Hi,
Just finished my first audio DIY, an AMP6 from 41hz. Really nice.
Now moving on to speakers as my 8ohm low sensitivity Tannoys are just not up to it.
Intended to use Fostex 127 and to go the madisound bass reflex route, my DIY skills are not up to the horns just yet. It seems to be a simple introduction for me and cheap, £300 all in.
The Amp6 is 4ohms so i intend to use 2 drivers, in parallel for each channel, this would be 4 speakers in total. Not sure whether it would be best to combine 2 speakers to appear as one, with parallel wiring length kept to the very minimum, or 4 seperate speakers paralleled at the binding posts? I think trying to incorporate 2 drivers in a single cabinet is a more difficult proposition.
Also is a BSC required or should i just do it, allow burn in and assess later?
In fact any advice/opinion would be appreciated. Alternative drivers, designs, issues etc...
Thanks in advance.
Just finished my first audio DIY, an AMP6 from 41hz. Really nice.
Now moving on to speakers as my 8ohm low sensitivity Tannoys are just not up to it.
Intended to use Fostex 127 and to go the madisound bass reflex route, my DIY skills are not up to the horns just yet. It seems to be a simple introduction for me and cheap, £300 all in.
The Amp6 is 4ohms so i intend to use 2 drivers, in parallel for each channel, this would be 4 speakers in total. Not sure whether it would be best to combine 2 speakers to appear as one, with parallel wiring length kept to the very minimum, or 4 seperate speakers paralleled at the binding posts? I think trying to incorporate 2 drivers in a single cabinet is a more difficult proposition.
Also is a BSC required or should i just do it, allow burn in and assess later?
In fact any advice/opinion would be appreciated. Alternative drivers, designs, issues etc...
Thanks in advance.
When working with two drivers playing the same frequencies (all in this case), at some point, their separation (center-to-center) will greater than the wave length of some audible range. This can result in the two drivers being identifiable and interference effects. You should have them as close as mechanically possible. They also need to be on the same acoustic center plane. In separate cabinets, it can be physically done but in the same cabinet, it is assured.
Baffle step diffraction is a function of speaker placement. When close to the wall or TV or other large planer surfaces, the amount of compensation is reduced. If you're going to put them into the room and away from other things (i.e. dedicated listening room), you'll want the full compensation (~6db). Most people have spouses and thus don't need full compensation, so 3-4db is typical.
One alternative to the LR when using 2 drivers is to create a 1.5-way crossover. This is where one driver is used as the BSC and has a low pass filter set to 800-1000Hz. This is a better alignment because instead of suppressing the upper frequencies of both drivers, one driver is full range and the other contributes it full capabilities up to the LP filter.
John
Baffle step diffraction is a function of speaker placement. When close to the wall or TV or other large planer surfaces, the amount of compensation is reduced. If you're going to put them into the room and away from other things (i.e. dedicated listening room), you'll want the full compensation (~6db). Most people have spouses and thus don't need full compensation, so 3-4db is typical.
One alternative to the LR when using 2 drivers is to create a 1.5-way crossover. This is where one driver is used as the BSC and has a low pass filter set to 800-1000Hz. This is a better alignment because instead of suppressing the upper frequencies of both drivers, one driver is full range and the other contributes it full capabilities up to the LP filter.
John
Hi, my understanding (limited) of bipole is for surround sound speakers with 2 drivers directing sound to the front and back of the room. I do not think this is what i am after, i just want to create a good stereo sound. I do not have a dedicated listening room (wife/kids) so the speakers are in the corners of the room, 12" from the wall.
I was seeking to use 2 drivers in parallel simply to get to the total ohms down to 4 to maximise my amps 2 x 25w output and because i could find easy to build bass reflex plans. Additionally Fostex are well thought of.
Maybe i need to research more, find some 4ohm drivers etc and alternative cabinet designs? Any pointers would be good. I am very new to this.
Regards, Mark.
I was seeking to use 2 drivers in parallel simply to get to the total ohms down to 4 to maximise my amps 2 x 25w output and because i could find easy to build bass reflex plans. Additionally Fostex are well thought of.
Maybe i need to research more, find some 4ohm drivers etc and alternative cabinet designs? Any pointers would be good. I am very new to this.
Regards, Mark.
Tetsuo36 said:
If you think it thru, that might not be the best idea. 1st the Fostex are quite efficient and 10 w is just fine (my main amps which i drive my 127s with is 3.8 W. At 4 ohms your amplifier has ~ 2x the distortion it does at 8 ohns (and the Fostex are revealing enuff to show it up)
Another approach would be to take advantage of the corners ... build a set of Frugal-Horns or RonHorn A126 that use the corners... the FE126 you use in those is ~ 3dB more efficient than the FE127, so that is like doubling the available power. The box isn't as easy to build thou.
dave
Planet10 and his cohorts are an excellent resource when it comes to fostex speakers, if you didn't already know. Check his websites, and depart from his advice at your own peril.
Tho if I had corners to load, I'd want to make a BIB my first build. Simple enough construction that one wouldn't feel too bad about discarding the box and making something else w/ the drivers, should it be necessary.
Tho if I had corners to load, I'd want to make a BIB my first build. Simple enough construction that one wouldn't feel too bad about discarding the box and making something else w/ the drivers, should it be necessary.
Tetsuo36, Have you researched getting a prebuilt cabinet? I only know of ones here in the US and would be costly to ship but there are some that would be reasonable for the Fostex drivers.
I will mention that I just completed a set of computer speakers using the Mark Audio CHR-70 and I'm very impressed with them. They're an incredible value if cost is an issue but sensitivity is only marginally better then your Tannoys. They're already 4-ohms and thus only one would be needed.
The Audio Nirvana drivers at http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/ would be an interesting complement to the Amp6.
Lastly, consider the Fonkens over on P-10. All straight cuts and fairly simple to build. While you're there, check out the phase plugs for the Fostex drivers. As Scottmoose says, they're a must.
I will mention that I just completed a set of computer speakers using the Mark Audio CHR-70 and I'm very impressed with them. They're an incredible value if cost is an issue but sensitivity is only marginally better then your Tannoys. They're already 4-ohms and thus only one would be needed.
The Audio Nirvana drivers at http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/ would be an interesting complement to the Amp6.
Lastly, consider the Fonkens over on P-10. All straight cuts and fairly simple to build. While you're there, check out the phase plugs for the Fostex drivers. As Scottmoose says, they're a must.
The horns are a little past my current DIY skill (i truely wish), but the Audio Nirvana tip is a really good one, it has opened up a new range of options for me and indicates i need to do much more research before jumping into anything. Thanks for the links and web site tips, greatly appreciated.
Tetsuo36 said:
It's really difficult to know when you know enough. When it comes to full range drivers, it's an obscure topic within a small hobby, and the alternatives are not going to be found at your common parts supplier. This forum is an excellent source for suppliers. I've also found that people's sigs are a great resource. Good luck.
A couple of other considerations:
Pioneer B20FU20-51FW 8" Full Range Driver
Visaton B200
on this carpenter's day, Tetsuo36...do it!
Do fall for all the drivel being being spewed by so many here...that is if you want to have perhaps one of the best implementations for Fostex drivers on the planet (this one, not planet10).
To me everything else is second best...(ok, I have no experience with any of the uber $$$$ drivers, but the modified Fostex drivers are very good). It is Dave and company's implementation that is very good as well. Few build or listen and evaluate more, and it a "group thing".
The Fonkens work really well with the 41Hz amp6Basic (I know 'cause that's what I'd listened to for a year or so...).
HareBrained. ... there may be very good implementations of other drivers (Dave has done some work with the Visaton B200s and others readily available in Europe.). And Dave and folks are not the only designers/builders on the planet, but they are very good at what they do. Tony Slee from the Netherlands, and Scottmoose from the UK come to mind.So many others worth mentioning, but simply not enough time or space.
The Pioneers are not such a great deal in Europe if they are shipped from the US. I am sure Visatons must be more cost efficient in Europe compared to North America.
Tetsuo36 . The Fonkens may be a bit more complicated than a 6-sided box, but not by that much. If you can't build them, find a local cabinet maker or DIY carpenter buddy to do it for you.
On thing has been missed in this thread, though. Tetsuo, how big is your room (width X length X height)? And what are your musical tastes (cause metal and small fullrange drivers may not be the best mix).
stew
Do fall for all the drivel being being spewed by so many here...that is if you want to have perhaps one of the best implementations for Fostex drivers on the planet (this one, not planet10).
To me everything else is second best...(ok, I have no experience with any of the uber $$$$ drivers, but the modified Fostex drivers are very good). It is Dave and company's implementation that is very good as well. Few build or listen and evaluate more, and it a "group thing".
The Fonkens work really well with the 41Hz amp6Basic (I know 'cause that's what I'd listened to for a year or so...).
HareBrained. ... there may be very good implementations of other drivers (Dave has done some work with the Visaton B200s and others readily available in Europe.). And Dave and folks are not the only designers/builders on the planet, but they are very good at what they do. Tony Slee from the Netherlands, and Scottmoose from the UK come to mind.So many others worth mentioning, but simply not enough time or space.
The Pioneers are not such a great deal in Europe if they are shipped from the US. I am sure Visatons must be more cost efficient in Europe compared to North America.
Tetsuo36 . The Fonkens may be a bit more complicated than a 6-sided box, but not by that much. If you can't build them, find a local cabinet maker or DIY carpenter buddy to do it for you.
On thing has been missed in this thread, though. Tetsuo, how big is your room (width X length X height)? And what are your musical tastes (cause metal and small fullrange drivers may not be the best mix).
stew
Hairbrained, thanks for the links, i will investigate further.
Nanook, The Fonkens are within my capabilities, so look like something i should consider. My room is 7m x 6m, relatively small and my musical taste is varied. Soul, ambient, funk, i love my female vocals. Nothing too bass heavy, but sometimes fairly complex with orchestral backing sometimes, such as Quantic and QSO.
I am on a budget though and some of the modded stuff at planet10 etc is expensive (for me) with shipping to the UK. I am really looking for a simple and basic starting off point. First project so i do not want to spend a fortune, this is for learning, with hopefully a result superior to my stock 10 year old Tannoys. Building the AMP6 i fried the 1st chip, so i know learning new skills often comes with mistakes. Maybe Fonkens and Fostex 127s are that starting point.
Nanook, The Fonkens are within my capabilities, so look like something i should consider. My room is 7m x 6m, relatively small and my musical taste is varied. Soul, ambient, funk, i love my female vocals. Nothing too bass heavy, but sometimes fairly complex with orchestral backing sometimes, such as Quantic and QSO.
I am on a budget though and some of the modded stuff at planet10 etc is expensive (for me) with shipping to the UK. I am really looking for a simple and basic starting off point. First project so i do not want to spend a fortune, this is for learning, with hopefully a result superior to my stock 10 year old Tannoys. Building the AMP6 i fried the 1st chip, so i know learning new skills often comes with mistakes. Maybe Fonkens and Fostex 127s are that starting point.
So i found some flatpack Fostex cabinets here in the UK at https://secure.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/catalog/index.php?cPath=25
So i think my route is clearer, this is good for me, i could manage horns as flatpack, no cuts, just glue and clamps i assume.
Does anyone have experience of Fostex 126 v 206. I have been looking at Planet10 127s (US) and Stock 206s (UK). Considering shipping the cost is about the same.
Any opinions as i have heard neither!
Nanook, you mention Scottmoose in the UK, does he mod and sell? Google is not giving me much, really DIY audio mentions only.
Thank you. Mark.
So i think my route is clearer, this is good for me, i could manage horns as flatpack, no cuts, just glue and clamps i assume.
Does anyone have experience of Fostex 126 v 206. I have been looking at Planet10 127s (US) and Stock 206s (UK). Considering shipping the cost is about the same.
Any opinions as i have heard neither!
Nanook, you mention Scottmoose in the UK, does he mod and sell? Google is not giving me much, really DIY audio mentions only.
Thank you. Mark.
Tetsuo36...P10 is Canuck....
not 'Merican...🙂
Someplace on dave's site (P10 hifi) , the recipe for his mods can be found. So you could purchase the Fostex drivers where everr you can do so easily in the UK or Europe, do the mods and build the boxes.
FE127 drivers deserve better than a BR box...
stew
not 'Merican...🙂
Someplace on dave's site (P10 hifi) , the recipe for his mods can be found. So you could purchase the Fostex drivers where everr you can do so easily in the UK or Europe, do the mods and build the boxes.
FE127 drivers deserve better than a BR box...
stew
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Tetsuo36 said:
Be warned that the Wilmslow flat-paks are MDF. On inquiry they have responded that they would do plywood (but for an upcharge).
Also, those are all Fostex recommended boxes. A few of them are OK, but they do not represent best of breed (not even close). In particular the FE126 & 206 onesz are not very good at all. The FE206 has been put into the FE208 horn with some success.
I'll ping Scottmoose. He isn't selling anything yet, but we have been working closely, and he sometimes acts as a clearing point for gang shipments to the UK. He also may know someone who can help with cabinets.
dave
Dave, funny seeing you here....
I haven't seen ya in here for a bit. Must be busy...
I too have been...trying to get Mr. Campbell into some stuff.... perhaps P10 "east".. 🙂
Beware of any lurking arrow shafts in your neighbourhood....er Mike bought some super-tweeters to help with the dull sounding JX92X drivers...
stew
I haven't seen ya in here for a bit. Must be busy...
I too have been...trying to get Mr. Campbell into some stuff.... perhaps P10 "east".. 🙂
Beware of any lurking arrow shafts in your neighbourhood....er Mike bought some super-tweeters to help with the dull sounding JX92X drivers...
stew
To echo what's been said in a current thread, another great sounding and relatively simple design for the FE127 (compared to the Fonken) would be the Brynn.
Hmm. Oddly enough, the new Lotus box might fit the bill: http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/Lotus-CHR70-map-130409.pdf
Mark Audio CHR-70s (worryingly good for the money), simple build, can be used with twin drivers per box if you need greater power-handling (one forward & 1 sideways firing). It's relatively compact, as these things go. If that's still too big, I'd suggest looking at the Fonken or Brynn with the FE127E, or preferably Dave's heavily upgraded P10127eN.
Don't go the Wilmslow route. The Fostex factory cabs really aren't especially great, and Wilmslow themselves are not a company I could advise doing business with.
Mark Audio CHR-70s (worryingly good for the money), simple build, can be used with twin drivers per box if you need greater power-handling (one forward & 1 sideways firing). It's relatively compact, as these things go. If that's still too big, I'd suggest looking at the Fonken or Brynn with the FE127E, or preferably Dave's heavily upgraded P10127eN.
Don't go the Wilmslow route. The Fostex factory cabs really aren't especially great, and Wilmslow themselves are not a company I could advise doing business with.
I haved decided to try the Brynn with the FE127E, or maybe the P10127eN. Good starting point, hopefully a decent result.
I have some further questions, sorry:
1) I assume birch ply and not MDF?
2) Can i do the Brynn with all straight cuts, i have no chance of good 45 degree cuts and want this to be DIY?
2) Good UK stockists for FE127E, if Wilmslow are to be avoided?
Again thanks for all the advice, this is a very helpful forum.
Mark.
I have some further questions, sorry:
1) I assume birch ply and not MDF?
2) Can i do the Brynn with all straight cuts, i have no chance of good 45 degree cuts and want this to be DIY?
2) Good UK stockists for FE127E, if Wilmslow are to be avoided?
Again thanks for all the advice, this is a very helpful forum.
Mark.
1/ Yes
2/ Yes
3/ There aren't any. Wilmslow (now wash your mouth out) are the only UK source. Personally, I'd suggest Wolfgang at www.spectrumaudio.de -he speaks better English than I do. There are a few Ebay sellers as well (as in new ones) that are quite decent, so have a look around.
2/ Yes
3/ There aren't any. Wilmslow (now wash your mouth out) are the only UK source. Personally, I'd suggest Wolfgang at www.spectrumaudio.de -he speaks better English than I do. There are a few Ebay sellers as well (as in new ones) that are quite decent, so have a look around.
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