I was wondering what type/brands of stains people used for birch plywood, as Ive tried staing a few off cuts, but none seem to work effectively, or yellow the wood to much.
You can go many ways here.
If you are purely interested in achieving yellow-tinged plywood, you can't get better than Varathane. I don't know wht you have over there, but most of the oil-based floor finishes should give similar results.
As for easy-to-use finishes in general, my favorite is to use tung oil for colour and then cover with a clear coat. And I've yet to try them, but just keep hearing great things about gel stains.
If you are purely interested in achieving yellow-tinged plywood, you can't get better than Varathane. I don't know wht you have over there, but most of the oil-based floor finishes should give similar results.
As for easy-to-use finishes in general, my favorite is to use tung oil for colour and then cover with a clear coat. And I've yet to try them, but just keep hearing great things about gel stains.
I like the WATCO finishes -- deep penetrating finishes. I have never been happy with the varnishes with incorporated stain -- they don't take abuse well.
Recently I've been using Thompson Water Seal (made for decks mostly) and the results are very good. Brings out the natural color and texture of the wood and protects without external appearance of any coating. BTW, this type of finish is sometimes used in high traffic areas, on hardwood floors, as it's more durable and easily repeatable comparing to finishes that leave an external coat (like lacquers). Easy to apply too.
I used birch on my DIII's and after being pleased with the job I'd done after years away from woodworking, promplty hosed everything by getting a blotchy stain (still sound great though). I believe I should have used a pre-conditioner. There's some perspective here http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/wood/msg0222525214703.html
If you are trully wanting to colour the wood evenly....
Start off with a smooth surface sanded to 180 grit. Then take a damp cloth (Water) and wipe the surface. Let it dry and sand it again. It is amazing that we think the surface of wood is smooth and it is NOT. If you have raised the grain sanded throughly with a pad by hand!! NOT WITH A VIBRATING PAD SANDER you are ready to start the staining. Birch, as well as cherry and maple are all pains in the butt to stain evenly. The trick is to coat the surface with a blonde shellac first. This is sometimes found as shellac but most often as Pre-Stain. Then apply the stain after it dries no longer than 1 hour after it is dry to the touch. The reasons are that the shellac will not let the stain soak into the wood. Crazy??? Nope if you want an even colour you want to do this. The time constraint is to make sure that the coats adhere to each other. Apply your stain and let it sit to penetrate the surface. It may take onger or a number of applications of stain to get where you want but be patient and practice on scrap first. When you are applying your finnish of choice over your colour apply at least three thin (THIN) coats and then sand them with 320 grit and apply another coat of finnish sand this with 400 grit. Wipe the surface clean and put the last coat on.
Be carefull not to mix different finnishes like water borne and solvent borne. They do not mix!! and they cannot be used over top of one another successfully no matter what the sales person would like to tell you. Hope this helps answer your question.
Mark
Start off with a smooth surface sanded to 180 grit. Then take a damp cloth (Water) and wipe the surface. Let it dry and sand it again. It is amazing that we think the surface of wood is smooth and it is NOT. If you have raised the grain sanded throughly with a pad by hand!! NOT WITH A VIBRATING PAD SANDER you are ready to start the staining. Birch, as well as cherry and maple are all pains in the butt to stain evenly. The trick is to coat the surface with a blonde shellac first. This is sometimes found as shellac but most often as Pre-Stain. Then apply the stain after it dries no longer than 1 hour after it is dry to the touch. The reasons are that the shellac will not let the stain soak into the wood. Crazy??? Nope if you want an even colour you want to do this. The time constraint is to make sure that the coats adhere to each other. Apply your stain and let it sit to penetrate the surface. It may take onger or a number of applications of stain to get where you want but be patient and practice on scrap first. When you are applying your finnish of choice over your colour apply at least three thin (THIN) coats and then sand them with 320 grit and apply another coat of finnish sand this with 400 grit. Wipe the surface clean and put the last coat on.
Be carefull not to mix different finnishes like water borne and solvent borne. They do not mix!! and they cannot be used over top of one another successfully no matter what the sales person would like to tell you. Hope this helps answer your question.
Mark
Yes, it is crazy
Resinous woods like pine and cedar, some exotic woods are difficult to stain evenly -- ok to use the shellac -- a very thinned amount (use flakes, cut in methyl alcohol), not the canned variety.) You want to work quickly with the shellac and don't do this on a humid day.
Birch and oak veneers, au contraire, are easy to stain evenly and do not require pretreatment.
btw, Thomson's Water Seal is a mixture of paraffin and petroleum distillates (well, paraffin is also a distallate, comes from what are called "refinery bottoms"!) -- I wouldn't even use it on a deck any more as it's a dirt magnet.
mwmkravchenko said:
Resinous woods like pine and cedar, some exotic woods are difficult to stain evenly -- ok to use the shellac -- a very thinned amount (use flakes, cut in methyl alcohol), not the canned variety.) You want to work quickly with the shellac and don't do this on a humid day.
Birch and oak veneers, au contraire, are easy to stain evenly and do not require pretreatment.
btw, Thomson's Water Seal is a mixture of paraffin and petroleum distillates (well, paraffin is also a distallate, comes from what are called "refinery bottoms"!) -- I wouldn't even use it on a deck any more as it's a dirt magnet.
Re: Thompsons Water Seal
Maybe that's why I like to work with it. It's much easier to apply than "real" wood finish. The results? Well, it works for me
mwmkravchenko said:
Maybe that's why I like to work with it. It's much easier to apply than "real" wood finish. The results? Well, it works for me
In the case of Thomson's, either "a chacun son gout" or "a chacun son goop" would be more appropriate 🙂
Re: Re: Re: Thompsons -- pardon my Francais"
So what exactly the two of you did using infamous Thompson's?
jackinnj said:
leadbelly said:
So what exactly the two of you did using infamous Thompson's?
Well, actually, I just use it for exterior wood. But, hey, go crazy Peter and slap it on everything.
I'm a bit disappointed to find you using TWS. I half expected a thread where you compared the sound of Varathane, Minwax, and Canada's national paint, Tremclad... 🙂 🙂
leadbelly said:
So untill you use it on something inside the house, we don't really have anything to talk about.
Have you considered using a glaze as opposed to a stain? More control of color uniformity but you lose the depth in the grain. We are talking about birch and not Tamo Ash after all.
Personally, I don't really like stains as they sort of work as LPF (if I can use GC analogy), taking away the depth of grain and natural color of wood. I tried TWS only because I had it in my garage and after two years of applying it for a first time, I didn't notice any drawbacks. I use it on Ikea wooden countertops, on speakers enclosures, on veneered wall panels and of course, on decks. Works fine for me. I can apply it to the max in several coats, whatever doesn't penetrate the wood is wiped off with a rug and next day wood still looks like wood and not like plastic.
But I wouldn't mind if you can enlighten me and recommend a better product, which is similar to TWS, yet more "real" wood finish😉
But I wouldn't mind if you can enlighten me and recommend a better product, which is similar to TWS, yet more "real" wood finish😉
The final Finish
You sound like an oil man. They can be applied to most everything and wiped off. A lighter color one is tung oil. The down side is the drying time. Do it in the summer and you will wait a week or more. Sorry to burst your bubble with the Thompsons🙄
Mark
You sound like an oil man. They can be applied to most everything and wiped off. A lighter color one is tung oil. The down side is the drying time. Do it in the summer and you will wait a week or more. Sorry to burst your bubble with the Thompsons🙄
Mark
Hi Mark ,Peter and others
I use a mix of the following:-
Raw Linseed Oil Ethyl Alchohol (Meths) Bees Wax for clear
same as above with Spirit based stain of choice for changing colour .
a suitable shoe/boot polish can be substituted for colour , my favourite being "OX-Blood Nugget" very deep red .
prep: heat oil gently , melt bees wax into oil amd stir for a homogenous mix remove from heat add stain or clear spirit Be carefull to do this away from the heat source ,outside is best and stir .
to apply cotton waste/wool in double nylon stocking wrap to form a pad dip and apply in circular motion to wood surface.
Alchohol will evaporate eventually and mix will stiffen just apply gentle heat and more spirit (not colour) and continue.
Wood surface to be hand sanded to an even finish with 200 paper
prefer waterproof (Al oxide) type myself.
300ml -400ml oil to cup B wax +enough stain/clear spirit to make a suitable mix for rubbing (not too thin)
Another caution melting bees wax attracts bees in large numbers so beware.
the above is labour intensive
regards
keith
PS please try the above on a sample before you adopt as there is no gaurantee that the finish will fit your taste exactly:
to bleach wood to a lighter colour apply oxygen peroxide(liquid) 40% and follow immeadiatly with ammonia(brush) , allow to dry repeat until light enough for you . when completely dry sand and apply the above without colouring , again try a sample wood doesn't alwys bleach the way expected.
(mid nose and eyes when attempting the above , use a paint mask or damp hankerchief over the nose/mouth)
cheers
I use a mix of the following:-
Raw Linseed Oil Ethyl Alchohol (Meths) Bees Wax for clear
same as above with Spirit based stain of choice for changing colour .
a suitable shoe/boot polish can be substituted for colour , my favourite being "OX-Blood Nugget" very deep red .
prep: heat oil gently , melt bees wax into oil amd stir for a homogenous mix remove from heat add stain or clear spirit Be carefull to do this away from the heat source ,outside is best and stir .
to apply cotton waste/wool in double nylon stocking wrap to form a pad dip and apply in circular motion to wood surface.
Alchohol will evaporate eventually and mix will stiffen just apply gentle heat and more spirit (not colour) and continue.
Wood surface to be hand sanded to an even finish with 200 paper
prefer waterproof (Al oxide) type myself.
300ml -400ml oil to cup B wax +enough stain/clear spirit to make a suitable mix for rubbing (not too thin)
Another caution melting bees wax attracts bees in large numbers so beware.
the above is labour intensive
regards
keith
PS please try the above on a sample before you adopt as there is no gaurantee that the finish will fit your taste exactly:
to bleach wood to a lighter colour apply oxygen peroxide(liquid) 40% and follow immeadiatly with ammonia(brush) , allow to dry repeat until light enough for you . when completely dry sand and apply the above without colouring , again try a sample wood doesn't alwys bleach the way expected.
(mid nose and eyes when attempting the above , use a paint mask or damp hankerchief over the nose/mouth)
cheers
NGR Stains
To them that cares to see the wood grain clearly ( Me included ) I recomend Non Grain Raising Aniline Dye stain. You can get it at Lee Valley in a Variety of colours and they mix to form more. I have sucessfully tinted varnishes and laquers with them as well.
It really looks nicer than the pigmented stains. Once you get uysed to them you hardly ever go back.
Mark
To them that cares to see the wood grain clearly ( Me included ) I recomend Non Grain Raising Aniline Dye stain. You can get it at Lee Valley in a Variety of colours and they mix to form more. I have sucessfully tinted varnishes and laquers with them as well.
It really looks nicer than the pigmented stains. Once you get uysed to them you hardly ever go back.
Mark
Black stain + Thomsons
first Thomsons -- ok, so it works on an interior finish -- if you really want a nice finish, try "French Polishing" --
my experience with Thomsons was that it attracts dirt like a magnet.
black stain -- I recall an article in Fine Woodworking -- and it was a long, long time ago -- of a woodworker using amonia fumes to stain oak.
first Thomsons -- ok, so it works on an interior finish -- if you really want a nice finish, try "French Polishing" --
my experience with Thomsons was that it attracts dirt like a magnet.
black stain -- I recall an article in Fine Woodworking -- and it was a long, long time ago -- of a woodworker using amonia fumes to stain oak.
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