors: I was looking for a front ported design to reduce the boundary effect off the back wall that amplifies the low frequencies....
What's the thingy with Adam? Their designs seem slightly overrated to me. Stick to companies that really put effort in R&D.
I'm no Genelec groupie but that company is way beyond driver fetish which seems selling argument number one with lots of them out there. Front port design, ever heard of port resonances and enclosure leaks? I would hesitate to pick a design that not adressed such problems properly. Good reading here comes from KEF on their LS50-design at http://www.kefamerica.com/july12/LS50 White Paper.pdf.
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Besides that I would stick to companies which have not filed for bankruptcy:
RA News: Adam Audio files for bankruptcy
The KEF LS50's look very promising indeed. I would need an external amp to power them and a sub to fill in the lows which adds to the budget. What I do find curious however is that they are marketed as studio monitors and yet I cannot find one image (other than their marketing images) of the LS50's in a studio anywhere, professional or home. I also do not find them for sale in music stores or even reviewed by audio engineers. This makes me question their role as a reference source. I am not saying they could not be used for that, but if they are that good why aren't other engineers raving about them?
Holy Shyte! 😱 Thanks for the heads up!
zman, That is the first I have heard of them.... I went to their website to check them out. Probably way out of my price range. Trying to stay under 2K.
If you are seriously considering LS50s I'd suggest checking out Neumann KH120s.
Cost about the same, are active and very low distortion.
Before I'd consider Amphions I'd look at these kits for a similar form factor, a substantially lower price and arguably better drivers:
STUDIO 1
STUDIO 2
I have yet to see any convincing evidence that their One12 differs from their Ion+ in any way and they don't look pretty whrn it comes to THD:
SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Amphion Ion+ Loudspeakers
Cost about the same, are active and very low distortion.
Before I'd consider Amphions I'd look at these kits for a similar form factor, a substantially lower price and arguably better drivers:
STUDIO 1
STUDIO 2
I have yet to see any convincing evidence that their One12 differs from their Ion+ in any way and they don't look pretty whrn it comes to THD:
SoundStageNetwork.com | SoundStage.com | NRC Measurements: Amphion Ion+ Loudspeakers
Under 1K build one of these
SEAS-3-Way-Classic-mkII
ScanSpeak-3W-Discovery
under 2K:
Ellam-FLEX-3W
SP44
I have since stumbled across convincing evidence that the Ion+ and One12 are in fact identical.
"Es folgt ein interessanter Mailwechsel mit Anssi Hyvonen... Und tatsächlich sind die ION+ technisch nichts anderes als die Amphion One12, Nahfeldmonitore für den professionellen Einsatz."
(An interesting email exchange with Anssi Hyvonen followed... And indeed the Ion+ are technically nothing but the One12, nearfield monitor for pro use."
from here:HIFISTATEMENT | netmagazine - NuForce DDA-100 + Amphion ION+
I have very little experience recording in studios from a long time ago, and from what I remember the monitors and reference speakers used in those studios took a lot of abuse. Hot vocals, sudden feedback, the loud hum of a guitar suddenly being unplugged. Perhaps you can provide greater control over such circumstances in your studio, I just thought I would throw this out for your consideration in your quest to buy or build...
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