"When are they going to understand that a 20 years old spaceshuttle just isn't reliable,if any at all,for this kind of mission?"
I have to comment on this too. There were plans to retire Columbia in 2001, not because she was too old or unworthy, in fact that was just the opposite, it was still in perfect shape. Those retirement plans were because of the fact that Columbia was so historical...being the first of its kind to fly into space and come back this way. Those plans however were scrapped and the Columbia was completely overhauled and fitted with a completely new "glass" cockpit and all new computer and control system. Even the newest style of main engine is way beefed up past the original ones and with 30% more of the welded joints eliminated in it.
With the 100 rated flights per airframe given the shuttles, they are supposed to keep flying into the late 2020's. It will easily be that long before any new shuttle system is up and running. It takes a long time to go from drawing board to working unit on something like this. Personally I hope they build a relacement shuttle for Columbia like they did for Challenger......
Mark
I have to comment on this too. There were plans to retire Columbia in 2001, not because she was too old or unworthy, in fact that was just the opposite, it was still in perfect shape. Those retirement plans were because of the fact that Columbia was so historical...being the first of its kind to fly into space and come back this way. Those plans however were scrapped and the Columbia was completely overhauled and fitted with a completely new "glass" cockpit and all new computer and control system. Even the newest style of main engine is way beefed up past the original ones and with 30% more of the welded joints eliminated in it.
With the 100 rated flights per airframe given the shuttles, they are supposed to keep flying into the late 2020's. It will easily be that long before any new shuttle system is up and running. It takes a long time to go from drawing board to working unit on something like this. Personally I hope they build a relacement shuttle for Columbia like they did for Challenger......
Mark
The military and space comunity works with a totally different set of values than we do. When they design something, it takes up to 10 years before there is a deliverable, and then they use technology that has proven itself already for 10 years. So when it comes out it uses technology that is 20 years old. This may seems idiot for us who are used to install the latest OS, cpu etc whenever it becomes available. But actually it is good design practise. It means they have something that is totally understood.
It also means Nasa (and other companies) has to go around scrounging for Pentium 1's, old Simm memory chips and other obsolete material because they have to keep things running. Not only the spacecraft itself but also all sorts of flightcontrol equipment.
Greetings,
Jarno.
Greetings,
Jarno.
Jarno,
There is alot more of that stuff around, and still in production than you think. For instance the DTS 6D Digital Theatre processor uses a 486 DX-2 motherboard in it. Those DTS Processors are still in daily production and lots are sold. The larger Strand Lighting Boards also utilize Pentium 1's, and some 2's in them. Not much processing power used in either case.
As far as the Shuttles are concerned you will probably find that the flight computers are alot more modern than that, and that they have been replaced and upgraded over the last few years with all new flight computers and glass cockpits, not unlike that on the Boeing triple seven, or the latest Airbus. Columbia underwent this retrofit about 2 years ago. You would also find that the shuttle has mainly custom made, industrial style processors inside it anyway, the industrial stuff is always available and actually quite common. Ever stop and consider how many 8080 cpu's are sold by Zilog every day.....the fact is...hundreds.
BTW: The forst shuttles used magnetic core memory!! Its also VERY reliable, but power hungry.
Mark
There is alot more of that stuff around, and still in production than you think. For instance the DTS 6D Digital Theatre processor uses a 486 DX-2 motherboard in it. Those DTS Processors are still in daily production and lots are sold. The larger Strand Lighting Boards also utilize Pentium 1's, and some 2's in them. Not much processing power used in either case.
As far as the Shuttles are concerned you will probably find that the flight computers are alot more modern than that, and that they have been replaced and upgraded over the last few years with all new flight computers and glass cockpits, not unlike that on the Boeing triple seven, or the latest Airbus. Columbia underwent this retrofit about 2 years ago. You would also find that the shuttle has mainly custom made, industrial style processors inside it anyway, the industrial stuff is always available and actually quite common. Ever stop and consider how many 8080 cpu's are sold by Zilog every day.....the fact is...hundreds.
BTW: The forst shuttles used magnetic core memory!! Its also VERY reliable, but power hungry.
Mark
NASA - Needs Another Seven Astronauts.....
First off - I applaud all those involved in the space program, and the advances for mankind that all this research generates.
Second - The space shuttle is a relatively new technology really, and there are all sorts of serious technological and logistical problems involved in space flight - I find it almost a wonder that it is possible at all.
Thirdly - All the astronauts involved very clearly know the risks that they are taking in their pioneering efforts, and their families too - it is not as though they are all totally unprepared for such an eventuality.
Space flight will always be risky,and I feel that we all ought to be very gratefull to these now martyrs, and all those who preceded them, and all those in the future.
I also agree with Graham that the media can and often does, very badly skew the importance and relativity of reporting events.
The report of the then treasurerer's flat cat is a glaring example.
At a personal level, a young emerging lady friend of a good friend of mine is now in a coma, and fighting for her life in intensive care, and at this time her future health and welfare is an unknown.
She was with a friend driving home from a day at the beach, and an irresponsible, unlicensed and underage ******** in a stolen car driving in the wrong direction down a freeway was the direct cause.
Returning home and minding their own business VS knowingly accepting extreme risks - I know which one causes me the greater sense of tragedy.
Eric / - My heart goes out to all involved and affected.
First off - I applaud all those involved in the space program, and the advances for mankind that all this research generates.
Second - The space shuttle is a relatively new technology really, and there are all sorts of serious technological and logistical problems involved in space flight - I find it almost a wonder that it is possible at all.
Thirdly - All the astronauts involved very clearly know the risks that they are taking in their pioneering efforts, and their families too - it is not as though they are all totally unprepared for such an eventuality.
Space flight will always be risky,and I feel that we all ought to be very gratefull to these now martyrs, and all those who preceded them, and all those in the future.
I also agree with Graham that the media can and often does, very badly skew the importance and relativity of reporting events.
The report of the then treasurerer's flat cat is a glaring example.
At a personal level, a young emerging lady friend of a good friend of mine is now in a coma, and fighting for her life in intensive care, and at this time her future health and welfare is an unknown.
She was with a friend driving home from a day at the beach, and an irresponsible, unlicensed and underage ******** in a stolen car driving in the wrong direction down a freeway was the direct cause.
Returning home and minding their own business VS knowingly accepting extreme risks - I know which one causes me the greater sense of tragedy.
Eric / - My heart goes out to all involved and affected.
One of my close friends a physics geek in Arizona received news that she had been accepted into NASA's "teachers in space" program only last week.
As an ex military flier her comment to me on Saturday are very telling. "Military and Space flights are guaranteed "one-way, return ticket is a bonus! Any way it comes out, it's still the ride of a lifetime."
Cyclotronguy
As an ex military flier her comment to me on Saturday are very telling. "Military and Space flights are guaranteed "one-way, return ticket is a bonus! Any way it comes out, it's still the ride of a lifetime."
Cyclotronguy
I agree with Christer about the fact that all (human) life is equal in importance..
But there is something about any space accident or victory that brings it close to home... It just hits you..has an impact... People die in accidents everyday..sure...but I don't know why things like this somehow seem very different.
I guess that is just human?
But there is something about any space accident or victory that brings it close to home... It just hits you..has an impact... People die in accidents everyday..sure...but I don't know why things like this somehow seem very different.
I guess that is just human?
- Status
- Not open for further replies.