Hi All,
I am new to the amplifiers and speakers and still doing basic research to identify what is the best speaker system and amplifier that I can build for my living room TV. This is my first question related to audio in a public forum. 😱
From the Audio system what I want to achieve is.
1) Very high sound quality
2) Low distortion and very good clarity
3) Low budget
To achieve the above what would be the best speaker system? Is it 2.1 (with subwoofer) or 2 way with full-range speakers?
thanks!!
I am new to the amplifiers and speakers and still doing basic research to identify what is the best speaker system and amplifier that I can build for my living room TV. This is my first question related to audio in a public forum. 😱
From the Audio system what I want to achieve is.
1) Very high sound quality
2) Low distortion and very good clarity
3) Low budget
To achieve the above what would be the best speaker system? Is it 2.1 (with subwoofer) or 2 way with full-range speakers?
thanks!!
If you go for best quality, usualy a very good two way system will work best, which is accompanied with one or two subwoofers taking over at around 80Hz.
So you can place the (relative) small speakers at the best position for listening in your room and put the large volume sub cabinets on the floor. Also, the most critical midd-low crossover is active, which saves a lot of expensive material. Last advantage, the high current bass signals do not influence the midd-high amp, leading to more relaxed reproduction on most amps.
There are a many great two way combinations for DIYS that improve incredible when combined with subwoofers.
With large full range floorstanders you are very limited in placing them and need a very stable amp.
So you can place the (relative) small speakers at the best position for listening in your room and put the large volume sub cabinets on the floor. Also, the most critical midd-low crossover is active, which saves a lot of expensive material. Last advantage, the high current bass signals do not influence the midd-high amp, leading to more relaxed reproduction on most amps.
There are a many great two way combinations for DIYS that improve incredible when combined with subwoofers.
With large full range floorstanders you are very limited in placing them and need a very stable amp.
Thanks a lot for the reply.
"the most critical midd-low crossover is active, which saves a lot of expensive material" can you explain more on this ?
I just have the basic idea about the crossover.
"high current bass signals do not influence the midd-high amp,"
please guide me to understand this as well.
So the bottom line is, it is better to use one or two subwoofers.
Thanks again!!
OK, you asked. I speak for the Euro-region, so your local situation may vary.
If you DIYS speakers, a 3-way will need a x-over for it´s low-middle separation of woofer and middrange. As coils and capacitors get more expensive, the higher their values are and values get higher, the lower the x-over frequency is, you will pay a sensitive amount of money for it. Prices for passive x-over parts have been pushed to ridiculous levels in the last decades. Some time ago the passive x-over was something that consisted of handfull different parts and made only a small fraction oft the loudspeaker´s kit´s price. Today the same handfull of parts often makes half of the kit´s price, even if you don´t buy the most expensive version. So coils and caps for a decent 200 Hz 12 dB/oct separation, which, by the way is not state of the art for 2.1 will cost you more than a complete plate amp for your woofer, making it an active sub. Even less if you combine your own chip amps. Something like a 80Hz/24dB/oct x-over is unobtainium with passive parts. The modern, todays version of a x-over will use a DSP that can even correct some room problems if you adjust it right. So compare the part price of a full blown "Mundorf High End X-Over" to a DSP, 1-4 chip amps, a power supply and a case. Not only is the last option much more flexible, but sound quality will profit, too. A 4-channel DSP will start at 20€... less than one average quality audio capacitor of 80uF.
The other point, if two different amps are used for high-mid and low frequency, the bass signals high current doesn not influence the tiny high tone ones. Have you never thought how an amp can put out low impacts like a bass drum, the same time you hear a flute? Yes, indeed, this is quite some delicate work. So if you leave the wall shattering bass to one amp and take another one for the fine print, as a result both ways should sound better. To make it simple: You take a more coarse, strong high power amp for the bass and leave the mid-high to a weaker, but more refined amp. In extreme you could use a class-D for bass and a tube amp or class-A for the rest.
As anything in audio, this whole thing is relative and my personal oppinion, essence from quite some years of HIFI and DIYS.
So, if you have a perfect listening room, a top class 3-way floorstander and mulit watt a high end amplifier, your system may sound much better than a simple 2.1 system. OK.
In the real world, where money matters, a well planed 2.1 or 2.2 system will beat most floorstanders that are offered on the DIYS market by sound quality and ease of installation. An interesting point might be to built a high quality set of (two-way) speakers, that can be enjoyed for them selves with limited sound pressure and no real deep impact. Then, when funds allow, build one and/or later a second sub to complete your system.
Maybe one rule that you should follow: You don´t save with DIYS if you use cheap material. The industry beats you in building mediocre junk, always. Don´t buy any no name speaker occasions. Use some good basic material, like Seas, Dynaudio, Peerless or some of the newer names, like TB, SBacoustics, Wavecor, Eaton. As a beginner, build a proven kit and don´t "improve" on the plan. Later, if you know more about speaker building, you will know why. If you want to modify, ask first, don´t build or buy without seeking advice. Constructing speakers is an art that only a handfull of people around the globe really master. What to buy? Seas and Dynaudio vor example have some very interesting lower budget lines that do not compromise on sound quality. Using such material in the right way will net you some speakers you will not buy commercially made under a kilo of Euros. What to choose depends on your location, of course. If you are near to the US market, Dayton may be a brand to consider.
I hope that helped a bit.
If you DIYS speakers, a 3-way will need a x-over for it´s low-middle separation of woofer and middrange. As coils and capacitors get more expensive, the higher their values are and values get higher, the lower the x-over frequency is, you will pay a sensitive amount of money for it. Prices for passive x-over parts have been pushed to ridiculous levels in the last decades. Some time ago the passive x-over was something that consisted of handfull different parts and made only a small fraction oft the loudspeaker´s kit´s price. Today the same handfull of parts often makes half of the kit´s price, even if you don´t buy the most expensive version. So coils and caps for a decent 200 Hz 12 dB/oct separation, which, by the way is not state of the art for 2.1 will cost you more than a complete plate amp for your woofer, making it an active sub. Even less if you combine your own chip amps. Something like a 80Hz/24dB/oct x-over is unobtainium with passive parts. The modern, todays version of a x-over will use a DSP that can even correct some room problems if you adjust it right. So compare the part price of a full blown "Mundorf High End X-Over" to a DSP, 1-4 chip amps, a power supply and a case. Not only is the last option much more flexible, but sound quality will profit, too. A 4-channel DSP will start at 20€... less than one average quality audio capacitor of 80uF.
The other point, if two different amps are used for high-mid and low frequency, the bass signals high current doesn not influence the tiny high tone ones. Have you never thought how an amp can put out low impacts like a bass drum, the same time you hear a flute? Yes, indeed, this is quite some delicate work. So if you leave the wall shattering bass to one amp and take another one for the fine print, as a result both ways should sound better. To make it simple: You take a more coarse, strong high power amp for the bass and leave the mid-high to a weaker, but more refined amp. In extreme you could use a class-D for bass and a tube amp or class-A for the rest.
As anything in audio, this whole thing is relative and my personal oppinion, essence from quite some years of HIFI and DIYS.
So, if you have a perfect listening room, a top class 3-way floorstander and mulit watt a high end amplifier, your system may sound much better than a simple 2.1 system. OK.
In the real world, where money matters, a well planed 2.1 or 2.2 system will beat most floorstanders that are offered on the DIYS market by sound quality and ease of installation. An interesting point might be to built a high quality set of (two-way) speakers, that can be enjoyed for them selves with limited sound pressure and no real deep impact. Then, when funds allow, build one and/or later a second sub to complete your system.
Maybe one rule that you should follow: You don´t save with DIYS if you use cheap material. The industry beats you in building mediocre junk, always. Don´t buy any no name speaker occasions. Use some good basic material, like Seas, Dynaudio, Peerless or some of the newer names, like TB, SBacoustics, Wavecor, Eaton. As a beginner, build a proven kit and don´t "improve" on the plan. Later, if you know more about speaker building, you will know why. If you want to modify, ask first, don´t build or buy without seeking advice. Constructing speakers is an art that only a handfull of people around the globe really master. What to buy? Seas and Dynaudio vor example have some very interesting lower budget lines that do not compromise on sound quality. Using such material in the right way will net you some speakers you will not buy commercially made under a kilo of Euros. What to choose depends on your location, of course. If you are near to the US market, Dayton may be a brand to consider.
I hope that helped a bit.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation. I learned a lot!! And thanks for speaker suggestions as well.
Could you suggest (or guide me to find) a good DSP and classD/Tube/classA as well?
My main requirement is to listen classical/acoustic kind of music in a gentle manner (low volume). What would be the wattage/size of the speakers ?
Could you suggest (or guide me to find) a good DSP and classD/Tube/classA as well?
My main requirement is to listen classical/acoustic kind of music in a gentle manner (low volume). What would be the wattage/size of the speakers ?
What is "low budget?" There are a lot of options, depending on your budget. Even low budgets can provide a very good sounding system.
I'm not discounting either of the recommendations you've already received, just possibly adding more, since I have had the same kind of question. 🙂
Mike
I'm not discounting either of the recommendations you've already received, just possibly adding more, since I have had the same kind of question. 🙂
Mike
For DSP for your application I can recommend this:
miniDSP in a BOX : miniDSP 2x4 HD
The have an application note on 2.1 crossover set up.
And for amps you could browse the graph on this site to find your price/performance sweet spot:
Articles, Reviews and Measurements of Audio Products (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
More direct link to a version of the amp graph....not sure how many are 'low budget'.... the
Review and Measurements of Purifi 1ET400A Amplifier | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
miniDSP in a BOX : miniDSP 2x4 HD
The have an application note on 2.1 crossover set up.
And for amps you could browse the graph on this site to find your price/performance sweet spot:
Articles, Reviews and Measurements of Audio Products (As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases) | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
More direct link to a version of the amp graph....not sure how many are 'low budget'.... the
Review and Measurements of Purifi 1ET400A Amplifier | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
Adding further information ..
What @Turbowatch2 suggested
as I can understand.
So I might need a DSP like miniDSP in a BOX : miniDSP 4x10 Hd
And it is 499USD and too much cost for me.
if 499 is to expensive for you, also note that that won't include the amps.. Class A or tube will also not be very cheap. What about the Hypex Fusion FA122. It's around € 300,- each, but for that you get the amps included. If that is still to expensive, I guess you should just go for a passive system. Not that this will not even power a sub. That will cost you another 200 to 300 euro's probably.
If you want to limit the budget, you could also look at a 2-way WAF system: wideband and woofer. For instance using one of the Markaudio drivers and an 8" woofer. Then only the two FA122's are needed. You can put the 8" in a closed box and boost the low end a bit using the DSP. That keeps the system small, and since you don't need it to go loud, that would work out just fine (for instance SB23MFCL45-4).
If you want to limit the budget, you could also look at a 2-way WAF system: wideband and woofer. For instance using one of the Markaudio drivers and an 8" woofer. Then only the two FA122's are needed. You can put the 8" in a closed box and boost the low end a bit using the DSP. That keeps the system small, and since you don't need it to go loud, that would work out just fine (for instance SB23MFCL45-4).
Options for your speaker system depend on the country you live in, I can only speak for most of Europe, maybe US and Canada.
Consider the DSP that Wondom offers.
WONDOM | STORE
You will need an additional programmer like the one Wondom/Sure one or a less expensive, tecnically compareable CY7C68013A-56 EZ-USB FX2LP USB2.0 Develope Board Module Logic Analyzer EEPROM | eBay
Usualy I do not like sure, but for a "Programm once and use" solution, like an active speaker, to my knowledge it is the cheapest solution and will work very well soundwise. Sure has just made a minimum PCB to support the basic function of the ADAU1701 as described in it´s data sheet.
The programming is much more complicated than with the MiniDSP or others, as you need to attach an external programmer and jumper it. That is the price you pay for paying less. Once you have programmed it, you store the filters in the ADAU and remove the programmer. You have to read quite some instructions you have to find on the net first. There are Wiki´s as far as I know and a lot of advice here at the Forum. I would not have made mine working without some reading.
If you buy it, be sure to order the connector for programming and the one for in/out/power, as they used some not to common spacing.
I do not recommend to use any other Wondom products with it! if you think it might be easyer to go with their stuff, you are dead wrong. The customer support of Wondom is close to none, all they promise is sales talk. You are warned. My personal opinion of their amps and accessory: x-times more expensive but not better than some of the cheapest around. They are no High End HIFI company, but concentrate on commercial noise making stuff.
Consider the DSP that Wondom offers.
WONDOM | STORE
You will need an additional programmer like the one Wondom/Sure one or a less expensive, tecnically compareable CY7C68013A-56 EZ-USB FX2LP USB2.0 Develope Board Module Logic Analyzer EEPROM | eBay
Usualy I do not like sure, but for a "Programm once and use" solution, like an active speaker, to my knowledge it is the cheapest solution and will work very well soundwise. Sure has just made a minimum PCB to support the basic function of the ADAU1701 as described in it´s data sheet.
The programming is much more complicated than with the MiniDSP or others, as you need to attach an external programmer and jumper it. That is the price you pay for paying less. Once you have programmed it, you store the filters in the ADAU and remove the programmer. You have to read quite some instructions you have to find on the net first. There are Wiki´s as far as I know and a lot of advice here at the Forum. I would not have made mine working without some reading.
If you buy it, be sure to order the connector for programming and the one for in/out/power, as they used some not to common spacing.
I do not recommend to use any other Wondom products with it! if you think it might be easyer to go with their stuff, you are dead wrong. The customer support of Wondom is close to none, all they promise is sales talk. You are warned. My personal opinion of their amps and accessory: x-times more expensive but not better than some of the cheapest around. They are no High End HIFI company, but concentrate on commercial noise making stuff.
You can also build a "scalable" system. Start with an affordable amp and speakers. Mark Audio drivers are full-range drivers that can be included in a multi-way system if at some time you feel the need. However, they are designed and built to be used as full-range drivers, so they sound quite good in a variety of enclosures. There are good amps for $50 US dollars. For somewhere around $150 US dollars, you could have a simple system that sounds very good. You could then build onto it in the future if you so desired.
When someone says "budget" system, that means a lot of different thing to a lot of different people.
When someone says "budget" system, that means a lot of different thing to a lot of different people.
There are thousands of options for a set of speaker. It should be your part to find out which brands of speakers are available in your country and fit your budget.
I found this very cheap amp, that needs a power supply to work, to sound realy good.
You find it at any place, like Alibaba ect.
I do not know how to find a better price/ sound quality relation.
Two of these and as DSP should make a simple 2.1 or 2.2 system. Power supply can be a used laptop brick or any other power supply that fits in the voltage/ampere range.
TPA3116D2 Dual 50W Channel Stereo Digital Amplifier Board DC 5-24V dn | eBay
I found this very cheap amp, that needs a power supply to work, to sound realy good.
You find it at any place, like Alibaba ect.
I do not know how to find a better price/ sound quality relation.
Two of these and as DSP should make a simple 2.1 or 2.2 system. Power supply can be a used laptop brick or any other power supply that fits in the voltage/ampere range.
TPA3116D2 Dual 50W Channel Stereo Digital Amplifier Board DC 5-24V dn | eBay
Here is another board I can recommend, it has more power, if feed by the right supply.
A 3116D2 and a 7498e would make a nice combination, with the stronger amp for bass.
PS watch for the "e" version, it can run lower impedance speakers.
New TDA7498E 160W+160W 2 Channel Digital Audio High Power Amplifier Board Module 934179303412 | eBay
A 3116D2 and a 7498e would make a nice combination, with the stronger amp for bass.
PS watch for the "e" version, it can run lower impedance speakers.
New TDA7498E 160W+160W 2 Channel Digital Audio High Power Amplifier Board Module 934179303412 | eBay
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@Turbowatch2
Can you suggest good power supply for both of the following amps. I have ordered them and waiting for the goods.
Is it possible to manage this with one power supply by using step down for the smaller amp? What about the 500W selection of this product ?
AC-DC32V 100/180/200//300/360/400/480/500/600W LED Drive Switching Power Supply | eBay
AMPs I brought
------------------
New TDA7498E 160W+160W 2 Channel Digital Audio High Power Amplifier Board Module 934179303412 | eBay
TPA3116D2 Dual 50W Channel Stereo Digital Amplifier Board DC 5-24V dn | eBay
Can you suggest good power supply for both of the following amps. I have ordered them and waiting for the goods.
Is it possible to manage this with one power supply by using step down for the smaller amp? What about the 500W selection of this product ?
AC-DC32V 100/180/200//300/360/400/480/500/600W LED Drive Switching Power Supply | eBay
AMPs I brought
------------------
New TDA7498E 160W+160W 2 Channel Digital Audio High Power Amplifier Board Module 934179303412 | eBay
TPA3116D2 Dual 50W Channel Stereo Digital Amplifier Board DC 5-24V dn | eBay
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