This is a future upgrade project, for both music and home theatre. My goals are:
*105 db peaks at listening position (115 at 1m) without a little extra output in reserve if possible
*20Hz - 20k response
*room interaction is a critical factor so I would count out a conventional floorstander with monopole subwoofer - controlled directivity and polar response desirable
*I prefer a relaxed sound that is a little more forgiving than an ultra high resolution that makes typical recordings sound bad
How would you approach this challenge? What would be your design?
*105 db peaks at listening position (115 at 1m) without a little extra output in reserve if possible
*20Hz - 20k response
*room interaction is a critical factor so I would count out a conventional floorstander with monopole subwoofer - controlled directivity and polar response desirable
*I prefer a relaxed sound that is a little more forgiving than an ultra high resolution that makes typical recordings sound bad
How would you approach this challenge? What would be your design?
Some inspiration
http://www.dnaudio.com/index.htm/
http://www.legacy-audio.com/2004/whisper.html
http://ldsg.snippets.org/HORNS/unity2.html
I've been considering some kind of combination of some of the following ideas:
- large coax drivers like Adire HE12
- point source arrays with 4 mids in formation around a central tweeter in a waveguide - similar to Legacy Audio with their Helix and Whisper speakers
- dipole from 30 - 200 Hz
- open baffle midrange
- CD horn (is it possible to get this sweet sounding?)
- unity horn clone
http://www.dnaudio.com/index.htm/
http://www.legacy-audio.com/2004/whisper.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://ldsg.snippets.org/HORNS/unity2.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I've been considering some kind of combination of some of the following ideas:
- large coax drivers like Adire HE12
- point source arrays with 4 mids in formation around a central tweeter in a waveguide - similar to Legacy Audio with their Helix and Whisper speakers
- dipole from 30 - 200 Hz
- open baffle midrange
- CD horn (is it possible to get this sweet sounding?)
- unity horn clone
paulspencer said:This is a future upgrade project, for both music and home theatre. My goals are:
*105 db peaks at listening position (115 at 1m) without a little extra output in reserve if possible
*20Hz - 20k response
*room interaction is a critical factor so I would count out a conventional floorstander with monopole subwoofer - controlled directivity and polar response desirable
*I prefer a relaxed sound that is a little more forgiving than an ultra high resolution that makes typical recordings sound bad
How would you approach this challenge? What would be your design?
105dB for 20Hz is asking doe a large room.
Re: Re: Speaker design challenge: 105db 20 - 20k at listening position
Why is that?
soongsc said:
105dB for 20Hz is asking doe a large room.
Why is that?
105dB for 20Hz is asking doe a large room.
My current system achieves this easily with a pair of sealed subwoofers. In vented boxes they could approach 120db. This is the easy part. If you want more bass, you can easily add more subwoofers, and there are benefits in smoothing in-room response. However, you can't do this at the top end! It seems to me that the treble is the difficult part ...
It seems to me that the treble is the difficult part ...
With the right amount of money it is not difficult at all, just expensive.
The one below would achieve what you want with slightly more than 10 Watts.
http://www.stageaccompany.com/ribbon/ribbon.html
Regards
Charles
There was an article in Audio Critic a few years back outlining how to put a system like this together. It was based on multi-amping (of course) and JBL drivers.
Thanks Charles, have sent them an email to find out how much. I'm expecting them to be pricey ...
A nice 1" compression driver with a good lens on it will have no problem doing what you want...but...only to about 16-17khz - most will drop off after that.
Re: Re: Re: Speaker design challenge: 105db 20 - 20k at listening position
I somehow was thinking 150, sorry for the confusion.
SY said:
Why is that?
I somehow was thinking 150, sorry for the confusion.
That would be AU $928, almost double the cost of the SS ring radiator! I'd never spend that much on a tweeter, even if merely for the added stress of "what if someone damages it........"
"nice compression driver?"
hmmm ... I heard a HE10 (Adire) and the treble was awful! When it approached anything above "moderate" output, it became very harsh. At low output it was not bad. Next do a hifi dome tweeter it was very ordinary.
I would still like to know if it's possible for a CD to actually have a sweet sounding treble like that of a hifi dome tweeter ... or is it expensive to get one that will sound like that?
"nice compression driver?"
hmmm ... I heard a HE10 (Adire) and the treble was awful! When it approached anything above "moderate" output, it became very harsh. At low output it was not bad. Next do a hifi dome tweeter it was very ordinary.
I would still like to know if it's possible for a CD to actually have a sweet sounding treble like that of a hifi dome tweeter ... or is it expensive to get one that will sound like that?
did this and failed
I did something like this with two ht10 and two vented 15 B&C subs powered by two hefty bad a## poweramps.It tured out the he10 tweeter was the weak link and soon had to be replaced.I used the threaded BMS 4540nd as a replacement and had to tweak the crossover heavily. The 4549nd will keep up but works better in a larger horn than inside the beta cx10 used in the ht10. It also have a large bump in the 2-6k area and thereafter a dip and then slowly rising to 114db at 20k. In other words nice for a CD horn with a high corossover point or with a eq cirquit on the crossover.
Maybe a pa driver such as a phl to cover 200-5k?
I did something like this with two ht10 and two vented 15 B&C subs powered by two hefty bad a## poweramps.It tured out the he10 tweeter was the weak link and soon had to be replaced.I used the threaded BMS 4540nd as a replacement and had to tweak the crossover heavily. The 4549nd will keep up but works better in a larger horn than inside the beta cx10 used in the ht10. It also have a large bump in the 2-6k area and thereafter a dip and then slowly rising to 114db at 20k. In other words nice for a CD horn with a high corossover point or with a eq cirquit on the crossover.
Maybe a pa driver such as a phl to cover 200-5k?
what compression drivers have you heard?
The "nice" ones have extended top end and are very detailed/great sounding drivers....the not so nice ones have no top end(usually 10-13khz max) and details get lost or non-existant
The "nice" ones have extended top end and are very detailed/great sounding drivers....the not so nice ones have no top end(usually 10-13khz max) and details get lost or non-existant
The Seas Millennium can do 105dB/1m in full space at 2K when driven to Xmax. Add 6dB for half space (on a baffle) radiation and another 6dB for the contribution of the midrange with a 2K LR4 crossover. That gives you 117dB/1m which meets your design goal with 2dB to spare.
The Heil AMT - big ones, dipoles with the old soft diaphagms, crossover around 1.8K with 4th order electronic crossover, no problem doing 105db at 5 meters, better than very expensive compression drivers and horns and no super tweeter needed.
SY said:There was an article in Audio Critic a few years back outlining how to put a system like this together. ....
Are you saying this ? 😀
It's my dream...
Is it possible to just get the Heil tweeter anywhere? I've done a quick search and it seems to be only included as a completed speaker ...
It does look v interesting ...
It does look v interesting ...
CLS said:
Holy %^$# ! ! ! I got dibs on center chair 40 feet back ...oh and first doctors appointment for hearing test.
Dont forget about
RT-2 PRO http://swanspeakers.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=12 99 db efficiency
or the RT8II http://swanspeakers.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=18 its only 96 db efficient though.
200 dollars canadian for the PRO and $150 canadian for the giant RT8II each
RT-2 PRO http://swanspeakers.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=12 99 db efficiency
or the RT8II http://swanspeakers.com/product/htm/view.asp?id=18 its only 96 db efficient though.
200 dollars canadian for the PRO and $150 canadian for the giant RT8II each
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