Very easy to install, no tech needed.
Replaced the 2006 628's, which replaced the cheap $1 stock opamps installed by cayin, early 2000/build.
So after some nearly 20 yrs, we have access to these new high tech digital opamps.
The fq's are given finer shaping. these opamps allow higher gain with out the distortion. The 628's distorted rather quickly at higher gain.
There is still some distortion, in the wteet, but that is comming from the preamp.
These opamps have much kore potential , once i swap out the cheap caps in the cayin 17 Mark1, purchased 2003.
Once the new Mundorf caps go in, these opamsp will really sing gorgeous.
YouTube
Replaced the 2006 628's, which replaced the cheap $1 stock opamps installed by cayin, early 2000/build.
So after some nearly 20 yrs, we have access to these new high tech digital opamps.
The fq's are given finer shaping. these opamps allow higher gain with out the distortion. The 628's distorted rather quickly at higher gain.
There is still some distortion, in the wteet, but that is comming from the preamp.
These opamps have much kore potential , once i swap out the cheap caps in the cayin 17 Mark1, purchased 2003.
Once the new Mundorf caps go in, these opamsp will really sing gorgeous.
YouTube
Yes the stock ops may have been the 604.
The 628's did result in higher resoltion and these Discrete also madea nice impronement in fq resolution.
Now sure what you mean by the term *linearity*. ,,,let me look it up,,be right back,,,,
Guess i would have to read through this thread.
I have 4 TESLA's E88's comming tomorrow
I plan to hear those in the 6922 section...
I tried 4 E80cc's in the 6922 section, and no sound was produced,,i think the Cayin will only accept 6922 style tubes = 7DJ8, 6DJ8, PCC88, E88, and others, But not a E80CC tube.
I have all new Mundorf caps, Silver/Gold Oil sitting, waiting for my tech guy to install.
about 20 caps.
the non-linearity of tubes
The 628's did result in higher resoltion and these Discrete also madea nice impronement in fq resolution.
Now sure what you mean by the term *linearity*. ,,,let me look it up,,be right back,,,,
Guess i would have to read through this thread.
I have 4 TESLA's E88's comming tomorrow
I plan to hear those in the 6922 section...
I tried 4 E80cc's in the 6922 section, and no sound was produced,,i think the Cayin will only accept 6922 style tubes = 7DJ8, 6DJ8, PCC88, E88, and others, But not a E80CC tube.
I have all new Mundorf caps, Silver/Gold Oil sitting, waiting for my tech guy to install.
about 20 caps.
the non-linearity of tubes
The E80CC is a pin for pin replacement. But draws twice the heater current. Plus is a 12.6 volt heater and 6922 family is 6.3 volt. May not have workEd because it under powered the heater.
Not sure on the discrete opamps. Like was mentioned the OPA2604 is solid. Have used in many digital players.
Replaced the NJR5532 in an interface with OPA2604. Ran some tests and saw slightly higher distortion. But spectrum was different. H2 was highest. With 5532 H3 was highest in value.
SNR was better with 5532. Just more odd order. FET input vs BJT input.
Not sure on the discrete opamps. Like was mentioned the OPA2604 is solid. Have used in many digital players.
Replaced the NJR5532 in an interface with OPA2604. Ran some tests and saw slightly higher distortion. But spectrum was different. H2 was highest. With 5532 H3 was highest in value.
SNR was better with 5532. Just more odd order. FET input vs BJT input.
This is not engineering or science you are practicing, you are just wasting money and fooling yourself into thinking you hear an improvement. Do some reading about the influence on the human brain and our hearing. Double blind testing sorts out the snakeoil and mirrors from solid engineering principles.
I would A/B the ops , once again,,but 2 pins broke off on eof the 626's.
And the Discrete are snug in, don't wish to risk slanting the pinson the Saprks as i did previous to show on a vid how easy they are to take out and place back in. I will order another 628, as they go for a few $.s .
Plus I rolled out the KT90's just after emplying the Discrete,s,,so to be fair in all this, i need to order a 628, listen with KT90's then with KT88's.
Again, it is my opinion the ops are being held back from singing even more graceful than at present due to cheap 2 cent caps in the cayin cd player.
I have about 20 Mundorf caps going in soon, and these new silver oil caps will allow the ops to function at their full capacity.
This is not snakeoil hocus-pocus..I leave that to other fantasy driven audiophiles.
I practice real solid modifications.
Here is yet another solid <Beliveable/credible> testimony on Sparksolab's new high tech Discrete opamps.
I need more testing time. But my initial impressions are it is a real solid modification in allow fq's to be voiced with higher true fidelity resolution.
Note the unbiased reviewers descrips <<impressive/outsanding/significant/blown away>>
There is no way the 628 can pack the same punch as the Discretes. Just look at the chip itself.
The 628 is 20 yr old technology and sell for $2.
A 2 $ chip is not going to voice like a $50 chip.
Repeating, I need to recap my cd player, then the Discretes will really open up.
YouTube
And the Discrete are snug in, don't wish to risk slanting the pinson the Saprks as i did previous to show on a vid how easy they are to take out and place back in. I will order another 628, as they go for a few $.s .
Plus I rolled out the KT90's just after emplying the Discrete,s,,so to be fair in all this, i need to order a 628, listen with KT90's then with KT88's.
Again, it is my opinion the ops are being held back from singing even more graceful than at present due to cheap 2 cent caps in the cayin cd player.
I have about 20 Mundorf caps going in soon, and these new silver oil caps will allow the ops to function at their full capacity.
This is not snakeoil hocus-pocus..I leave that to other fantasy driven audiophiles.
I practice real solid modifications.
Here is yet another solid <Beliveable/credible> testimony on Sparksolab's new high tech Discrete opamps.
I need more testing time. But my initial impressions are it is a real solid modification in allow fq's to be voiced with higher true fidelity resolution.
Note the unbiased reviewers descrips <<impressive/outsanding/significant/blown away>>
There is no way the 628 can pack the same punch as the Discretes. Just look at the chip itself.
The 628 is 20 yr old technology and sell for $2.
A 2 $ chip is not going to voice like a $50 chip.
Repeating, I need to recap my cd player, then the Discretes will really open up.
YouTube
opa627. 20 yr old technology which cayin employed way back in 2002 in this 17 cd player Mark1,,,which chips they use in their new flagship mark 2 , i have no idea,,most likelya $2 chip,,as if they employed 6 Discretes,,the cost factor would jump 20%. $1200 > $1400++ , sales would drop significantly.
Electronic makers use <low cost parts> as a svaings factor,,better for me, as i'd prefer to buy my own new high quality high fidelity parts.
The old ops are dated, dinosaurs.
The <New Kids on the block> the Discretes are true high fidelity.
The goal we are all after here, yes?
Electronic makers use <low cost parts> as a svaings factor,,better for me, as i'd prefer to buy my own new high quality high fidelity parts.
The old ops are dated, dinosaurs.
The <New Kids on the block> the Discretes are true high fidelity.
The goal we are all after here, yes?
Attachments
Those <<real caps>> are actually fake cheap paper caps,,which cayin paid 2 cents for..
It is these caps which are crippling the Discretes from singing likea tenor and a soprano
As I say, had cayin installed Mundorf Silver Gold Oil Supremes cost factor would 3X's, maybe 4X's the cost,,,= better for me.
Here is a pic of a true high fidelity<,super chip>> Discrete opamp.
You decide.
I mean if you look at a Yugo auto and thena Mercedes 400 SUV, its obvious which is the high craftsmanship and perf.
same in chips.
Sparkos Labs DIP8 Discrete Opamps – DIY Recording Equipment
It is these caps which are crippling the Discretes from singing likea tenor and a soprano
As I say, had cayin installed Mundorf Silver Gold Oil Supremes cost factor would 3X's, maybe 4X's the cost,,,= better for me.
Here is a pic of a true high fidelity<,super chip>> Discrete opamp.
You decide.
I mean if you look at a Yugo auto and thena Mercedes 400 SUV, its obvious which is the high craftsmanship and perf.
same in chips.
Sparkos Labs DIP8 Discrete Opamps – DIY Recording Equipment
Here I found a link toa DIYer who understtod the stock real caps from cayin are holding back the unit.
He employs Audyx,,not sure what cap this is. has copper as filament I have Mundorf Silver/Gold Oil.
I plan to also take out all the caps in the Cayin SC6 preamp when it arrives, , 1st a quick 1 day test,,then off she goes to have all new M's soldered in.
Most likely Silver/Gold Oil, not the more costly Supremes.
A $2 cap will sound like a <<2$ cap>>> a $2 op,,will sound like a <<2$op>>>
this is not snakeoil, its real science.
Cayin VP-100i - Quicksu Modjitsu - Schematics and Lids Lifted - StereoNET
He employs Audyx,,not sure what cap this is. has copper as filament I have Mundorf Silver/Gold Oil.
I plan to also take out all the caps in the Cayin SC6 preamp when it arrives, , 1st a quick 1 day test,,then off she goes to have all new M's soldered in.
Most likely Silver/Gold Oil, not the more costly Supremes.
A $2 cap will sound like a <<2$ cap>>> a $2 op,,will sound like a <<2$op>>>
this is not snakeoil, its real science.
Cayin VP-100i - Quicksu Modjitsu - Schematics and Lids Lifted - StereoNET
so you think, with testing equipment showing the 2 opamps, with very similar test results, its not possible one will be superior t the other, by any isgnificant degree.
I've seen such YT vids wherea guy is testing 2 cent chinese caps vs higher end caps, and he can not find testing to be any graeter with the more expensive caps = thus are high end caps *snakeoilish*.
Testing equipment can only act in units and degrees, but not in the acutal elusive <,High Fidelity>
A part , say a opamp, can be tested solo and arrive at specs. But it in the total equation, each part will react dif in the whole High Fidelity unit.
IOW, each mod i have planned out, new silver wires, new pure copper termianls, etc etc etc,,all together will act ina unison.
w/o the Sparksolab high fidelity ops,,,the whole will not allow tenors and sopranos to be heard in their true colors and hues.
Each mod will support the other mods.
Its almost like a football team. To win the collegiate championship, LSU has to prove each player is National Champion qualification.
Same in all things audio.
To achieve Class A sound system, that is true High Fidelity, all main parts need be Class A.
OPA627 is class B/C.
Discrete ops are pure Class A.
In fact I believe in the descrip it says just that, <<Class A module>>>
Yet we can agree, budget can be a issue, The nw high tech voltage regulators , the cayin needs about 12+..that mod is way out my budget. But i will have my tech guy take a look, and see where we can employ maybe 4 of these V reg's in the most critical sections.
I've seen such YT vids wherea guy is testing 2 cent chinese caps vs higher end caps, and he can not find testing to be any graeter with the more expensive caps = thus are high end caps *snakeoilish*.
Testing equipment can only act in units and degrees, but not in the acutal elusive <,High Fidelity>
A part , say a opamp, can be tested solo and arrive at specs. But it in the total equation, each part will react dif in the whole High Fidelity unit.
IOW, each mod i have planned out, new silver wires, new pure copper termianls, etc etc etc,,all together will act ina unison.
w/o the Sparksolab high fidelity ops,,,the whole will not allow tenors and sopranos to be heard in their true colors and hues.
Each mod will support the other mods.
Its almost like a football team. To win the collegiate championship, LSU has to prove each player is National Champion qualification.
Same in all things audio.
To achieve Class A sound system, that is true High Fidelity, all main parts need be Class A.
OPA627 is class B/C.
Discrete ops are pure Class A.
In fact I believe in the descrip it says just that, <<Class A module>>>
Yet we can agree, budget can be a issue, The nw high tech voltage regulators , the cayin needs about 12+..that mod is way out my budget. But i will have my tech guy take a look, and see where we can employ maybe 4 of these V reg's in the most critical sections.
That's correct ... any two amplifers that measure the same will sound the same. It's just basic science. A==A ... it's not complex.
A proper examination of what you are doing is far more rooted in psychology than electronics or science.
Oh no, it surely isn't. How could someone rationally thinking ever come to suspect this? It is all based on pure science, what else?
With due respect, swapping an 6922 for an E80CC mercilessly shows the level of your basic understanding and your relationship to real facts.
Best regards!
OK , well it is part fantasy,,,consider other audiophiles buying very expensive cables/interconects,,, add both speaker/inters together,,adds up to more than their entire system,,I just don't get it. .
I'm not that fanatical, nor willing drink snakeoil and say it tastes good.
I've heard manya speaker systems over the past 40 yrs,,and most were <<palid,cooghing,chocking,putrid coloring,,chambers of echos...
Could have been the amps adding to the unlistenable spound, fatigue level very high,,Wjhat I need to find out is where is the complete breakup in the Millenium comming from at higher gain levels..Not that i listen at high (40% on the vol knob) levels,,I like more background muisc,, = lower vol = almost no distortion,,But anyway,,there is horrible breakup in the Millenium,, This tweet is now 17 yrs old, never absued,
However,,do you guys think i should send it off to Madisound to have it trsted. If found faulty, can they repair it, or buy another pait?
Or is this breakup comming from the Lite LS9 preamp?
hard to say, but very possible, as the other 2 chinese tube pres were just aweful on any resolution of fq's, both flat as a pancake.
I am sticking by my impressions of the Discrete's.
As I say, testing a part all by itself, only tells part of the story, Besides, there is no way to test every spec on the Discrete , read the results against the OPA627 and determine how each will sound ina complete system, that is the cayin will respond dif to each chip,
This super high tech chip can not sing its fidelity as the cheap 2 cent Real caps are holding the Discrete back from performance.
IAt the end of this vid, Young makes the suggestion, to save your money on buying expenisve Mundorf Supreme caps, as his test results show near same capitance to voice muisc.
You see, I am of the 2nd camp, test results on screens are one thing,,but performaing ina entire stereo system is QUITE another.
As I say, I have about 20 M caps to go in my cayin cd 17, and will post a unbiased, fair comment on before and after.
Here is what i am getting at.
<<The Discrete might be held back , due to the cheap Real caps, which sell for pennies>>
And so although i change the caps to M's, still with the old dated OPA627 in the unit, now the M's will be held back...each mod supports the other.
I believe these testing equipment is more about how functioning a part is,,but not as to voice high fidelity.
The nuances, colors, purity(=Fidelity) can not be seen on a graph screen., these elusive quailites has to be heard by a quailifed audiophile.
In late janurary i will drive up to my tech guy in baton Rouge and have him install all the caps...His philosophy is that a cap is a cap is a cap, if it works , why spend the money.
If you look at the pic above Real cap vs Audyx pure copper cap, its easy to see which will outperform the other.
YouTube
I'm not that fanatical, nor willing drink snakeoil and say it tastes good.
I've heard manya speaker systems over the past 40 yrs,,and most were <<palid,cooghing,chocking,putrid coloring,,chambers of echos...
Could have been the amps adding to the unlistenable spound, fatigue level very high,,Wjhat I need to find out is where is the complete breakup in the Millenium comming from at higher gain levels..Not that i listen at high (40% on the vol knob) levels,,I like more background muisc,, = lower vol = almost no distortion,,But anyway,,there is horrible breakup in the Millenium,, This tweet is now 17 yrs old, never absued,
However,,do you guys think i should send it off to Madisound to have it trsted. If found faulty, can they repair it, or buy another pait?
Or is this breakup comming from the Lite LS9 preamp?
hard to say, but very possible, as the other 2 chinese tube pres were just aweful on any resolution of fq's, both flat as a pancake.
I am sticking by my impressions of the Discrete's.
As I say, testing a part all by itself, only tells part of the story, Besides, there is no way to test every spec on the Discrete , read the results against the OPA627 and determine how each will sound ina complete system, that is the cayin will respond dif to each chip,
This super high tech chip can not sing its fidelity as the cheap 2 cent Real caps are holding the Discrete back from performance.
IAt the end of this vid, Young makes the suggestion, to save your money on buying expenisve Mundorf Supreme caps, as his test results show near same capitance to voice muisc.
You see, I am of the 2nd camp, test results on screens are one thing,,but performaing ina entire stereo system is QUITE another.
As I say, I have about 20 M caps to go in my cayin cd 17, and will post a unbiased, fair comment on before and after.
Here is what i am getting at.
<<The Discrete might be held back , due to the cheap Real caps, which sell for pennies>>
And so although i change the caps to M's, still with the old dated OPA627 in the unit, now the M's will be held back...each mod supports the other.
I believe these testing equipment is more about how functioning a part is,,but not as to voice high fidelity.
The nuances, colors, purity(=Fidelity) can not be seen on a graph screen., these elusive quailites has to be heard by a quailifed audiophile.
In late janurary i will drive up to my tech guy in baton Rouge and have him install all the caps...His philosophy is that a cap is a cap is a cap, if it works , why spend the money.
If you look at the pic above Real cap vs Audyx pure copper cap, its easy to see which will outperform the other.
YouTube
more discrete opamps
I prefer Orange discrete opamps. Only available as duals.
I tried also: OPA SUN, OPA EARTH, Sonic Imagery Labs 994Enh-Ticha DUAL Discrete OpAmp, Sparkos, some HDAMs from HongKong etc.
Orange Dual Discrete OP-Amp – Orange Amps
I prefer Orange discrete opamps. Only available as duals.
I tried also: OPA SUN, OPA EARTH, Sonic Imagery Labs 994Enh-Ticha DUAL Discrete OpAmp, Sparkos, some HDAMs from HongKong etc.
Orange Dual Discrete OP-Amp – Orange Amps
well i really should shut down all testing for the moment, as while swaping out the KT90;s, i noted 1 center plastic pin broke off,, , I wanted only to hear the KT88's fora few minutes, to see which power tube i perfered,,, I was running 88's w/o proper biasing.
My tech guy just biased for KT90;s.
I don;'t think any harm done, But i will wait for the KT90 to arrive so i can go back to testing.
I think I prefer the chinese KT88's over the EH KT90's. ,,not sure yet.
That needs futher comparison.
Just order some Discrete ops from HK, lets see how they compare to Sparksolab's Discrete.
My guess it will be like rolling a Amperex NOS tube vs a Telefunken super high priced tube = miniscule dif.
I just do not see justifying paying over $100 per pre amp tube.
This <<Holy Grail>> stuff, i ain;'t buying into.
anyway, ck out the comment on the YT link where radio Jet is suggesting to Young, that his tests are not valid, as the Mundorf's need <<break in time>>>
This idea of <<break in>>> is the
BIGGEST
SNAKEOIL
sales pitch in this business
A speaker will sound EXACTLY like it did out the box, as in 50 yrs from now,,,provided the drivers are all in tack in 50.
What we need to keep in mind in all this, is that testing on electronic gadgits is only part of the equation.
How each part tested works ina SYNGERISTIC system is more important.
taht is the Sparks discretes will only open their voice to full potential , once the <,Real>> caps are dumped for really real caps = The Mundorfs.
My guess when i crack open the Real cap i will find nothing more than paper foil whatever.
The Discretes have to pass through that garbage.
After completeing all the mods in the Cayin late 2020, the expense will be more than I paid for the unit = $1100...anyway,,i am hearinga hum in the right channel,,maybe one of the KT88's has a short.........
My tech guy just biased for KT90;s.
I don;'t think any harm done, But i will wait for the KT90 to arrive so i can go back to testing.
I think I prefer the chinese KT88's over the EH KT90's. ,,not sure yet.
That needs futher comparison.
Just order some Discrete ops from HK, lets see how they compare to Sparksolab's Discrete.
My guess it will be like rolling a Amperex NOS tube vs a Telefunken super high priced tube = miniscule dif.
I just do not see justifying paying over $100 per pre amp tube.
This <<Holy Grail>> stuff, i ain;'t buying into.
anyway, ck out the comment on the YT link where radio Jet is suggesting to Young, that his tests are not valid, as the Mundorf's need <<break in time>>>
This idea of <<break in>>> is the
BIGGEST
SNAKEOIL
sales pitch in this business
A speaker will sound EXACTLY like it did out the box, as in 50 yrs from now,,,provided the drivers are all in tack in 50.
What we need to keep in mind in all this, is that testing on electronic gadgits is only part of the equation.
How each part tested works ina SYNGERISTIC system is more important.
taht is the Sparks discretes will only open their voice to full potential , once the <,Real>> caps are dumped for really real caps = The Mundorfs.
My guess when i crack open the Real cap i will find nothing more than paper foil whatever.
The Discretes have to pass through that garbage.
After completeing all the mods in the Cayin late 2020, the expense will be more than I paid for the unit = $1100...anyway,,i am hearinga hum in the right channel,,maybe one of the KT88's has a short.........
The ironic thing is that a speaker driver is the ONLY thing in an audio system that changes its characteristics with time.
That is because it is a mechanical system, there are springs and parts that expand and contract with use. Limited elasticity means that especially in the beginning things like Q and Fc will change a bit with time.
Many years ago, people who did not understand this and/or saw a way to quick fame and riches, started to talk about breaking in cables, capacitors, transistors, what have you. A true fashion industry, audio is!
Jan
That is because it is a mechanical system, there are springs and parts that expand and contract with use. Limited elasticity means that especially in the beginning things like Q and Fc will change a bit with time.
Many years ago, people who did not understand this and/or saw a way to quick fame and riches, started to talk about breaking in cables, capacitors, transistors, what have you. A true fashion industry, audio is!
Jan
Kind of like buying a Rolex ... even when you know full well that $12.00 timex is more accurate.
Let me ask you. The breakup in the tweet at 40% gain on the preamp vol, is this distortuion from the preamps capactity or is it the Thor Millenium's distortion...Do tweets need upgrades after some 16 yrs old (useage is only 6 yrs, , as past 10 yrs, i've been w/o a stereo setup, speakers sat unused.
So can these Millenium's be shiped off to madisound for testing/repaired,,,or purchase a new pair?
Or wait fora new preamp, then listen to the Millenium and if breakup remains, then we know its the Millenium's need repair/replaced.
they are expensive so i want to make sure of the right decision.
Or then again i plan to get a SB Acoustic 2.5 way kit,,maybe best to put that cash into the SB setup/2020 project and go back to the Seas's new tweets/new xovers in 2021. .
Not sure what to do.
Now you see here is where testing equpiment has its place, in finding out where the breakup is comming from.
Oh yes the cable breakin,,,,lol, how could folks drink that snakeoil and not taste how aweful it was...
So can these Millenium's be shiped off to madisound for testing/repaired,,,or purchase a new pair?
Or wait fora new preamp, then listen to the Millenium and if breakup remains, then we know its the Millenium's need repair/replaced.
they are expensive so i want to make sure of the right decision.
Or then again i plan to get a SB Acoustic 2.5 way kit,,maybe best to put that cash into the SB setup/2020 project and go back to the Seas's new tweets/new xovers in 2021. .
Not sure what to do.
Now you see here is where testing equpiment has its place, in finding out where the breakup is comming from.
Oh yes the cable breakin,,,,lol, how could folks drink that snakeoil and not taste how aweful it was...
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