So I want to know why/what can cause the stereo image to shift off-center when everything is spot on in terms of speaker placement/amp equalization. I've switched both amps and speakers and the image is slightly left no matter what. Soundwise it's not an issue but it just looks wonky from my listening position and it's distracting. It keeps me concerned about something related to placement or the amps. I use Acoustat Model 3 with the servo charge tube monos. TIA
It could be a problem with the source of the sound, or with the room acoustics, and it could also be that you hear less in one ear. Check in someone else's system your ears first.
Is room's front end symmetrical ( where loudspeakers are located)?
If not you know from where it comes from.
If not you know from where it comes from.
I had this issue. As @AllenB said, it was the room.
My listening room has a brick wall on one side and a MDF wall (72mm thick) that goes 1/3 of the room on the other side. That's an old picture before building my 4-ways:
When the speakers were in the position shown in the picture (about 50cm from the front wall), the first reflection point was the brick wall on one side and the MDF door/wall on the other. The image was slightly shifted. After reading some books and watching YouTube videos, I moved the speakers further into the room, so the first reflection point would hit the absorption panels visible in the picture (5cm rockwool with a 5cm air gap from the wall).
The center image is now... centered. 😂
It bothered me so much before that I even went to the doctor for a hearing test—everything was fine.
What puzzles me is that I took multiple measurements using REW and a calibrated mic: on-axis, off-axis, listening position, 1m away, etc., but found no significant difference (or at least none that stood out to me).
I assume it was due to the different materials at the first reflection points. Could that be the case? Different reflection behavior on each side?
My listening room has a brick wall on one side and a MDF wall (72mm thick) that goes 1/3 of the room on the other side. That's an old picture before building my 4-ways:
When the speakers were in the position shown in the picture (about 50cm from the front wall), the first reflection point was the brick wall on one side and the MDF door/wall on the other. The image was slightly shifted. After reading some books and watching YouTube videos, I moved the speakers further into the room, so the first reflection point would hit the absorption panels visible in the picture (5cm rockwool with a 5cm air gap from the wall).
The center image is now... centered. 😂
It bothered me so much before that I even went to the doctor for a hearing test—everything was fine.
What puzzles me is that I took multiple measurements using REW and a calibrated mic: on-axis, off-axis, listening position, 1m away, etc., but found no significant difference (or at least none that stood out to me).
I assume it was due to the different materials at the first reflection points. Could that be the case? Different reflection behavior on each side?
Sure, I've considered all three options. I suspected my ears but simply moving my head side to side reveals the center point regardless so I guess it's the room then. I listen to a wide range of music and it's always the same so it's not the source. You can see the right speaker is on the right of the archway. So right to the left there's a corner. Is this corner projecting to the left causing this issue?
Attachments
Last edited:
It's very difficult to identify ER in measurements in such tiny space as our 'common' listening room imho.
It can be estimated through modelisation though ( SBIR).
Yes different materials have different absorbing properties ( wrt freq) and as such act as an eq.
I'm lucky to have a relatively large room and i've got something like 1,5m distance from loudspeakers to side walls ( both sides). When christmas arrive my kids decided right side of room is dedicated to christmas tree and so i have a very effectivd diffusor on the right side. Very disturbing for over a month/year... it really change rendering.
Well it can help mitigate the issue and if you are not to picky it can fake it somehow.
But i'm picky. And i've even tried other means than simple balance ( M/S processors allowing for image shift) and i'm never satisfied by results.
There is always some dead spot or a widening/unaturalness in the center image.
It can works somehow if you don't know how source initially sounded when tracking ( which is the case 100% if you are not a sound engineer) but as i often i'm the one who located mic couple and made the choice of type used for esthetic reasons with sources i play i can only tell it's not the definitive answer about the issue...
We would need to compensate for the difference in timing and intensity ( both linked to distance to reflective surface) and eq ( to mimic the absorbing characteristics of reflective material- iow eq profile) to really counteract things in case of asymmetric room.
It could happen in near future however as AI is good tool for this kind of things. Meanwhile you have to follow basic number 1 rule of any pro control room if you are bothered by this kind of things: room layout must be symmetrical along longitudinal axis.
The other issue being the better the reproducing chain is the worst this kind of small issues becomes as they start to be 'really' audible ( not masked by other defaults).
But i'm picky. And i've even tried other means than simple balance ( M/S processors allowing for image shift) and i'm never satisfied by results.
There is always some dead spot or a widening/unaturalness in the center image.
It can works somehow if you don't know how source initially sounded when tracking ( which is the case 100% if you are not a sound engineer) but as i often i'm the one who located mic couple and made the choice of type used for esthetic reasons with sources i play i can only tell it's not the definitive answer about the issue...
We would need to compensate for the difference in timing and intensity ( both linked to distance to reflective surface) and eq ( to mimic the absorbing characteristics of reflective material- iow eq profile) to really counteract things in case of asymmetric room.
It could happen in near future however as AI is good tool for this kind of things. Meanwhile you have to follow basic number 1 rule of any pro control room if you are bothered by this kind of things: room layout must be symmetrical along longitudinal axis.
The other issue being the better the reproducing chain is the worst this kind of small issues becomes as they start to be 'really' audible ( not masked by other defaults).
Last edited:
Yea, changing balance does not at all help. It then becomes apparent one of the amps has a problem with volume.
It could be room, connections, electronics, speakers, ear/brain. Try to isolate by changing one parameter at a time.
To help isolate.
1. Switching amp outputs?
2. Checking connections
3. Trying different cables or swapping channels input/output cables.
4. Swapping speakers.
5. Is the difference in volume with entire frequency range or only specific band? Play few tones to isolate.
6. A measurement mic should help here.
To check my image I just play my tracks in mono mode. I call it goods when my speakers scarily appear to vanish and sound from a non existent phantom center.
To help isolate.
1. Switching amp outputs?
2. Checking connections
3. Trying different cables or swapping channels input/output cables.
4. Swapping speakers.
5. Is the difference in volume with entire frequency range or only specific band? Play few tones to isolate.
6. A measurement mic should help here.
To check my image I just play my tracks in mono mode. I call it goods when my speakers scarily appear to vanish and sound from a non existent phantom center.
Last edited:
If you're looking to compare reflections you might find it easi(er 😉 ) by looking at the measured impulse response.
Looking at the picture of the position of the speakers, a large asymmetry of the room is visible. These are dipole speakers, electrostatic, they have a sound wave on both sides, that's probably where the problem is. It should be tried, although it does not seem possible to correct the position much, or at least to try rotating the speaker around the vertical axis. I would first try turning the right speaker more towards the listening position than the left one.
I have classic medium size 3way speakers and a small room, 5 cm front to back and turning by a few degrees greatly affects the depth of the sound image and the entire presentation. If I move them just 10cm back towards the wall, I get too much bass, and almost lose the 3d sound image. If I rotate them too much inward, the depth of the sound image slowly returns, but it becomes aggressively centrally positioned. If I place them parallel to the wall, the music is all around and I can't easily determine the position of the instruments. If I rotate them differently, I have offset of the stereo image (left-right). I don't have any acoustics room treatment other than a thick carpet and some upholstered furniture, nor am I going to put anything like that.
It should also be taken into account that both our ears are not the same, and that the brain makes various corrections of its own will. 😁
I have classic medium size 3way speakers and a small room, 5 cm front to back and turning by a few degrees greatly affects the depth of the sound image and the entire presentation. If I move them just 10cm back towards the wall, I get too much bass, and almost lose the 3d sound image. If I rotate them too much inward, the depth of the sound image slowly returns, but it becomes aggressively centrally positioned. If I place them parallel to the wall, the music is all around and I can't easily determine the position of the instruments. If I rotate them differently, I have offset of the stereo image (left-right). I don't have any acoustics room treatment other than a thick carpet and some upholstered furniture, nor am I going to put anything like that.
It should also be taken into account that both our ears are not the same, and that the brain makes various corrections of its own will. 😁
Last edited:
I'm 62 years old, so I'm not young, the end is around 14kHz. The rest are the effects of room acoustics. I checked everything with friends of various ages, and I also have a 24-year-old son who still hears like a bat. But even with poor hearing, the effects of reflections from the walls are easily heard. You need to spend a lot of time positioning the speakers, every room is different.
Last edited: