in putting together the ingredients to have a good crossover/speaker measurement and design station, some doubts are emerging about the various connections between the sound card and the speakers.
and if instead of using active speakers (which I do not own) but which I see most people using, I exit the computer with the USB sound card (new), go to an amplifier and then to the passive speakers? (just completed)
could this be a valid path?
and if instead of using active speakers (which I do not own) but which I see most people using, I exit the computer with the USB sound card (new), go to an amplifier and then to the passive speakers? (just completed)
could this be a valid path?
thnakU mark,
and so far so good 🙂
so theoretically I could use the video card as a pre and connect it to a power amplifier?
(this would avoid the purchase/project I had in mind to make a hybrid one)
if the audio card manages a power amplifier well, I would have an old school LINN and also a Quad that could drive my 2-way to dedicate to the computer for all the various tests.
and so far so good 🙂
so theoretically I could use the video card as a pre and connect it to a power amplifier?
(this would avoid the purchase/project I had in mind to make a hybrid one)
if the audio card manages a power amplifier well, I would have an old school LINN and also a Quad that could drive my 2-way to dedicate to the computer for all the various tests.
Pay attention to the (required) reference levels. Not every video or audio card can drive a power amp to the max. And the other thing is: be cautious with your volume control.
I have a project in mind that involves my amplifier (top-level car audio) which as a precaution I will pass through a double pre to be safe on the levels.
👍
👍
to simplify the measurement and listening equipment in the station, maybe and I say - maybe - I will take the active speakers.
omg, I have always hated them.
don't you also think that the amplified speakers are acid, cold and too shrill?
omg, I have always hated them.
don't you also think that the amplified speakers are acid, cold and too shrill?
I was thinking, I was reflecting... if by putting my hands on a Creative 5.1 audio system, modified in 2.1 by placing two satellites one above the other and changing the cut of the low/low satellite to remove all the highs above 900hz (the satellites are coaxial) I have given a certain balance to the sound of this system that I bought many years ago, why not take two active speakers and in case if they were acid, give them a certain balance?
what do you think about this
what do you think about this
to make you understand how I feel after listening to my reference hi-fi system and then I turn on the PC one even with all the possible modifications:
immediately open the window and throw it out. even with a 24bit 192khz file
😆
immediately open the window and throw it out. even with a 24bit 192khz file
😆
When you connect a speaker directly to an amp, the bass may be slightly reduced. You can prepare for this by designing it for more bass, or it can be equalised. You might try adding a small amount of resistance between the amp and speaker if you find yourself in that situation and want a quick fix.
Allen, you just saved me and confirmed asking other questions in fact this bass thing came out when I added the Zobel with the yellow cones experiment. but it's not just the bass that I don't trust in actives, I don't know how to explain it... in my opinion they need to be driven better than these Class D with 4 2cm capacitors, they just lack current and control.
No. An active set of loudspeakers that find their way into monitoring duty in, for example a recording studio, are all about 'closing the gap' between the live performance in the room and what comes out of the speakers. To reveal everything possible so the engineer/s can (hopefully) make the recording as good as the art demands. It's generally accepted that the 'weakest link' in the entire audio chain are the loud speakers. Loudspeakers designers know this, with many routes to better this goal endlessly pursued.
The passive crossover is a notoriously inefficient thing, with many additional compromises made. Can we get rid of this? Is the question, whose answer is yes. Active Loudspeakers. They get rid of the long runs of wiring, the passive crossover entirely, being tuned to each individual driver. Each individual driver is supplied only with the bandwidth of frequencies that it performs the best within, the specific upper and lower 'roll off' curves of this frequency bandwidth are optimised actively, ridding the need for passive filters, being more efficient. Each driver has its own amplifier, which only outputs the optimised profile best for the loudspeaker it's driving. These active amps are typically mounted on the rear of the loudspeaker. This method results in unforgiving, revealing and accurate sound reproduction that will show up any faults in the audio chain and usually very unpleasantly when you first begin on this journey,
also known as the 'monitoring approach'.
This can also be achieved by using an active crossover management system within a conventional system, as long as you remove the passive crossovers, driving direct. Question the price point/ relative gains for such a move. The thing that blew me away when using one of these was you could alter every imaginable parameter, this made a huge difference in quality when you altered the 'crossover' for different volume levels!
Yeah! I know that feeling.
Computers and their Switched Mode PSU's are noisy as is the inside of a computer not optimised for audio. Many audio output cards sound crap unless you choose one with good reviews from the pro audio guys (there are usually very few reasonably priced ones) they don't put up with crap.
This may be another perspective for you:
What might be interesting is to find out the frequency response curves of the drivers; the crossover points and their 'roll off' characteristics ( these will also be different 'in' the cab, as they are designed with the cabinet). Output four signals from your card, equalised to these optimised profiles of the drivers, remove the old passive crossovers, drive them directly from your amps and very carefully control the volume, you might want to ensure some kind of limiting function on the output to ensure they are within the dynamic range of the loudspeaker.
The less 'chains' in your monitoring system the better.
Also, if you chose to bi-amp with your Quads / Linn, the line levels would need to be checked to be similar to each other, adjusting for that, One set of amps will be better for bass one will be better for treble. If you have something that has one PSU per channel, dedicate that to the bass.
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@Earths
interesting analysis, but in the end there is still a problem, the problem of problems - the one for which I and many others think of these amplifiers mounted on the back of the speakers - which themselves become the real weak part of the chain and consequently worsen the sound quality of these speakers making them unsuitable for listening to the sound of real musical instruments.
easy equation:
poor amplifier == poor performance of the best reference speakers.
interesting analysis, but in the end there is still a problem, the problem of problems - the one for which I and many others think of these amplifiers mounted on the back of the speakers - which themselves become the real weak part of the chain and consequently worsen the sound quality of these speakers making them unsuitable for listening to the sound of real musical instruments.
easy equation:
poor amplifier == poor performance of the best reference speakers.
Conclusion - do not use bad amplifiers as in the active or passive.
But in a multi-band active, the requirement for the quality of the amplifier is reduced if the frequency range of the amplifier is reduced. Let's say that a bad amplifier working in the entire band will show itself a little better if it works on a limited frequency band. This statement is also true, if the amplifier shows itself well on the entire frequency band, then in a limited frequency band it can show itself even a little better.
Please expand jeffrowland
The only thing that jumps out at me with that arrangement as a disadvantage ( when designed as an integral unit) is the vibration component, that has to have long term stability effects on the PCB and microphonics on some components.
But this is what this is all about, the most advantages and the least disadvantages. The gains of active crossovers are palpable.
Linn Isobariks mounted their passive crossovers under the cabinet mechanically disconnected. An interesting observation by them.
ATC and PMC, which I've heard with good source, are astonishing. ATC SCM-100 ASLT Not a fan of tuned portal resonances, but wow.
BTW not an analysis, three decades of experience in audio, pro audio, studio/ live recording, Public Address systems and of course HiFi
When the truth occurs you hear it, we are 'hard wired' to !
There is a lot more than 'meets the ear' in my initial post, maybe sleep on it.
The only thing that jumps out at me with that arrangement as a disadvantage ( when designed as an integral unit) is the vibration component, that has to have long term stability effects on the PCB and microphonics on some components.
But this is what this is all about, the most advantages and the least disadvantages. The gains of active crossovers are palpable.
Linn Isobariks mounted their passive crossovers under the cabinet mechanically disconnected. An interesting observation by them.
ATC and PMC, which I've heard with good source, are astonishing. ATC SCM-100 ASLT Not a fan of tuned portal resonances, but wow.
BTW not an analysis, three decades of experience in audio, pro audio, studio/ live recording, Public Address systems and of course HiFi
When the truth occurs you hear it, we are 'hard wired' to !
There is a lot more than 'meets the ear' in my initial post, maybe sleep on it.
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@uriy-ch
I understand everything, but a poor amplifier remains poor and in my long experience in esoteric audio and long listening with different electronics I have come across expensive devices, but with a poor sound. maybe a good sound, but there is no history with hi-fi devices that weigh even 50kg.
and then these speakers sound a bit acid and cold.
I understand everything, but a poor amplifier remains poor and in my long experience in esoteric audio and long listening with different electronics I have come across expensive devices, but with a poor sound. maybe a good sound, but there is no history with hi-fi devices that weigh even 50kg.
and then these speakers sound a bit acid and cold.
When I hear that, my first check is the digital source. Square waves pick up noise any where and everywhere, clean power supplies make a big difference.
Linn and Quad are not poor amps. Any amp will sound bad if not well matched to the source and also the speakers.
Perhaps if you want others to 'chime in', a better description of your arrangement may help.
It's not a configuration issue that I'm basing my reasoning on, but I've been able to listen to some active speakers and I just don't like the sound. Without naming names, but they are quite used and famous.
It remains a complicated decision, but the two passive speakers just completed on LS 3/5a boxes (different drivers) sound divine after a long work on the crossover and this was done at almost zero cost because I had all the materials at home.
It remains a complicated decision, but the two passive speakers just completed on LS 3/5a boxes (different drivers) sound divine after a long work on the crossover and this was done at almost zero cost because I had all the materials at home.
While you made a good point in general, this above is not the complete truth. I’d rather say, the loudspeaker-room interface is the weakest point.