Finally considering two options. Both are 10l internal volume, -3db @55hz. They also both use a pair of Dayton DS175-PR passive radiators on their sides.
First option:
- 2x TB W6-2313 6.5" coax - 320€
- 4x DS175-PR -95€
Total= 415€
Second option:
- 2x Seas CA15RLY 5" woofer - 150€
- 4x DS175-PR - 95€
- 2x Dayton RST28F tweeter - 72€
- 2x Visaton WG148R waveguide - 29€
Total= 346€
Hypex is getting rid of the last AS2.100d for 200€ a piece, that's fairly tempting...
First option:
- 2x TB W6-2313 6.5" coax - 320€
- 4x DS175-PR -95€
Total= 415€
Second option:
- 2x Seas CA15RLY 5" woofer - 150€
- 4x DS175-PR - 95€
- 2x Dayton RST28F tweeter - 72€
- 2x Visaton WG148R waveguide - 29€
Total= 346€
Hypex is getting rid of the last AS2.100d for 200€ a piece, that's fairly tempting...
Why? Space, simplicity, coolness. Modern full-range drivers often employ a mechanical crossover. If you are going to use DSP anyway, another option is the Peerless 4" full range driver which I've seen used in full-length line arrays.
Peerless by Tymphany TG9FD-10-04 3-1/2" Glass Fiber Cone Full Range
Peerless by Tymphany TG9FD-10-04 3-1/2" Glass Fiber Cone Full Range
Yeah... I should have started by recommending a popular BIG desk speaker so the 8" coaxial would seem small. My desk speakers use a 7.5" midwoofer + 1" tweeter in a 0.7 cuft ported cabinet. When I am not sitting at my desk, I often use these speakers to fill the room with music or news reports while I read on the couch, eat a snack, stretch, pace the floor, etc....
The 6.5" coaxial can easily fill the room with music.
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Well... to put it in another way. Attached is the spl achieved with the two options described above, a bit before xmax is reached. Being a 6.5", the TB goes 3db louder than the Seas. There's no way to achieve this kind of figures with a small full range, unless crossed relatively high with a sub. Power required isn't that bad btw. 25W at worst for the Seas, 40W for the TB.
Now, I know I don't exactly need that much power, especially in the kind of setup the speakers will be used, with probably no BSC needed and some frequencies that will need to be padded down. But I'd rather have too much in reserve than too little.
Btw, those little vifa are the basis of the Nola Brio Trio which is an interesting design.
Now, I know I don't exactly need that much power, especially in the kind of setup the speakers will be used, with probably no BSC needed and some frequencies that will need to be padded down. But I'd rather have too much in reserve than too little.
Btw, those little vifa are the basis of the Nola Brio Trio which is an interesting design.
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That is incredibly tempting, especially when it comes to actually finishing projects (this may be my curse, but I doubt it, although you seem to finish what you start).
My bet is that the 2x 5" are going to do a bit better. Those Seas drivers are nice. TMM with baffle step compensation or something else in mind?
Another vote for the Redeyes. Nice meaty sound from them. If I was younger I'd fuss over the lack of top end but my 50+year old hearing doesn't care. I have a pair of Dayton ND20FB-4 tweeters lying around but have resisted the urge to build another pair with a crossover..... so far.
Sorry, that was a bit confusing. It's one 5" per speaker, 2 in total. For a desk, I think one is enough. Now a small tower might use two for BSC indeed.
The first fullrange I've found that kind of makes me wonder is the Pluvia 11. It's similar in size to the TB coax. But it's getting big and I can't find off axis measurements.
The more I look at it, the more the Pluvia 11 looks attractive as a middle ground option. It responds better to a sealed box than the TB coax (a 7mm xmax helps).
In a sealed 10l box with a LT transform and a relatively aggressive HPF @35hz, you can go up to 97db with a -3db point at 50hz (94db thus) before hitting xmax. It's quite efficient so only 15W are needed at the worst point.
Furthermore, I would only need one stereo amp. It's even more tempting to get one as2.100d, which could power both and serve as external DSP. Less problems than a software solution in the long term.
In a sealed 10l box with a LT transform and a relatively aggressive HPF @35hz, you can go up to 97db with a -3db point at 50hz (94db thus) before hitting xmax. It's quite efficient so only 15W are needed at the worst point.
Furthermore, I would only need one stereo amp. It's even more tempting to get one as2.100d, which could power both and serve as external DSP. Less problems than a software solution in the long term.
Having some fun in Tinkercad. Two 11l boxes for either the TB W6-2313 or the Pluvia 11, in 18mm mdf (30mm colored mdf for the front). A tad big at 300H*220W*280D. I could probably win a few cm here and there by filling the Pluvia box. Getting it down to 9.5l before stuffing or so.
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Bringing down the Pluvia 11 to a 7l box (internal) makes a cute little speaker. 300H*190W*230D.
I had a look to the other options. From left to right: Pluvia in a sealed box, TB coax with passive radiators, ca15rly with rst28f with radiators or a slot port. This last option might be a nice budget option with a passive crossover.
I had a look to the other options. From left to right: Pluvia in a sealed box, TB coax with passive radiators, ca15rly with rst28f with radiators or a slot port. This last option might be a nice budget option with a passive crossover.
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If you measure your seated ear height, you might want to sketch out a tall cabinet for the point source TB W6-2313 6.5" coax to match that ear height. For simplicity, consider a port on the outer side panel at a height which will not get blocked by papers and books on your desk.
A bottom slot port could easily get blocked by desktop papers/books/snacks.
I have seen desktop speakers where the port tube was placed completely outside of the cabinet. The owner would unscrew the port tube and screw in a plug for sealed operation.
---- SKYPE ---- sounds best on a low Qtc sealed speaker. == filters out cheap mic noise
A bottom slot port could easily get blocked by desktop papers/books/snacks.
I have seen desktop speakers where the port tube was placed completely outside of the cabinet. The owner would unscrew the port tube and screw in a plug for sealed operation.
---- SKYPE ---- sounds best on a low Qtc sealed speaker. == filters out cheap mic noise
Its a brave project designing a desktop near field monitor that's going to sound better compared to multiple commercial designs.
Perhaps DIY can come up with a weird cheap OK sounding bespoke solution? How about a tall thin back loaded horn so eg a single driver is at ear level for best imaging, no crossover nasties, some bass and a wall hugging design with a wedge profile looking down and the front panel angled direct at the ears. Ive never tired it but someone has:
YouTube - 2" backloaded desktop speakers
Perhaps DIY can come up with a weird cheap OK sounding bespoke solution? How about a tall thin back loaded horn so eg a single driver is at ear level for best imaging, no crossover nasties, some bass and a wall hugging design with a wedge profile looking down and the front panel angled direct at the ears. Ive never tired it but someone has:
YouTube - 2" backloaded desktop speakers
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@LineSource: to bring the center of the W6-2313 to ears level requires a small 550mm high column. Difficult to go thinner than 220m wide if we want to let the driver breathe a bit. It's going to be very imposing on a desk. What I had in mind was either small stands or dense foam pads, aiming the speakers at you. OTOH, a tall speaker can be made less deep.
It's not impossible. I've quickly sketched something. I've to check with my brother if he's willing to live with that. The speakers he pointed out to me as inspirations were more traditional little 2 ways.
Btw, isn't this the multi-way forum ?
I'm surprised how many full range suggestions I get. Once again, I'm not very interested by small full range drivers. Please don't take it badly, I'm not saying you can't get results with them. They just have very little appeal to me.
It's not impossible. I've quickly sketched something. I've to check with my brother if he's willing to live with that. The speakers he pointed out to me as inspirations were more traditional little 2 ways.
Btw, isn't this the multi-way forum ?
I'm surprised how many full range suggestions I get. Once again, I'm not very interested by small full range drivers. Please don't take it badly, I'm not saying you can't get results with them. They just have very little appeal to me.Attachments
Today I made a large simple panel, with good results. Maybe also the screen could help. And some lavoration of the edges:
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Ok, I think that's it now.
The final design is going towards this: 1 x seas 27tffc tweeter loaded on a wg148r, with 2x Peerless 830991 in an MTM config. Each speaker being driven by a Hypex as2.100d. A sealed 8L box, 440h*180w*230d. 19mm colored mdf (it's denser than common mdf).
Two 5" woofers will give me more headroom for EQ. The peerless are about 1/2 the price of the Seas but the sims in winisd aren't looking too bad. Their truncated frames will allow a short spacing with the tweeter's waveguide.
The change of tweeter is just dictated by simplicity. toutlehautparleur.com has all these drivers in stock. The seas is a bit less robust than the Dayton rst28f but with a waveguide it should cross under 2khz. It should also be easier to mount on the wg148r.
Total cost (without enclosure) : 400€ worth of amps and 250€ worth of drivers, 650€. Probably 800€ all said and done.
The final design is going towards this: 1 x seas 27tffc tweeter loaded on a wg148r, with 2x Peerless 830991 in an MTM config. Each speaker being driven by a Hypex as2.100d. A sealed 8L box, 440h*180w*230d. 19mm colored mdf (it's denser than common mdf).
Two 5" woofers will give me more headroom for EQ. The peerless are about 1/2 the price of the Seas but the sims in winisd aren't looking too bad. Their truncated frames will allow a short spacing with the tweeter's waveguide.
The change of tweeter is just dictated by simplicity. toutlehautparleur.com has all these drivers in stock. The seas is a bit less robust than the Dayton rst28f but with a waveguide it should cross under 2khz. It should also be easier to mount on the wg148r.
Total cost (without enclosure) : 400€ worth of amps and 250€ worth of drivers, 650€. Probably 800€ all said and done.
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Opportunity for Greatness ......DSP + modern aluminum cone drivers.
The DSP on the Hypex as2.100d will easily support the steeper crossover slopes required to pull the solid bass and detailed midrange from the advanced aluminum cone 6.5" SB-Acoustics SB17NAC35-4 and the aluminum dome SB26ADC-4 tweeter, with steep attenuation of the aluminum cone breakup artifacts. 0.6cuft(17l) ported cabinet (H16"--W9"--D12"). 38Hz port = 2" diameter + 8" long. (SB26ADC tweeter is used by Harman/Revel)
====================
some thoughts on designs discussed....
====
MTM topology speakers require several feet before the three air pressure wavefronts combine into one lobe. Not a popular choice for a nearfield desktop speaker.
===========
The 6.5" Tang Band W6-2313 coaxial with ear level placement would produce a "clean-clean-clean" near field sound, ideal for listening to audio books, test tones, and producing accurate nearfield sound stage music.
===========
With Passive Crossover...
The reduced cone breakup from poly-plastic cone on the 6.5" SB-Acoustics SB17MFC35-4 allows great sound from a simple passive crossover with the SB26STAC-4 tweeter. Jeff Bagby Tributes use them in a 0.6cuft(17l) ported cabinet? (H16"--W9"--D12") ... a high value general music desk speaker.
The DSP on the Hypex as2.100d will easily support the steeper crossover slopes required to pull the solid bass and detailed midrange from the advanced aluminum cone 6.5" SB-Acoustics SB17NAC35-4 and the aluminum dome SB26ADC-4 tweeter, with steep attenuation of the aluminum cone breakup artifacts. 0.6cuft(17l) ported cabinet (H16"--W9"--D12"). 38Hz port = 2" diameter + 8" long. (SB26ADC tweeter is used by Harman/Revel)
====================
some thoughts on designs discussed....
====
MTM topology speakers require several feet before the three air pressure wavefronts combine into one lobe. Not a popular choice for a nearfield desktop speaker.
===========
The 6.5" Tang Band W6-2313 coaxial with ear level placement would produce a "clean-clean-clean" near field sound, ideal for listening to audio books, test tones, and producing accurate nearfield sound stage music.
===========
With Passive Crossover...
The reduced cone breakup from poly-plastic cone on the 6.5" SB-Acoustics SB17MFC35-4 allows great sound from a simple passive crossover with the SB26STAC-4 tweeter. Jeff Bagby Tributes use them in a 0.6cuft(17l) ported cabinet? (H16"--W9"--D12") ... a high value general music desk speaker.
The problem with any 6.5" driver is how wide they are... My brother was less than enthusiastic with sketches for anything bigger than a 5".
How important is it to let space around the driver rear ? The W6-2313 's basket is 148mm wide. Add 38mm for 19mm side walls and we're at 186mm. How thin can I make the front baffle ?
How important is it to let space around the driver rear ? The W6-2313 's basket is 148mm wide. Add 38mm for 19mm side walls and we're at 186mm. How thin can I make the front baffle ?
Hello, My name is Grinch.
On this forum, a speaker with $400 in DSP Hypex amps is expected to ROCK your world and bring a TEAR from a Madam Butterfly Aria.
=====
=======You can love your brother with small monitors....and still keep the Hypex DSP amps for your future build===
=====
If you plan to spend $400 for a pair of DSP Hypex as2.100d amps, exploring higher performance drivers (SB17NAC35-4 + SB26ADC-4 =$100) in a modest size cabinet seems "worth some effort". You and your brother would need to select an acceptable size and shape. {SB17NAC35-5 has 171mm=6.7" outer rim and 144mm=5.7" inner rim} an 8" cabinet width seems acceptable, but 9" wide is favored for clean midrange. Exposed Baltic Birch is sexy, and your brother might accept a larger size sexy cabinet.
Smallest 0.5cuft=15l empty 0.75" plywood cabinet(9"W_16"H_10"D) with equalized bass. Consider taller ear level 0.6cuft=17l = 9"W_18"H_10"D
============
Too big?
============
If you plan to use a modest cost stereo amp for your brother and use the Hypex for your "plan", the $130 6.5" Tang Band W6-2313 Coaxial with a LR2/LR2 passive crossover from the diy-threads is a great combination. A tall ported desk top cabinet which puts the speaker at ear level would produce a coherent soundstage. Keep it simple. A standard passive crossover speaker is easily to move and share.
{ W6-2313 has 180mm=7.1" outer rim and 148mm=5.8" inner rim} a 8" cabinet width seems acceptable.
============
Too big?
============
If your brother requires a small two-way with internal volume approximately 7.5 liters that measures about 13” tall by 7.5” wide by 8” deep with a side port , you can fit the 5" + 1" neutral sounding SB15MFC30-4 and (SB21SDC-4 or SB26STAC) with modest cost passive circuits.
=====
====You can love your brother with small monitors....and still keep the Hypex DSP amps for your future build===
Grinch.
P.S. You could also use this trip to the woodshop to cut wood for a 0.75cuft 19l (empty) low diffraction Troels Illuminator cabinet 10"W_17"H_14"D, often used TM_WW with two 8" woofers.
=====
On this forum, a speaker with $400 in DSP Hypex amps is expected to ROCK your world and bring a TEAR from a Madam Butterfly Aria.
=====
=======You can love your brother with small monitors....and still keep the Hypex DSP amps for your future build===
=====
If you plan to spend $400 for a pair of DSP Hypex as2.100d amps, exploring higher performance drivers (SB17NAC35-4 + SB26ADC-4 =$100) in a modest size cabinet seems "worth some effort". You and your brother would need to select an acceptable size and shape. {SB17NAC35-5 has 171mm=6.7" outer rim and 144mm=5.7" inner rim} an 8" cabinet width seems acceptable, but 9" wide is favored for clean midrange. Exposed Baltic Birch is sexy, and your brother might accept a larger size sexy cabinet.
Smallest 0.5cuft=15l empty 0.75" plywood cabinet(9"W_16"H_10"D) with equalized bass. Consider taller ear level 0.6cuft=17l = 9"W_18"H_10"D
============
Too big?
============
If you plan to use a modest cost stereo amp for your brother and use the Hypex for your "plan", the $130 6.5" Tang Band W6-2313 Coaxial with a LR2/LR2 passive crossover from the diy-threads is a great combination. A tall ported desk top cabinet which puts the speaker at ear level would produce a coherent soundstage. Keep it simple. A standard passive crossover speaker is easily to move and share.
{ W6-2313 has 180mm=7.1" outer rim and 148mm=5.8" inner rim} a 8" cabinet width seems acceptable.
============
Too big?
============
If your brother requires a small two-way with internal volume approximately 7.5 liters that measures about 13” tall by 7.5” wide by 8” deep with a side port , you can fit the 5" + 1" neutral sounding SB15MFC30-4 and (SB21SDC-4 or SB26STAC) with modest cost passive circuits.
=====
====You can love your brother with small monitors....and still keep the Hypex DSP amps for your future build===
Grinch.
P.S. You could also use this trip to the woodshop to cut wood for a 0.75cuft 19l (empty) low diffraction Troels Illuminator cabinet 10"W_17"H_14"D, often used TM_WW with two 8" woofers.
=====
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