I have had this idea rolling around in my head for months; maybe years. So I am going to ask and see what people think.
I listen to alot of guitar and blues. I have been pondering building some speakers specifically for listening to the Blues.
I would like to make them ob because many guitar speakers are basically ob.
What I a thinking is take a couple 12 inch speakers, one a full ranger like an Eminence Beta 12TA and a hemp cone like a Tone Tubby. I have not matching efficiency or anything like I am just using these as an example as one is a well known OB full ranger and one is a well known guitar speaker.
These would go into the same open baffle speaker as a pair. The full range giving me... well the full uncolored range. The guitar speaker giving me a sound specifically tailored to the blues guitar stuff I listen to. I could augment with some Martin H frames for more bass.
What do you guys think. I have built speakers but I am hack. I don't have sound testing equipment I just copy what others have done. So is this a nutty idea or might I be on to something for stereo speakers tailored to a specific style of music?
I listen to alot of guitar and blues. I have been pondering building some speakers specifically for listening to the Blues.
I would like to make them ob because many guitar speakers are basically ob.
What I a thinking is take a couple 12 inch speakers, one a full ranger like an Eminence Beta 12TA and a hemp cone like a Tone Tubby. I have not matching efficiency or anything like I am just using these as an example as one is a well known OB full ranger and one is a well known guitar speaker.
These would go into the same open baffle speaker as a pair. The full range giving me... well the full uncolored range. The guitar speaker giving me a sound specifically tailored to the blues guitar stuff I listen to. I could augment with some Martin H frames for more bass.
What do you guys think. I have built speakers but I am hack. I don't have sound testing equipment I just copy what others have done. So is this a nutty idea or might I be on to something for stereo speakers tailored to a specific style of music?
guitar and speaker is like a unity
and both are severely flawed
better ask the question, what makes a good 'blues speakers' ?
and both are severely flawed
better ask the question, what makes a good 'blues speakers' ?
I'd like to see a new version of 12LTA but am not sure what could be balanced in the factory to improve its subjective transparency. (hemp-cone with cloth surround, stronger motor..)
we're trying to reproduce an event - - fwiw I think Cannabis Rex is nice but have only listened to it in a Karlson cabinet and not as a direct radiator. One reviewer used it as the basis of an Econowave 2-way in a sealed PE trapezoid box.
ask Planet10 & Scottmoose how they would approach this subject. I'd probably use a Karlson 15 with a $199 15" coax as a stopgap - or a good but cheap set of headphones. (I love Albert King)
for OB - maybe 2-12" stacked vertically? 4-BG20? - either will need a helper woofer. Magnetar had an open baffle with 4-cheap 10" for midbass, a 10" Eminence hemp for midrange, plus various tries for horn tweeter.
fwiw I'd pick two Cannabis Rex per side for ~90Hz up - not sure what to use above that point. With no tweeter , vocals were "interesting" and my little Karlson sounded good on my guitar. 2-12LTA might be better than one. I'm not sure what could be mixed with 12LTA on open baffle for home stereo.
I played with a cheap 21" woofer biamped to 12LTA - not inspiring - partly the crap baffle, partly the 21, and partly
12LTA
A Karlson coupler can be cool - -a slotted pipe waveguide sounds "natural" .
a little K-coupler with 15" topped with a compression driver and K-tube could be good for midbass-up
this cabinet is ~20.5" wide by 27" tall by 15" deep and would be as shallow as 13.5" if the wings aren't inset
your speaker needs to be able to play all genre well yet excel on the better blues recordings ("Muddy Waters Sings Big Bill Broonzy". It needs to sound "coherent"- it might be tough but fun to try
we're trying to reproduce an event - - fwiw I think Cannabis Rex is nice but have only listened to it in a Karlson cabinet and not as a direct radiator. One reviewer used it as the basis of an Econowave 2-way in a sealed PE trapezoid box.
ask Planet10 & Scottmoose how they would approach this subject. I'd probably use a Karlson 15 with a $199 15" coax as a stopgap - or a good but cheap set of headphones. (I love Albert King)
for OB - maybe 2-12" stacked vertically? 4-BG20? - either will need a helper woofer. Magnetar had an open baffle with 4-cheap 10" for midbass, a 10" Eminence hemp for midrange, plus various tries for horn tweeter.
fwiw I'd pick two Cannabis Rex per side for ~90Hz up - not sure what to use above that point. With no tweeter , vocals were "interesting" and my little Karlson sounded good on my guitar. 2-12LTA might be better than one. I'm not sure what could be mixed with 12LTA on open baffle for home stereo.
I played with a cheap 21" woofer biamped to 12LTA - not inspiring - partly the crap baffle, partly the 21, and partly
12LTA
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
A Karlson coupler can be cool - -a slotted pipe waveguide sounds "natural" .
a little K-coupler with 15" topped with a compression driver and K-tube could be good for midbass-up
this cabinet is ~20.5" wide by 27" tall by 15" deep and would be as shallow as 13.5" if the wings aren't inset
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
your speaker needs to be able to play all genre well yet excel on the better blues recordings ("Muddy Waters Sings Big Bill Broonzy". It needs to sound "coherent"- it might be tough but fun to try
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Hi,
Try listening to music through a guitar amplifier, its painful.
Why ? The recording has already captured a guitar speakers
peak and the last thing it needs is a double dose of the same.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf
I'm quite certain is near the best you can do simple.
Though MJK missed a trick with doing a small capacitor
across the bass inductor to suppress the Alpha's peak.
At more cost and smaller outline (half OB) look at :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-sunflowers
And one of my favourite designs (not OB) :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
Its like a beer budget WATT/Puppy in attitude.
rgds, sreten.
Try listening to music through a guitar amplifier, its painful.
Why ? The recording has already captured a guitar speakers
peak and the last thing it needs is a double dose of the same.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/OBs/OB_Design.pdf
I'm quite certain is near the best you can do simple.
Though MJK missed a trick with doing a small capacitor
across the bass inductor to suppress the Alpha's peak.
At more cost and smaller outline (half OB) look at :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-sunflowers
And one of my favourite designs (not OB) :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus
Its like a beer budget WATT/Puppy in attitude.
rgds, sreten.
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I didn't keep up with Lynn's thread to see where the guitar speaker route went. Something would have to be done in the crossover to deal with the peak - the Econowave crossover to a QSC waveguide should at least halfass work.
here's where a guy made a Bastanis look-alike with Cannabis Rex http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?51517-FS-Bastanis-style-Open-Baffle-speakers - Goldwood's GW1858 in an H-Frame could be the bottom end.
here's my GW1858 H-baffle in-room vs a folded pipe
Cannabis Rex Eminence graph - it has an open screen dustcap - a wood phase plug might make it look cool if nothing else
Edward West's data traced coomparisons
Magnetar had 5-16 ohm cheap Madison 10" speakers in parallel for his OB's midbass and a 10" Eminence hemp Lil Buddy
for the mid
here's where a guy made a Bastanis look-alike with Cannabis Rex http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?51517-FS-Bastanis-style-Open-Baffle-speakers - Goldwood's GW1858 in an H-Frame could be the bottom end.
here's my GW1858 H-baffle in-room vs a folded pipe
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Cannabis Rex Eminence graph - it has an open screen dustcap - a wood phase plug might make it look cool if nothing else
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Edward West's data traced coomparisons
Magnetar had 5-16 ohm cheap Madison 10" speakers in parallel for his OB's midbass and a 10" Eminence hemp Lil Buddy
for the mid
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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If it's a playback system, you want high fidelity and good tone controls. If it's a guitar amp optimized for blues you want a casserole of distortion mechanisms that can be easily engaged. Open baffle hi-fi speakers are a major project that I would only recommend to very educated audio electronic engineers.
Hi,
Some OB's are very simple if you trust educated engineers.
Certainly don't try and make it up as you go along, wrong.
rgds, sreten.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/201052-beer-budget-version-10-000-jamo-open-baffles.html
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I've run a neodymium P-Audio 15" coax with qts ~0.38 on a little open baffle and could live with its bass - power handling was good
the beer budget Jamo type does look good and ready to play - is there a good way to extend the foam surround lifetime? by the time I think about a project, some of my drivers are rotted.
Hi,
Modern foam surrounds don't rot, its essentially fixed.
As detailed by MJK a higher Q driver in an open baffle will
do proper, not just adequate bass, but by definition the
power handling will not be great with a higher Q driver.
The BB Jamo needs some tweaking, see the end of the
thread, regarding the midrange and crossover interactions.
rgds, sreten.
Modern foam surrounds don't rot, its essentially fixed.
As detailed by MJK a higher Q driver in an open baffle will
do proper, not just adequate bass, but by definition the
power handling will not be great with a higher Q driver.
The BB Jamo needs some tweaking, see the end of the
thread, regarding the midrange and crossover interactions.
rgds, sreten.
>>> I'm not sure what could be mixed with 12LTA on open baffle for home stereo.
Two Alpha 15's and a tweeter that's at least 95db per watt. The 12lta is very efficient and needs a woofer to match it or the system will not sound balanced.
Two Alpha 15's and a tweeter that's at least 95db per watt. The 12lta is very efficient and needs a woofer to match it or the system will not sound balanced.
I think he may have been considering 2-12" for the upper bass to treble (?) 2-GW1858 per channel on the baffle would probably do pretty good bass.
No way on going along this route and hope to find an answer.
One thing is the sound produced while playing (being it necessarily electrified for the guitar pick-up) and another thing is the reproduction of a (recorded)
sound. Stop. Any thought of what is similar or what it should be ( nor what is there really inside the disc ! ) should develop from this point.
BTW It was pure pleasure to listen to some voice & guitar thru an old SE Dynavox 1952 ...with a 8 ". Indeed, the back was removable! Bad it is only one unit😡
One thing is the sound produced while playing (being it necessarily electrified for the guitar pick-up) and another thing is the reproduction of a (recorded)
sound. Stop. Any thought of what is similar or what it should be ( nor what is there really inside the disc ! ) should develop from this point.
BTW It was pure pleasure to listen to some voice & guitar thru an old SE Dynavox 1952 ...with a 8 ". Indeed, the back was removable! Bad it is only one unit😡
other than sheer loudness, I would guess an Alpair 10 or 12 in their respective "Pensil" cabinet would do well for a single driver. FWIW I found Cannabis Rex reasonably listenable for a 12" speaker in its midrange. It lacks guts due to weak motor but that would not be a problem with a woofer underneath.
it might be good for the original poster to specify his room size and peak spl likes.
it might be good for the original poster to specify his room size and peak spl likes.
Don't get cheated by the FR sub-forum classification, as the OP have it intended to be a device to reproduce fully the sound spectrum.
Indeed, I should have added that that beautiful reproduction of voice & guitar
( maybe it was a Dynachord ..🙄 ) was followed by my new(old) experiment---another three way that lyes there 🙁 unused....well, it has open back 😉😛 and unexpected good bass from a rolled edge paper cone - a 4 Ω nominal 7" de-whizzered and with inverted dust cap.
Midrange from no-brand radio, 3"; tweeters are some kind of Audax TW010
found on a giant sony TV with elliptical waveguides made from dead TV drivers.
No magic Mundorf or Claricap but genuine bipolars and 1mm wire diameter for the woofer coil ( costs more than the...uh, ehm,...woofer ).
Oh ! total power max allowable I guess...2-3 W...
Indeed, I should have added that that beautiful reproduction of voice & guitar
( maybe it was a Dynachord ..🙄 ) was followed by my new(old) experiment---another three way that lyes there 🙁 unused....well, it has open back 😉😛 and unexpected good bass from a rolled edge paper cone - a 4 Ω nominal 7" de-whizzered and with inverted dust cap.
Midrange from no-brand radio, 3"; tweeters are some kind of Audax TW010
found on a giant sony TV with elliptical waveguides made from dead TV drivers.
No magic Mundorf or Claricap but genuine bipolars and 1mm wire diameter for the woofer coil ( costs more than the...uh, ehm,...woofer ).
Oh ! total power max allowable I guess...2-3 W...
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I found on my Martin king open baffles that mounting the fostex on the back of the ply as opposed to front mounting it gave a much better sound.
You all make good points to ponder. I think the ones that resonated the most with me
1 - Sreten - "The recording has already captured a guitar speakers
peak and the last thing it needs is a double dose of the same." This makes perfect sense.
2- Considering a hemp cone speaker. Since this is for stereo and not a guitar amp I guess a full range hemp speaker of some type might be best. Open to suggestions for hemp drivers for OB. I have read about a guy using Tone Tubbies and loving them
If I continue down this road of making a pair of stereo speakers specifically for blues and picking up the tonal qualities of blues guitar I am thinkiing some alnicos might work well. This morning I am considering thinking an Electro Voice SP12B full range and Electro Voice 12 SP made for guitar amps might work well in the same baffle. But then I reflect on Sretens comments and wonder.
I guess I could just do it to get it out of mind and if it sounds like crap take the 12 Sp guitar speakers out, make a guitar amp and take up bass or guitar. Sometimes I get obsessed with an idea or concept (yes even bad ones) and just ave to do it to move on.
1 - Sreten - "The recording has already captured a guitar speakers
peak and the last thing it needs is a double dose of the same." This makes perfect sense.
2- Considering a hemp cone speaker. Since this is for stereo and not a guitar amp I guess a full range hemp speaker of some type might be best. Open to suggestions for hemp drivers for OB. I have read about a guy using Tone Tubbies and loving them
If I continue down this road of making a pair of stereo speakers specifically for blues and picking up the tonal qualities of blues guitar I am thinkiing some alnicos might work well. This morning I am considering thinking an Electro Voice SP12B full range and Electro Voice 12 SP made for guitar amps might work well in the same baffle. But then I reflect on Sretens comments and wonder.
I guess I could just do it to get it out of mind and if it sounds like crap take the 12 Sp guitar speakers out, make a guitar amp and take up bass or guitar. Sometimes I get obsessed with an idea or concept (yes even bad ones) and just ave to do it to move on.
I also talked to an old reconer and he said he had some Electro Voice hemp cone speakers but I have been unable to find or even read about any old EV hemp cone alnico speakers.
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forget about hemp, and in general what else you may read about people speaking highly of their speakers
btw, at the time Hemp was really hot, I think Eminence produced a guitar speaker with Hemp cone
can't say for sure, but I expect a certain Seas 10" classic woofer might be great choice for a blues playing speaker
use two per side in a 2.5way, or series coupled in 2way, and a small fulrange as mid/tweeter
might end like a nice big 250liter floor/tower speaker
btw, at the time Hemp was really hot, I think Eminence produced a guitar speaker with Hemp cone
can't say for sure, but I expect a certain Seas 10" classic woofer might be great choice for a blues playing speaker
use two per side in a 2.5way, or series coupled in 2way, and a small fulrange as mid/tweeter
might end like a nice big 250liter floor/tower speaker
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