Really? so what is lower quantum theory?
I think you are trying to say (clumsily) that waveguide theory can be derived from Maxwell's equations. In RF you have to worry about E and H fields and use the appropriate techniques. At audio this is a low order effect and can be very safely ignored in the living room.
Matched filters are not something that has any relevance in loudspeakers. ADSL modems use similar techniques but if you get enough phase shift and added noise down 6ft of zip cord you have bigger problems to look at.
No, you're still thoroughly off track. Repeating your errors does not make them any more correct. Instead of posting half-understood search results, you might consider actually reading and understanding the literature. I take it that you still haven't bothered with Fred Davis's and Richard Greiner's papers. This was a known and solved issue more than three decades ago. The only remaining problem is marketing-driven ignorance.
Fred Davis's and Richard Greiner's papers
can read what can't be found. i found references to "papers" but not the articles themselves.
can read what can't be found. i found references to "papers" but not the articles themselves.
Let me google that for you
And if you're afraid to venture outside this forum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/193100-speaker-cable-myths-facts.html#post2648578
And if you're afraid to venture outside this forum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/everything-else/193100-speaker-cable-myths-facts.html#post2648578
But Frank they were Watt Puppy speakers one of your favorites, care to speculate what you would have thought of the sound? You have presented your opinion of fancy schmancy show systems many times.
http://www.hobbielektronika.hu/forum/getfile.php?id=109416 is a good read. It has graphs for those hard of maths 🙂
Now for those that actually would like to measure the difference, use a concrete floor that is poured over a corrugated steel deck. Use a bipolar transistor audio power amplifier that has an inductor in series with the output and observe the output with a wideband (100 MHz but 500 Mhz is better) oscilloscope. Use a square wave signal source and watch what happens when you drive a 20' cable terminated with an 8 ohm minimally inductive resistor.
Guess what, the capacitance of the floor is well coupled to the power amplifiers chassis and with some amplifiers you will see burst of oscillation that decrease as you lift the cable. Twisting it will not have any effect.
Now on longer runs if you are near a strong AM radio station you will also see some differences with the cable position.
It is all a matter of controlling the variables that you want to examine.
Yes I have had systems where some of the amplifiers feeding a loudspeaker array had issues and others of the same model and manufacture date did not.
But forgive me for interrupting the flow of this thread with actual observations.
Please feel free to go back to normal behavior.
Guess what, the capacitance of the floor is well coupled to the power amplifiers chassis and with some amplifiers you will see burst of oscillation that decrease as you lift the cable. Twisting it will not have any effect.
Now on longer runs if you are near a strong AM radio station you will also see some differences with the cable position.
It is all a matter of controlling the variables that you want to examine.
Yes I have had systems where some of the amplifiers feeding a loudspeaker array had issues and others of the same model and manufacture date did not.
But forgive me for interrupting the flow of this thread with actual observations.
Please feel free to go back to normal behavior.
The suspense is killing me, what happens?
Edit: I mean aside from one particular type of amplifier with a specific output topology in carefully manufactured circumstances, and in an auditory sense.
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So where is this common for a home listening environment? BTW do I get to play the "music is not square waves card"?
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State institutions! Modern condos and apartment buildings could also be that style of construction. Certainly hotels where these systems are often demonstrated. But not wood frame domestic structures.
It of course is common for my systems, but the bigger problem is actually using one conduit for say one hundred channels of amplifiers. The cross talk can become an issue that is not well known.
No music is not square waves but using them to show the issue is legit. Music may clip the amplifier where the test signal does not.
No idea, 😉 ... what matters is that some "bizarre" external aspect to the system proper is affecting the sound, whatever the quality of the latter actually is!
IME, the closer one gets to optimum sound the more one has to worry about these things - one can fluke having all the elements engineered well enough so this doesn't happen, but there is no consistent strategy that I've come across that helps one out.
"Objectivist" engineering dulls, deadens the sound to the point where these aspects probably won't register - but then these systems haven't much of a hope of getting into the ballpark of generating convincing sound ...
![Monty_Python_reuni_2741057k[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/436/436046-37016b8cda1a02d7b791bdc8d63f7a9b.jpg?hash=NwFrjNoaAt)
Davy, the first thing I saw on that pic is the phrase "Attached Thumbnails" above our good chap - most appropriate ...
Ooh, I can't resist rising to the bait here in face of the relentless onslaught of the "Wire is Wire" and "Amps are Amps" and "Components are Components" camp!
THESE PEOPLE say that transmission line mathematics, scattering matrix methods and Fast Fourier Transform and information theory are just rubbish. Or maybe I am just making it all up to show off. It's the science! 🙄
Some of us, from more mathematically informed backgrounds, have actually worked out something in this thread. Get the spacing of the cables down, keep the resistance low. I could add that it does no harm to keep impedance phase angles low if you want to keep a feedback amplifier happy. And keep speaker impedance roughly matched and resistive, which is about the same thing.
This is the correct technique. I'll leave the rest of you monkeys to continue botching it while pretending to be authorities. 😀
One of my efforts. Exemplary impedance, IMO. Uses those sweet sounding Zobels. Ought to sound good with anything.
THESE PEOPLE say that transmission line mathematics, scattering matrix methods and Fast Fourier Transform and information theory are just rubbish. Or maybe I am just making it all up to show off. It's the science! 🙄
Some of us, from more mathematically informed backgrounds, have actually worked out something in this thread. Get the spacing of the cables down, keep the resistance low. I could add that it does no harm to keep impedance phase angles low if you want to keep a feedback amplifier happy. And keep speaker impedance roughly matched and resistive, which is about the same thing.
This is the correct technique. I'll leave the rest of you monkeys to continue botching it while pretending to be authorities. 😀
One of my efforts. Exemplary impedance, IMO. Uses those sweet sounding Zobels. Ought to sound good with anything.
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You have ? I must have dozed off. Great thing about this forum is that one can't fool most of the people even some of the time on technical matters.
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