hey all,
I posted a question on outdoor speakers that didnt get any responses but will post a question about cable for outdor speakers and see if I get any responses for that otherwise I will just assume outdoor audio is to hard for people to comment on.
I am looking at installing some outdoor rock speakers in my back yard and wan to run audio cable outside the cable lenghts will be approximately 40metres for the longest run and what I have read is that the short run need the cable to be the same lenght as the longet run. The cable will be buried under the ground but will be run thru conduit tubing to protect it from the weather and from being cut etc.
I have read on the web that I need to use direct burial low voltage cabling but I am not birectly burying it as mentioned it will be run in conduit.
What cable can I use to get the best outcome for the outdoor speakers, is it safe to use monster cable ?
what is the maximum run I can have for audio cable ?
Thanks for the help guys.
ikhan42
I posted a question on outdoor speakers that didnt get any responses but will post a question about cable for outdor speakers and see if I get any responses for that otherwise I will just assume outdoor audio is to hard for people to comment on.
I am looking at installing some outdoor rock speakers in my back yard and wan to run audio cable outside the cable lenghts will be approximately 40metres for the longest run and what I have read is that the short run need the cable to be the same lenght as the longet run. The cable will be buried under the ground but will be run thru conduit tubing to protect it from the weather and from being cut etc.
I have read on the web that I need to use direct burial low voltage cabling but I am not birectly burying it as mentioned it will be run in conduit.
What cable can I use to get the best outcome for the outdoor speakers, is it safe to use monster cable ?
what is the maximum run I can have for audio cable ?
Thanks for the help guys.
ikhan42
Forget monster cable. You want some cheap outdoor speaker cables? Buy a long extension cord and cut off the plugs.
Yeah forget moster cable. If you must run in conduit just use THHN or equivilent. #12 stranded will be fine.
Edit: Max Length depends on power. #12 should be good up to 100ft up to around 1000W. Beyond that just step it up to #10.
Edit: Max Length depends on power. #12 should be good up to 100ft up to around 1000W. Beyond that just step it up to #10.
Forget about 40 meter runs of speaker cable, the wire gauges required in order to get a reasonable damping factor and low attenuation are absolutely insane (and it's both a waste of money and copper). If you are dealing with hi-fi or sound reinforecement stuff then put the amplifiers near the speakers (or use/build self-powered speakers) and carry the mains supply and the signal (through a balanced line) from whatever you need instead. If you are dealing with PA ambient music or paging stuff, then use a 100V line and 100V transformers at both ends.
BWRX said:
That will be fine for "rock" speakers.
Belden also has some 10 ga. audio cable meant to go in the ground. Is the conduit for something other than the wire?
BWRX
Are you serious about the long extension cord or are you just pulling my leg ?
Eva,
I cant put the amp near the speakers the amp will be in the house protected from the weather and I am not too sure if a phonic amp would like to be put outside in the weather, and as far as the speakers are concerned no one seems to make powered outdoor speakers. The speakers I was looking at buying are from osd (outdoor speaker depot) and my search for powered garden or rock speakers cam up with nothing.
The music will be used as ambient music moct of the time bt att times will be used for hosting parties in the back yard. Hence the need to 300watt speakers and a 500watt subwoofer (which I am thinking will be a waste of money )
Thanks
ikhan42
Are you serious about the long extension cord or are you just pulling my leg ?
Eva,
I cant put the amp near the speakers the amp will be in the house protected from the weather and I am not too sure if a phonic amp would like to be put outside in the weather, and as far as the speakers are concerned no one seems to make powered outdoor speakers. The speakers I was looking at buying are from osd (outdoor speaker depot) and my search for powered garden or rock speakers cam up with nothing.
The music will be used as ambient music moct of the time bt att times will be used for hosting parties in the back yard. Hence the need to 300watt speakers and a 500watt subwoofer (which I am thinking will be a waste of money )
Thanks
ikhan42
Cal
The conduit I have run is specifically for the speaker wire and nothing else I am running 240v power in another conduit for lights etc but that will be in seperate conduit tubing.
ikhan42
The conduit I have run is specifically for the speaker wire and nothing else I am running 240v power in another conduit for lights etc but that will be in seperate conduit tubing.
ikhan42
yes cal that is the speakers I am looking at getting but I dont know anything about them except what is on the manufacturers website which ofcourse is all positive feed back LOL
ikhan42 said:
Quite serious. Most extension cords use pretty decent gauge wire and the jacketing is made to withstand the outdoors. It will work fine for your application (Cal says so too) and is it's pretty cheap to boot.
extension cord
I ill try it out once I fix my phonic amp up am willing to try anything LOL. Actually I will test it on my TOA 500 series amp.
Have anyof you guys heard of the OSD speakers I am looking at getting I am in australia and before I fork out all that money on the speakers and shipping it woould be good to know if the speakers are any good.
Thanks again guys
ikhan42
I ill try it out once I fix my phonic amp up am willing to try anything LOL. Actually I will test it on my TOA 500 series amp.
Have anyof you guys heard of the OSD speakers I am looking at getting I am in australia and before I fork out all that money on the speakers and shipping it woould be good to know if the speakers are any good.
Thanks again guys
ikhan42
If you find that the resistance of the cable is too high (as Eva suggested) and the sound is poor with just one run of extension cord, then buy another cord and tie the conductors of one cord in parallel for the + run to the speaker and do the same with another cord for the - run to the speaker. Don't forget to try this above ground before running it all through the conduit 😉
If the extension cord is 12 ga. or better, you'll do OK. If you use the Belden, you can eliminate the conduit.
IMHO the reason you didn't get a response on the original thread is that this is a DIY site. I think we all like the idea behind them but they're a little tough to DIY so many of us are not familiar.
IMHO the reason you didn't get a response on the original thread is that this is a DIY site. I think we all like the idea behind them but they're a little tough to DIY so many of us are not familiar.
If I was able to build those speakers I would do it but to get the look of rocks isnt so easy so I figured easier to buy them and anyways my wife and her friends will criticise them if I build them anyways.
the reason I posted on here is cause I figured this forum if full of audophiles and maybe there are some people on here who know people with this type of speakers.
Thanks guys you are awesome.
I am trying too learn more about audio and hope one day I will be able to put contructive posts on here.
just as a side at one stage I was thinking about using a car amp to drive the speakers so that should tell you guys how much ofa newbie I am LOL
Thanks again
ikhan42
the reason I posted on here is cause I figured this forum if full of audophiles and maybe there are some people on here who know people with this type of speakers.
Thanks guys you are awesome.
I am trying too learn more about audio and hope one day I will be able to put contructive posts on here.
just as a side at one stage I was thinking about using a car amp to drive the speakers so that should tell you guys how much ofa newbie I am LOL
Thanks again
ikhan42
Hi ikhan42
If you have loud music and parties in mind, you should strongly consider building a conventional PA setup (and storing it somewhere away from the weather when it's not in use) or hiring it when required. Those "rocks" seem to be a two-way system with a coaxial tweeter and a 8" woofer in a sealed enclosure. A pair of them would allow to achieve some loudness in a living room, but not outdoors so far. Their power rating seems completely unrealistic too, as 150W (without clipping) is probably more than enough to destroy them.
If you decide to go for the rocks, consider them an ambient-music system. To wire them you can either go for a 100V line or for the extension cord brute-force solution. Both approaches will cause a severe roll-off in the high trebble range due to series inductance. The transformers may also cause some bass roll-off depending on size and quality, as their only advantage is a considerable reduction in wire gauge requirements for long runs.
If you chose the extension cord solution, use 4mm^2 (AWG12 or AWG10) for each rock in order to keep series resistance low enough in comparison with speaker impedance (those values are for a target damping factor of 20, which means a wire having 1/20th of the R of the speaker). You can calculate the resistance of a (copper) wire as follows:
R=.017*L/S
Where:
- R are ohms
- L is lenght in meters (a 40m run has to be considered as 80m since both conductors work in series).
- S is the cross sectional area of the conductor in mm^2 (3.3 for AWG12 and 5 for AWG10)
BTW: If you parallel extension cords, don't use one for the "+" and other for the "-" as this increases inductance and produces more trebble rolloff. Use both cords for "+" and "-" instead.
If you have loud music and parties in mind, you should strongly consider building a conventional PA setup (and storing it somewhere away from the weather when it's not in use) or hiring it when required. Those "rocks" seem to be a two-way system with a coaxial tweeter and a 8" woofer in a sealed enclosure. A pair of them would allow to achieve some loudness in a living room, but not outdoors so far. Their power rating seems completely unrealistic too, as 150W (without clipping) is probably more than enough to destroy them.
If you decide to go for the rocks, consider them an ambient-music system. To wire them you can either go for a 100V line or for the extension cord brute-force solution. Both approaches will cause a severe roll-off in the high trebble range due to series inductance. The transformers may also cause some bass roll-off depending on size and quality, as their only advantage is a considerable reduction in wire gauge requirements for long runs.
If you chose the extension cord solution, use 4mm^2 (AWG12 or AWG10) for each rock in order to keep series resistance low enough in comparison with speaker impedance (those values are for a target damping factor of 20, which means a wire having 1/20th of the R of the speaker). You can calculate the resistance of a (copper) wire as follows:
R=.017*L/S
Where:
- R are ohms
- L is lenght in meters (a 40m run has to be considered as 80m since both conductors work in series).
- S is the cross sectional area of the conductor in mm^2 (3.3 for AWG12 and 5 for AWG10)
BTW: If you parallel extension cords, don't use one for the "+" and other for the "-" as this increases inductance and produces more trebble rolloff. Use both cords for "+" and "-" instead.
Eva,
Thanks for that the are that the speakes will be servicing is very small the total sizeof my backyard is 20 feet wide and 54 feet long and the outdoor table if in the centre of that rectangle so I am hoping even at 100 watts that would be more than sufficient volume for that area.
The reason I picked those speakers is that I figured they wont really un at 300 watts but should be able to do 100-150watts ut if I chose the smaller speakers then I would be lucky to get anythng out of them ie if i chose the 150 watts I would be lucky to get 50 to 75 watts.
I would be happy using conventonal wall speakers like the EV ones and bolt them to the house but my wife has made it clear to me no ugly boxes the spakers need to be hidden in the garden.
She wouldnt even except the speakes being mounted on poles in the garden bed hidden under camoflauge paint and in bushes so I am limited with what I am allowed to do unless I want a divorce ofcourse.
will think about that one LOL
Thanks for that the are that the speakes will be servicing is very small the total sizeof my backyard is 20 feet wide and 54 feet long and the outdoor table if in the centre of that rectangle so I am hoping even at 100 watts that would be more than sufficient volume for that area.
The reason I picked those speakers is that I figured they wont really un at 300 watts but should be able to do 100-150watts ut if I chose the smaller speakers then I would be lucky to get anythng out of them ie if i chose the 150 watts I would be lucky to get 50 to 75 watts.
I would be happy using conventonal wall speakers like the EV ones and bolt them to the house but my wife has made it clear to me no ugly boxes the spakers need to be hidden in the garden.
She wouldnt even except the speakes being mounted on poles in the garden bed hidden under camoflauge paint and in bushes so I am limited with what I am allowed to do unless I want a divorce ofcourse.
will think about that one LOL
Eva,
I have found some rock speakers that use 10inch drivers and are 3 way speakers they are called tic outdoor rock speakers, terra-forms® tfs14 stone speaker would these be better models for outdoor use ?
Regards
ikhan42
I have found some rock speakers that use 10inch drivers and are 3 way speakers they are called tic outdoor rock speakers, terra-forms® tfs14 stone speaker would these be better models for outdoor use ?
Regards
ikhan42
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