Hi all,
how do I simulate AMT's with basta!? I want to build an open baffle speaker using Mundorf AMT's but it seems
that there are no T/S parameters for these drivers. I assume that it is not possible to "derive" them as the speaker
principle is so different...... Is there a workaround?
how do I simulate AMT's with basta!? I want to build an open baffle speaker using Mundorf AMT's but it seems
that there are no T/S parameters for these drivers. I assume that it is not possible to "derive" them as the speaker
principle is so different...... Is there a workaround?
Member
Joined 2003
What would you do with T/S for a tweeter even if you had them? Mount the driver on a baffle and take acoustic measurements is all that's required.
I admit that I am new to all of this. I wanted to do it "right" and simulate the whole open baffle with basta, so all three drivers I am planning to use. To match sensitivity levels and phase. Is that not neccesary?
Since I am planning to use the double-coil drivers from Acoustic Elegance (Dipole or LO series) I even thought if it might make sense to model the two coils individually and eventually apply different filters to them to better compensate for baffle loss.
Since I am planning to use the double-coil drivers from Acoustic Elegance (Dipole or LO series) I even thought if it might make sense to model the two coils individually and eventually apply different filters to them to better compensate for baffle loss.
Member
Joined 2003
Well Basta is primarily a box modelling application, there's not much useful features there that I see for an open baffle design. T/S is used to design a box, not that important for a tweeter.
"Do it right" is certainly open to interpretation, in my mind it would be to rely on real measured data as much as possible rather than a simulation, and armed with an education of acoustics in order to interpret the measured data to achieve the best result possible. With this in minds, a measurement jig and microphone are a must. For the AMT, acoustic measurement and impedance measurement are easily done just as any other tweeter. Have a close look at VituixCAD, it includes box model, diffraction model including open baffle (similar feature of Edge), and complete simulation of any type of crossover filter, provided accurate measured data is input into the software.
Start under the "How to Start working with VituixCAD" here:
https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/VituixCAD/VituixCAD_help_20.html
You will find measurement instructions for ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, and Clio there.
For the DVC woofers, you are free to experiment, however I see no reason to drive the two coils differently. A "correct" filter can be designed with both coils driven together. DVC usually is used to provide flexibility of load impedance and wiring when multiple drivers are used.
"Do it right" is certainly open to interpretation, in my mind it would be to rely on real measured data as much as possible rather than a simulation, and armed with an education of acoustics in order to interpret the measured data to achieve the best result possible. With this in minds, a measurement jig and microphone are a must. For the AMT, acoustic measurement and impedance measurement are easily done just as any other tweeter. Have a close look at VituixCAD, it includes box model, diffraction model including open baffle (similar feature of Edge), and complete simulation of any type of crossover filter, provided accurate measured data is input into the software.
Start under the "How to Start working with VituixCAD" here:
https://kimmosaunisto.net/Software/VituixCAD/VituixCAD_help_20.html
You will find measurement instructions for ARTA, REW, SoundEasy, and Clio there.
For the DVC woofers, you are free to experiment, however I see no reason to drive the two coils differently. A "correct" filter can be designed with both coils driven together. DVC usually is used to provide flexibility of load impedance and wiring when multiple drivers are used.
Basta has the same diffraction model as Edge - it was written by the same person. And it can model open baffles just as it can model boxes. It can also sim pretty much any passive crossover (and active crossovers). It's not as complete a design package as VituixCad, that's true, especially when it comes to working with measurements. But it's a really excellent sim package, not just a box modeller. Playing with it is a great way to build an understanding of many aspects of speaker design.
Member
Joined 2003
Yes, I know Basta and Edge are from the same person/company. I see "open baffle" checkbox in Edge, I do not see it in Basta. Must just be my lack of knowledge/experience..
You say "it can sim pretty much any passive and active crossover", I see the features for basic high pass, low pass and RLC filters only, It looks rather basic to me, geared towards bass drivers / box model. I will stick with my recommendation for using of VituixCAD as the "do it right" tool, especially for such a large investment in drivers. It's free so there no investment involved there.
Thanks for the recommendation I will look into that other software as well. But one can simulate open baffle with basta too.
And I already realized that for finetuning and so on I will need measurements, so I already ordered a mic and preamp for that.
I am currently doing the modeling mostly to be sure to understand enough to make the right choice before buing expensive drivers.
It turns out the AE are really a good fit for my project and they are costly especially including shipping to europe.
And I already realized that for finetuning and so on I will need measurements, so I already ordered a mic and preamp for that.
I am currently doing the modeling mostly to be sure to understand enough to make the right choice before buing expensive drivers.
It turns out the AE are really a good fit for my project and they are costly especially including shipping to europe.
If you're not experienced with Basta, you might not appreciate just how much it can do. For example if you select the "Box" tab, then choose the "Baffle" button, (and press the "Enable" button in the "Baffle designer" window), you get the response of the driver on a baffle. I.e. open baffle. You can model any shape and size of baffle in the "Baffle designer" window, though it's 2D only.
With passive crossovers, you can model non-standard configurations via the "Advanced network" tab. It's set up initially to model baffle step compensation, but actually you can model the whole crossover there, adding components in a list. It's arguably a bit trickier to use than a package where you draw out the network on screen, but you can always draw it out the old way, with paper and pencil, then transfer it to Basta one component at a time.
(Incidentally, you can model tweeters too, so long as you have T/S parameters for them - so domes are fine - it's just ribbons, AMTs and the like where you're stuck.)
Basta isn't really a full design suite, and if you want to build speakers that really work well, you will want to measure, then use something like VituixCad. But Basta is a brilliant modeller, pretty easy to get started with, but with a lot of advanced features too. I would recommend anyone who wants to build speakers to hold back from buying and measuring drivers until you've spent some time playing with a good modelling program like Basta.. It will teach you a lot about how driver choice, crossover design and box/baffle design are inter-dependent, and you're much more likely to end up with a successful design at the end of the day.
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You're going about it the right way. The AE drivers you mention are excellent. There are some very good SB woofers designed for open baffle too, such as the SB Bianco 15OB350. I've heard good reports of it, and it's much cheaper than the AEs, especialy in Europe.