Gets worse as you grow older
The problem is exacerbated for older people as the ears can't adjust fast enough to loud sounds (I paraphrase, and maybe badly.)
Amateur violinists are often just not tuned, and cannot tune their finger positions ( I certainly couldn't when I tried to learn in my youth.)
Listening live is so dependent on the hall acoustics. Gloucester Music Society used the Cathedral Chapter House one season; stone floor walls and ceiling. Even a professional string trio sounded LOUD, and quite unpleasant.
Andy
You are not alone. Many CD quality recordings are poor. Hi-res. downloads are better. Driver resonances are a problem in that register.
The problem is exacerbated for older people as the ears can't adjust fast enough to loud sounds (I paraphrase, and maybe badly.)
Amateur violinists are often just not tuned, and cannot tune their finger positions ( I certainly couldn't when I tried to learn in my youth.)
Listening live is so dependent on the hall acoustics. Gloucester Music Society used the Cathedral Chapter House one season; stone floor walls and ceiling. Even a professional string trio sounded LOUD, and quite unpleasant.
Andy
I recommend to listen indian music.
I felt wired in tuning when I start to listening them.
But later I could enjoyed and started to understand difference between them in tuning.
I think classical music have developed by equal temperament also gone chaos for it have made by
equal temperament.
That's why jazz and complexed sounds better than simple music in equal temperament because it's not natural temperament.
I love both.
I felt wired in tuning when I start to listening them.
But later I could enjoyed and started to understand difference between them in tuning.
I think classical music have developed by equal temperament also gone chaos for it have made by
equal temperament.
That's why jazz and complexed sounds better than simple music in equal temperament because it's not natural temperament.
I love both.
Ii is a wrong theory, but this also happens With live violins, so the HF response of my ears could be off or have distortion
True, but it is only multiple violins playing the same note. Never (v rarely) happens with pianos, but could have exactly the same problem if they did
This is only with multiple violins playing the same note, and is the same for live and recorded, so it's definitely me
Thanks everyone, HF response and/or distortion of my ears are most likely. Can ears distort?
Brian
Yes ears can distort but i won't suspect it at first:
To have a string ensemble to be perfectly tuned is difficult: instruments moves with humidity and temperature, players may not hear themself as they should, sometimes dissonances are parts of the score or composer goal ( a bit out of tune ( some cents) help to give a chorus effect,).
Have you pitch perfect ears? I had a friend which had it and it was a nightmare for him...
Otherwise it could be hyperacusis. Are you bothered by low level sounds in the same frequency range which is totally acceptable for others? Do you have some tinitus? Both usually go in pair.
To have a string ensemble to be perfectly tuned is difficult: instruments moves with humidity and temperature, players may not hear themself as they should, sometimes dissonances are parts of the score or composer goal ( a bit out of tune ( some cents) help to give a chorus effect,).
Have you pitch perfect ears? I had a friend which had it and it was a nightmare for him...
Otherwise it could be hyperacusis. Are you bothered by low level sounds in the same frequency range which is totally acceptable for others? Do you have some tinitus? Both usually go in pair.
I hesitate to ask, but are you in the "elderly" stage of life? This is a problem I have noticed more since I passed 70. I could cope with my daughter's piccolo quite easily in my middle age.
If not, then you have my sympathy.
Andy
Hyperacusis is possible and I will look into this thanks
I am 54, but no idea where that puts me hearing wise. I sometimes work in noisy environments (printing presses), but always wear hearing protection. I may not have been so careful when I was younger, and used to go to nightclubs and gigs quite often
I can hear up to 10kHz, but it drops off fairly quickly after that
Brian
I am 54, but no idea where that puts me hearing wise. I sometimes work in noisy environments (printing presses), but always wear hearing protection. I may not have been so careful when I was younger, and used to go to nightclubs and gigs quite often
I can hear up to 10kHz, but it drops off fairly quickly after that
Brian
Yes, especially in the point of view of those who claim they can hear in which direction a signal cable is plugged in between a signal source and the amplifier.
Best regards!
Best regards!
L. v. Beethoven, Violin sonatas (complete) / Arthur Grumiaux violin, Clara Haskil piano
Recorded in 1956 and 1957 and originally released on LP by Philips, then on CD in 1994 (part of Philips 442685)
Then re-released (3 ADD CD set) in 2007 by Decca - 475 8460 and by Brilliant Classics – 93329
Check those please. Totally different sound (on same aged ears🙂).
George
scottjoplin,
the violin is the most remarkable musical instrument, but its splendours emerge solely in the right hands.
the violin is the most remarkable musical instrument, but its splendours emerge solely in the right hands.
THE TECHNOLOGY CHANGES THE SONICS
Hardly surprising that each edition of an analogue recording has different sonics based on a number of reasons, ranges from the analogue to digital chips (CD ESPECIALLY) To engineer Masters performance and their preferred sonic signatures. As a former reviewer ,It was sometimes very easy to identify a number of the labels home sound...Some did not care for purity or possible fidelity to the original. This applied more to download sites and Almost every track on one American site mastered to 0db. As this has lower distortion, so they were told. Yep distortion digitally is the inverse of distortion analogue . In the early days very low level fade outs of piano notes were curtailed as it was too noticable, same with solo violins. . Various technigues to mask these effects were used..
. The level the recording was mastered at for each CD re release. Different jitter rates are one of a number of reasons.
Even when converted to genuine hi resolution which includes Dsd64 Dsd 128 and 24/96 their will be a sonic difference. The filters on these playback machines will also be different.
Not all genuine hirez playback machines are equally as good at all music technologies.
The deterioration, if it was originally recorded on any 16 bit machine will obviously be a lot less if you try to convert it into a higher res format. ?
Mostly the change in sonics then will be down to the higher level filters as against brick wall distortion induced by CD blubook standards. . Not to mention error correction effects..
oops not to mention them?..
This is fun but has been discussed since cd inception several decades ago.
Not much has changed.
Hardly surprising that each edition of an analogue recording has different sonics based on a number of reasons, ranges from the analogue to digital chips (CD ESPECIALLY) To engineer Masters performance and their preferred sonic signatures. As a former reviewer ,It was sometimes very easy to identify a number of the labels home sound...Some did not care for purity or possible fidelity to the original. This applied more to download sites and Almost every track on one American site mastered to 0db. As this has lower distortion, so they were told. Yep distortion digitally is the inverse of distortion analogue . In the early days very low level fade outs of piano notes were curtailed as it was too noticable, same with solo violins. . Various technigues to mask these effects were used..
. The level the recording was mastered at for each CD re release. Different jitter rates are one of a number of reasons.
Even when converted to genuine hi resolution which includes Dsd64 Dsd 128 and 24/96 their will be a sonic difference. The filters on these playback machines will also be different.
Not all genuine hirez playback machines are equally as good at all music technologies.
The deterioration, if it was originally recorded on any 16 bit machine will obviously be a lot less if you try to convert it into a higher res format. ?
Mostly the change in sonics then will be down to the higher level filters as against brick wall distortion induced by CD blubook standards. . Not to mention error correction effects..
oops not to mention them?..
This is fun but has been discussed since cd inception several decades ago.
Not much has changed.
Thanks for your help , i corrected the problem , it was the length of the strings.This his what happens to you when you havent played in almost 20 years , you forget these things...😀😀😀
Glad to be helpful.
I would like to be able to play a fretless correctly once in my life... even when i played regularly i wasn't able to do it. 😱
The strings action is higher because you dont have the frets , it´s a good training , then when you play a freted bass you are so pleasead with the low action...😀😀😀
Dosnt the orchestra tune to the piano (which varies with temp, etc.)?
Why would you want every violin exactly in tune? It would sound like one large violin, not a section.
I thought most people with perfect pitch wernt bothered by bad tuning?
An interesting vid on perfect pitch.
Are There Different Levels of Perfect Pitch? - YouTube
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With a concert orchestra it’s the oboe that plays the A
With smaller orchestras, in leu of an oboe, another woodwind instrument, else a violin.
It's only with singing (lead) that the pianist gives the tuning note to the singer.
George
Hi, yes the orchestra could be tuned to a piano but the question is how the piano is tuned?
There is different scales of tuning to a piano and sometimes the A is not exactly 440hz and intervals can have variation too ( i think there is a message from Kai Pirinha which talk about it earlier in the thread).
About violin section it is better to have them in tune. There is rarely only stradivarius in the section ( differents instruments from differents makers) and so there is different sounds to make an ensemble. And there will be some tuning variation anyway as once played they won't stay tuned usually. But i agree a bit out of tune makes a 'larger' rendering. Same principle apply to 12 strings guitars.
Not my experience about perfect pitch. Most musicians i've met which had were very sensible to it. Even more when playing classical music.
But i'm not one of them hence i'm an hopeless case for fretless! ( and i can't help myself, as soon i've got one in hand i love makes 'singin' whales' sounds... and it doesn't suits every tracks! 😉 ).
There is different scales of tuning to a piano and sometimes the A is not exactly 440hz and intervals can have variation too ( i think there is a message from Kai Pirinha which talk about it earlier in the thread).
About violin section it is better to have them in tune. There is rarely only stradivarius in the section ( differents instruments from differents makers) and so there is different sounds to make an ensemble. And there will be some tuning variation anyway as once played they won't stay tuned usually. But i agree a bit out of tune makes a 'larger' rendering. Same principle apply to 12 strings guitars.
Not my experience about perfect pitch. Most musicians i've met which had were very sensible to it. Even more when playing classical music.
But i'm not one of them hence i'm an hopeless case for fretless! ( and i can't help myself, as soon i've got one in hand i love makes 'singin' whales' sounds... and it doesn't suits every tracks! 😉 ).
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