Remember that there are two factors influencing the (possible) differences in the sound of components such as capacitors. They are electrical and mechanical.
We can't do much about the electrical factor but has anyone experimented with the mechanical? eg adding mass.
I have just removed 8 capacitors from the PSU for my GC buffer circuit.
The PSU had two stages of regulation using LM317/337 regs and I had read somewhere about adding some extra 220 uF caps to lower the noise from the regulators. Unfortunately, they only added some distortion and now I am wondering if this was because I used some very cheap caps that have been in my parts box for five or six years!
Still on the subject of 'do caps make a difference to the sound', it is always worth remembering that
2 + 3 +11 +1 +6 = 23 as does 5 + 10 + 2 + 6!
In other words, there are many combinations of numbers that arrive at the same total.
We can't do much about the electrical factor but has anyone experimented with the mechanical? eg adding mass.
I have just removed 8 capacitors from the PSU for my GC buffer circuit.
The PSU had two stages of regulation using LM317/337 regs and I had read somewhere about adding some extra 220 uF caps to lower the noise from the regulators. Unfortunately, they only added some distortion and now I am wondering if this was because I used some very cheap caps that have been in my parts box for five or six years!
Still on the subject of 'do caps make a difference to the sound', it is always worth remembering that
2 + 3 +11 +1 +6 = 23 as does 5 + 10 + 2 + 6!
In other words, there are many combinations of numbers that arrive at the same total.
Large amounts (relatively) of capacitance on 317
regulators may cause them to be unstable.
Slightly smaller amounts on the adj pin will improve
noise rejection; you'll need to see the application
notes.
regulators may cause them to be unstable.
Slightly smaller amounts on the adj pin will improve
noise rejection; you'll need to see the application
notes.
Thanks Damon,
I added the 220 uFs after reading a review of regulator circuits (on TNT if I remember correctly).
I may do some more experimenting with 'fresher' caps of different values.
I added the 220 uFs after reading a review of regulator circuits (on TNT if I remember correctly).
I may do some more experimenting with 'fresher' caps of different values.
There's another very good option: Ansar capacitors.
http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.co.uk/Cricklewood/customer/home.php?cat=155
They seem to be sold just by Cricklewood, but they come in up to 80uF and are 400v. For higher voltages (?) you can always do a series.
Kuei Yang Wang is probably listening and can comment about them.
Carlos
http://www.cricklewoodelectronics.co.uk/Cricklewood/customer/home.php?cat=155
They seem to be sold just by Cricklewood, but they come in up to 80uF and are 400v. For higher voltages (?) you can always do a series.
Kuei Yang Wang is probably listening and can comment about them.
Carlos
Nuuk said:
No.
Just because I like and I use them.😀
Seams the right value for me, not too much, not too little.
100uf it is.
Anyway, it's the most common value I see on commercial products after an LM317/337.
I know this doesn't mean anything but...
Nuuk, just try it and tell us, it seams you have there a particularly sensitive circuit to test this, so...😉
Just for you Carlos, I will try the 100 uFs but you will have to wait until I have a big enough order as Farnell now have a minimum order of 20UKP
BTW Congratulations to Porto last night - now hand over your manager please
Nuuk said:
BTW Congratulations to Porto last night - now hand over your manager please
😀 Well... life goes on, you pay well, you have the best.😉
The french people may not be happy now.
Porto eliminated 3 french teams from the champions league this year.😱
Viva o Benfica !!!😀
Christer said:
I'm not an engineer, thanks.
Something against that?😕
Engineers measure and get satisfied when it measures right.
I only get satisfied when it sounds good to me.
Something against that?🙄
If you don't have anything useful to say, shut up.
Or else, what's the ideal capacitance after an LM317/337 regulator?
And why?
Tell us, Mr. Engineer.
Carlos,
it was intended as a joke about engineering not about you.
Sorry, if you took it the wrong way.
it was intended as a joke about engineering not about you.
Sorry, if you took it the wrong way.
Touchy, aren't we? 100uF may well work in your particular system but to insist that it's the one and only value is absolutely ludicrous. The capacitor type will certainly have stronger audible effect than the value alone.
fdegrove said:
Well, there are a couple of ways of avoiding electrolytics feeding output transistors directly.
1) Capacitance multiplier
2) Switching power supply
I've heard good things about CMs although I haven't tried them. There are persistent rumours that SPSs have exceptional characteristics - the PanasonicXR45 uses one to feed its class D output stages, which have negligeable PSRR, and people seem to like the thing. Comments?
Francois.
An engineer (or engineering wannabe like me 🙂 ) would
have taken measurements with a distortion analyzer
and an oscilloscope if it didn't 'sound right'.
Might have caught some oscillation. Simply tinkering
blind without testing to confirm normal operation is
risky. I know most DIYers don't have any test gear
beyond a DMM nor much technical knowledge, but
that's the chance you take.
To mangle an old saying, measure twice, then
listen. Lots of engineers do this, too. I did extensive
modifications on my all-JFET Hafler SE-100 preamp,
in the process discovering my mods had caused
one of those wretched 7815s to go unstable, which
a local 10 uF cap on the output cleared up.
Call it double confirmation. And it did sound better
afterwards.
(Hey, Carlos! You know what they say about
'French military victorys'...Cinco de Mayo! 😀 )
have taken measurements with a distortion analyzer
and an oscilloscope if it didn't 'sound right'.
Might have caught some oscillation. Simply tinkering
blind without testing to confirm normal operation is
risky. I know most DIYers don't have any test gear
beyond a DMM nor much technical knowledge, but
that's the chance you take.
To mangle an old saying, measure twice, then
listen. Lots of engineers do this, too. I did extensive
modifications on my all-JFET Hafler SE-100 preamp,
in the process discovering my mods had caused
one of those wretched 7815s to go unstable, which
a local 10 uF cap on the output cleared up.
Call it double confirmation. And it did sound better
afterwards.
(Hey, Carlos! You know what they say about
'French military victorys'...Cinco de Mayo! 😀 )
Damon Hill said:
Which mods were that?
You probably tried them, but every time I replaced a 7X15 with an LM3X7 I had sound improvements all over.
Are we going to talk soccer now? Remember I come from Brazil and Argentina!
Carlos
Hey Carlos,
You have a funny idea about engineers. Basically an engineer tries to get the best performance by intelligently combining techniques, parts, layout, etc. Measurements are a great help to see if you are going the right way.
That doesn't mean that it must replace listening, of course. But saying hey, I tried 100uF, and it sounds good doesn't seem a very smart way to try to get the best from what you have available. I mean, maybe 50uF sounds even better! Measurements and knowing what you are doing can help you see in which direction and how far to go.
Jan Didden
You have a funny idea about engineers. Basically an engineer tries to get the best performance by intelligently combining techniques, parts, layout, etc. Measurements are a great help to see if you are going the right way.
That doesn't mean that it must replace listening, of course. But saying hey, I tried 100uF, and it sounds good doesn't seem a very smart way to try to get the best from what you have available. I mean, maybe 50uF sounds even better! Measurements and knowing what you are doing can help you see in which direction and how far to go.
Jan Didden
Christer said:
Well then, I'm sorry too.
This net thing is too slow and the smile didn't appear on your post.
analog_sa said:
Man, I just gave a suggestion for Nuuk to try it.
I didn't say it's the only value.
I said it to try this on HIS circuit, as it seams that HIS circuit is sensitive to these small changes.
BTW I think that, as always, the cap must be NEAR the component (in this case the regulator).
If that's not practical, at least a small 0.1uf near the regulator.
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