I've been playing all summer with horns. I have a mould for a 170hz tractrix that i plan to use down to 300hz. But i still need to decide what i will use under it.
I would like to have a single unit in order to keep the filter "tube friendly".
I have no experience with passive filter, and i'm far away from owning enough amps to go active....
A tapped horn would be nice, but i have yet to see one that goes to +300hz.
A conical horn will be .......huuge.
A ported box will be...dull and inefficient.
some help?
I would like to have a single unit in order to keep the filter "tube friendly".
I have no experience with passive filter, and i'm far away from owning enough amps to go active....
A tapped horn would be nice, but i have yet to see one that goes to +300hz.
A conical horn will be .......huuge.
A ported box will be...dull and inefficient.
some help?
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A pair of ported boxes for high sensitivity 18" drivers, screwed to the wall, preferably one in each corner. Each one having a 300-500 watt plate amp.
It is somewhat irrelevant what you use initially.
Anything.
No matter what you are going to end up with a second amp for the bass.
Just about nothing practical in terms of size is going to match the sensitivity of the upper horn, unless ur using a cone driver there (?) but a compression driver on top is a better idea, imo... So, another amp is a good idea and should not be too expensive, especially if you get something that is PP and used for the job or build ur own... or even solid state?
A whole lot depends on your room and room size. Very important to what will work well.
Corner horns are very room sensitive and dependent. PIA to build...
Also the aesthetics, are they important, or do you need to please someone else's sense of how things must look??
_-_-bear
Anything.
No matter what you are going to end up with a second amp for the bass.
Just about nothing practical in terms of size is going to match the sensitivity of the upper horn, unless ur using a cone driver there (?) but a compression driver on top is a better idea, imo... So, another amp is a good idea and should not be too expensive, especially if you get something that is PP and used for the job or build ur own... or even solid state?
A whole lot depends on your room and room size. Very important to what will work well.
Corner horns are very room sensitive and dependent. PIA to build...
Also the aesthetics, are they important, or do you need to please someone else's sense of how things must look??
_-_-bear
To be honest i don't care about the looks...yet 🙂). It just needs to sound good. Would be nice to have an even bigger tractrix horn to get down to 150hz...but it won't fit tru the door 🙂).
The system will be moved alot, so i can't just put all my money on corners...sometimes i just won't have the luxury of having corners at all.
As a last resort i might use a big sealed box with two 12" or 15" inch drivers in each box, and SS plate amps. The tube amp will be happy with a solution like this. But would the dynamics even be in the same league as the horns above?
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Your Pre-Conditions are Preempting the Solution ...
.. which is:
1) You need amplifier muscle to drive a sub-woofer, horned or not. An SS amplifier will fill this role at a reasonable cost and deliver superior results as well (due to its lower source impedance).
2) You need an active crossover to feed this amplifier. Components for a low frequency, passive crossover are large, expensive, and decouple the driver form the amplifier by effectively reducing its damping factor, which for tube amplifiers is typically low to begin with.
3) You need a corner horn. It is the only bass horn that will fit in an at-home venue. It uses a room corner to extend its acoustical size to what is required. Otherwise, consider using a servo controlled subwoofer such as:
Rythmik
Rythmik Audio • Servo subwoofer testimonials and reviews
or
Velodyne.
Digital Drive PLUS 18 18" Subwoofer - Shop All Subwoofers - Subwoofers > - Shop
and there are others as well.
Regards,
WHG
.. which is:
1) You need amplifier muscle to drive a sub-woofer, horned or not. An SS amplifier will fill this role at a reasonable cost and deliver superior results as well (due to its lower source impedance).
2) You need an active crossover to feed this amplifier. Components for a low frequency, passive crossover are large, expensive, and decouple the driver form the amplifier by effectively reducing its damping factor, which for tube amplifiers is typically low to begin with.
3) You need a corner horn. It is the only bass horn that will fit in an at-home venue. It uses a room corner to extend its acoustical size to what is required. Otherwise, consider using a servo controlled subwoofer such as:
Rythmik
Rythmik Audio • Servo subwoofer testimonials and reviews
or
Velodyne.
Digital Drive PLUS 18 18" Subwoofer - Shop All Subwoofers - Subwoofers > - Shop
and there are others as well.
Regards,
WHG
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I'm using the Deltalite 2515 II in a ported cab, fairly efficient down to 50 Hz. The cab is huge (~ 6ft3), but if it were any bigger, I'd not have space for it, such are the dimensions of my living room. So, we have similar problems.
As bear says, anything to get started.
Edit: The vent is not showing in the pic. I cut it later 🙂
As bear says, anything to get started.
Edit: The vent is not showing in the pic. I cut it later 🙂
Attachments
This might be what you need or maybe just a little lower. Your 300 will be crossed over above 300 and this range you're trying to fill is very important. The below 100 region can manage with its own subs or tapped horns or whatever.
Member
Joined 2009
< 300Hz is probably the most challenging region to get right. I'm looking for options there as well. So far I've narrowed it down to 2 possible solutions.
1) U-Frame cardioid bass - very inefficient but it might work. It probably won't be able to get very low and the frequency response is not easy to predict.
2) If you have 2 good corners you can place regular subs in them, then equalize and time-align them to match the mains. It might be hard to cross at 300 Hz. The best bass integration I heard was at an audio show presentation by Steinway-Lyngdorf.
Steinway–Lyngdorf | Stereophile.com
1) U-Frame cardioid bass - very inefficient but it might work. It probably won't be able to get very low and the frequency response is not easy to predict.
2) If you have 2 good corners you can place regular subs in them, then equalize and time-align them to match the mains. It might be hard to cross at 300 Hz. The best bass integration I heard was at an audio show presentation by Steinway-Lyngdorf.
Steinway–Lyngdorf | Stereophile.com
As mentioned in other threads, try a U frame with a short horn ( 100 - 150Hz). If dimensioned correctly the combination of increased rear path length and group delay will help the lower bass. You will also have a small amount of horn loading on the upper bass and may need a small amount of equalising but if dimensions are correct, probably no equalising. Sims in horn response show this to work but I've never built it so have no idea of the sound. Unfortunately I now have to downsize my accommodation and my lifestyle so may never to get try the idea out.
jamikl
jamikl
Here's a horn the builder used from 80- 400 hz very efficient:
DIY 80hz midbass horn - The Paper Horn by Inlow Sound
Description of how to build.
DIY 80hz midbass horn - The Paper Horn by Inlow Sound
Description of how to build.
200hz crossover for the sub? strange....
I like inlow's mid-bass. If i wont be able to find the drivers at a good price i might try to model something with eminence drivers(cheap).
I wonder how he is able to use a tractrix horn that big for such an wide range.
You've backed yourself into a corner! First thing I'd consider is an active direct radiator with SS amp. If you want higher efficiency, use multiple drivers. Not exciting enough? Then try a front loaded horn and you can control the size by raising the cut off. TH probably won't do what you want, but a FLH has a chance. Maybe shoot for 80 Hz then cross to a sub.
It seems that a front loaded horn is the best canditate. Inlows midbass horn seems managable to move around.... Back to Hornresp!
If you can't be sure you will always have corners to work with, then a corner horn is out. Personally I'd build two towers, each with four 8 or 10 inch drivers (how big is your room)(wired series parallel so the resulting impedance as seen by the power amp is still 4 or 8 ohms) in a vertical line array, front facing drivers, closed box, a separate 100W+ poweramp, with an active lowpass filter and EQ to force the acoustic output to be flat to 20HZ at the listening position (sharp rolloff below that).
By having woofers in a vertical line array, you combat standing waves (or cancellations) on the vertical axis as well (two woofs on the floor only have the potential of largely filling in each others cancellations on the other two axis). This is one of the most effective ways to get rid of bass and lower midrange boominess. The bass will be more even anywhere in the room. Doing it right the first time may seem to cost more, but you probably only have to do it once.
This approach isn't as efficient as horns, so get a bigger poweramp and/or go with 12 inch Peerless XLS drivers (they have one of the biggest Xmax (voice coil travel) of any 12 inch I know of). How loud do you need it to go? If there's still not quite enough bass, build one or two more towers (roughly 4 ft. tall) if there's room, and just parallel them in if the amp can handle the resulting impedance. The EQ/lowpass and poweramp will already be in place.
By having woofers in a vertical line array, you combat standing waves (or cancellations) on the vertical axis as well (two woofs on the floor only have the potential of largely filling in each others cancellations on the other two axis). This is one of the most effective ways to get rid of bass and lower midrange boominess. The bass will be more even anywhere in the room. Doing it right the first time may seem to cost more, but you probably only have to do it once.
This approach isn't as efficient as horns, so get a bigger poweramp and/or go with 12 inch Peerless XLS drivers (they have one of the biggest Xmax (voice coil travel) of any 12 inch I know of). How loud do you need it to go? If there's still not quite enough bass, build one or two more towers (roughly 4 ft. tall) if there's room, and just parallel them in if the amp can handle the resulting impedance. The EQ/lowpass and poweramp will already be in place.
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Hunbdinger, that is exactly what i propose to do for my horn setup.
4 or 5 12" rivers in a 6ft tall cabinet with the mid bass horn, mid and high horns next to it.
I am thinking of incorporating the bass cabinet into the build to remove the need for a horn stand.
4 or 5 12" rivers in a 6ft tall cabinet with the mid bass horn, mid and high horns next to it.
I am thinking of incorporating the bass cabinet into the build to remove the need for a horn stand.
I would try this http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/Edgar-Show-Horn-01.jpg if I have enough space. But rotated 90 degree left for the R channel, and rotated 90 degree right for the L channel, it's very important!
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