well speaking of distortion some tube equipment have a lot of it and still are quite appreciated
I am simulating some line stages of which i downloaded the service manuals They are products that have received positive opinions
Maybe i am hearing things but when the recording is very good a great equipment disappear in some ways
The listening experience is more complete when one listens blindfolded Looks can be deceiving
But as someone has said the room often is the first problem
I met a sound technician who told me that he had worked in a theater with a great acoustic
A simple boombox placed on a chair on the stage was able to fill all the theater with decent sound
From CrAzY LaNd - I wonder if anyone's built a speaker that, with no input, its cone is offset some, its VC isnt centered in the gap. Then, to get it back to normal, you have to push on it with some level of DC bias.
So in the quiescent state (no sound) there's always a DC current flowing, or, "class A speaker". Then to make sound, you AM modulate the DC flow with some AC and the cone moves as it normally would.
That certainly puts a cap on how loud you can go, before coming out of the class A operation. But who cares, when all that minutiae stuff we hear within the soft passages is still within the DC current.
Now I'd have no idea how to build such a thing, but far more difficult engineering problems have been solved. Even a "fake" one to try, made out of some ordinary FR speaker, by perhaps crushing its frame some in a hydraulic press.
So in the quiescent state (no sound) there's always a DC current flowing, or, "class A speaker". Then to make sound, you AM modulate the DC flow with some AC and the cone moves as it normally would.
That certainly puts a cap on how loud you can go, before coming out of the class A operation. But who cares, when all that minutiae stuff we hear within the soft passages is still within the DC current.
Now I'd have no idea how to build such a thing, but far more difficult engineering problems have been solved. Even a "fake" one to try, made out of some ordinary FR speaker, by perhaps crushing its frame some in a hydraulic press.
You could ask yourself, is there a difference between static spring tension, air pressure and motor offset?
Or like riding a bicycle with one flat tire
It seems to just waste energy.
But if you need a magical bicycle
you can flatten one tire for
Asymmetry
It will be at one with the mystical earthly
atmosphere as well.
Woaahh mind blown
Or for your thoughts on a "Compromise " Using " Single Ended" stage
followed by a Push Pull stage.
This is basically hundreds of common class A/B amplifiers
Where Second Gain stage is Class A
and it drives the complementary output.
It seems to just waste energy.
But if you need a magical bicycle
you can flatten one tire for
Asymmetry
It will be at one with the mystical earthly
atmosphere as well.
Woaahh mind blown
Or for your thoughts on a "Compromise " Using " Single Ended" stage
followed by a Push Pull stage.
This is basically hundreds of common class A/B amplifiers
Where Second Gain stage is Class A
and it drives the complementary output.
Ironically the original patent used PNP outputs in germanium days.
But yes Quasi Complementary was a common output topology with NPN outputs
when high power BJT transistors came about.
And quite a few die hard fans on the forum
who build Quasi outputs
New designs or known classics.
For musicians
High power was needed for bass amps.
So one of the first high power solid state bass amps.
Made its debut on the 1969 Woodstock stage
and was Quasi Complementary output.
Acoustic 360 preamp with amplifier built in the 361 bass bin
Last edited:
Hi thanks for the useful advice
However the output stage can be made with many single ended stages?
Like many single ended buffers in parallel
Perhaps another story is relevant here. Is an speaker operated by both sides, balanced, or only by one? Here, too, it is the power supplies that make the main difference: if we only have one side, the power supply character modulates the signal very audibly. If we apply this one power supply, this one character to both sides, the two identical characters cross over - however, we hear twice the number of amplifiers, i.e. parts. My experience here is - in the transistor range: it is better to have one power supply character and fewer parts, because transistors have a "technical", "artificial" character, for example due to encapsulation and plastic material.
The static air pressure is 1 atmospere at sea level. Consider that a 'DC pressure'.
Sound waves alternately increase and decrease that pressure to generate sound.
It will not go to zero, as that would be a vacuum.
Jan
Not really
Its pretty simple.
If idle current is incredible high.
You just need more power to satisfy its current draw.
Then current needed for actual output AC current.
Well you need that too.
The audible difference between a metal can transistor
and equivalent plastic package is = Zero
Transistor exceeds human hearing both ways in frequency.
This seems to be a common artifact in audio world.
people " imagine" issues that are non existent.
And spend to much time worrying about non existent
problems. Or told magical stories that makes things " better"
otherwise also imaginary.
Same with speaker construction. Many speakers dont
"sound right" because they look strange.
But in reality strange things can actually improve sound.
And what works better, might be opposite of imagined
to be right.
We hear with our ears not our eyes. In that aspect.
technically we hear or process with our minds.
So it is much easier to make up things. That we " think"
sounds better. But is otherwise imaginary.
Much like when children , we might have thought
there was monsters in the closet. Or monsters under the bed.
As adults we now find it comforting and comical to be past
early fears.
Called the waterhole theory.
Small mammals are susceptible to being hunted
when going to drink at a water source, or even just standing
in a field being relaxed not paying attention.
Larger animals use this as a advantage to take prey by surprise.
To adapt as small mammals. If your constantly worried or constantly
in fear. Your more likely to pay attention not be prayed upon/ hunted.
We are designed by nature to constantly worry or think something is wrong.
This will explain the cons and tribunes of many drug companies.
Always worried, always anxiety, always depressed.
Its actually basic brain function, not a " Disease"
To be cured by pills for sale.
It is closer to reality as kids, we think a monster is in the closet
and is going to hurt us. Basically what nature intended, worry
something is going to hunt you down. Completely imaginary
so your ready for the real thing.
Last edited:
I recommend an audio beginner's exercise here: simply try to hear a difference between channel-separated psus and these connected. The first thing is to hear whether there is an audible difference. We want to hear whether equal parts sound different or not.
I can only recommend this exercise, but I can't do it for you;-)
I can only recommend this exercise, but I can't do it for you;-)
Since the ear contains a pocket of air of quite small volume behind the eardrum, distortion is generated within the ear. It's probably "tuned out", but it's interesting how there seems to be a preferred polarity for single-ended sound reproduction, such that it would have the greatest chance of cancelling out some of that internal distortion.
Hi very interesting I notice that usually Class A amplifiers are well judged on a sound basis
Could it be that is due also to their single ended nature maybe ?
I do not think that is a matter of low distortion because also with AB designs a very low THD can be obtained
Very interesting Thank you very much Then maybe also single supply with cap at the output ? also used in the past
I see some rediscovery of vintage gear Maybe it is due also to their characteristic sound ? Some old amps have cap coupled output
If one were to put a scope on the plate of the output tube in a Single Ended tube amp and observe the wave form a few things would be come evident. The plate is resting at a voltage slightly below the B+ voltage at idle with no music playing. Apply music at a high enough level and one would see the wave form traversing a voltage range from nearly zero to almost TWICE the B+ voltage. Where does this extra voltage come from? It is created by the energy stored in the magnetic field in the transformer's core as it collapses inducing a voltage in all of the windings on the core. This puts an AC voltage on the secondary capable of pushing the speaker cone outwards, AND pulling it backwards from its zero signal idle position. This was verified with a tiny mirror fragment and laser beam making lines on the wall.
Back in the 90's I bought one of the shiny new Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16 cards and built my first digital recording system capable of realistic music storage and playback. At the same time my daughter played in the high school band and we had a music room with all sorts of weapons including a full drum cage full of drums. I spent some time and money making recordings of percussion and other sounds. I learned two important things over a two or three year period.
1) Never put a Shure SM57 INSIDE the bass drum. It won't sound right after that.
2) Of all the studio monitor speakers in the under $1K per pair range in Sam Ash Music's recording studio the Yamaha NS-10M Studio Monitors were the only set that got the snare drum sound right. I still have them.
Back in the 90's I bought one of the shiny new Media Vision Pro Audio Spectrum 16 cards and built my first digital recording system capable of realistic music storage and playback. At the same time my daughter played in the high school band and we had a music room with all sorts of weapons including a full drum cage full of drums. I spent some time and money making recordings of percussion and other sounds. I learned two important things over a two or three year period.
1) Never put a Shure SM57 INSIDE the bass drum. It won't sound right after that.
2) Of all the studio monitor speakers in the under $1K per pair range in Sam Ash Music's recording studio the Yamaha NS-10M Studio Monitors were the only set that got the snare drum sound right. I still have them.
Sorry, that's nonsense. A single ended amp generates alternating rarefacting and compressing acoustic waves like any other amp.
The speaker sits in the mid position without signal and from that rest position moves in and out to generate sound, whatever amp you use.
You may think that a single ended amp generates single ended acoustics. That is not the case.
Jan
Hi thank you very much indeed for the very valuable explanation If i remember well it is the first time that i read a very positive comment on the Yamaha
Usually their diffusion in recording studios is explained because they have become fashionable
Even someone said that being of poor quality they were a good reference for evaluating recordings that would then have to play on poor quality home systems
Obviously I had no idea how good they were Reproducing very dynamic sounds well is no small feat
Just stick a vacumm cleaner in the port. You could have the driver mounted at 45 deg, so gravity would pull it into the speaker.
I think you misread me slightly. I was just referring to the 'H2' character of the distortion, where the positive-going peak of a sine wave would extend slightly further out than the negative peak going in. A perfectly linear change in pressure on the ears, like multiplication or division by 1.05 would either move the eardrums out to 105% or in to 95.238%, hypothetically.
Last edited:
There are many stories, mysteries, and false claims that follow the NS-10 series of speakers. Some are more true than others. The NS-10 has gone through several changes since they were introduced as the little brother to the NS1000 in the 70's and indeed intended as a consumer bookshelf speaker where it failed in the marketplace. A famous studio engineer (possibly Bob Clearmountain) wanted a pair of small speakers that could be moved from the studio to the home and other places so that he had a consistent reference. I remember a quote that the NS-10's had the unique property of "making every mixing and mastering mistake clearly audible" and "If it sounds good through the NS-10's it will sound good everywhere else."
That seems to be the entry point to its long run as a studio monitor. I got mine when the second gen (no tissue paper required) tweeter was introduced and the NS-10M STUDIO brand was screened right on the front. I went into several large music stores over a several month period with some CD's and tapes of my DIY drum and acoustic guitar recordings. There were several nice sounding systems, but the $300 per pair price of the Yamaha's sealed the deal.
That seems to be the entry point to its long run as a studio monitor. I got mine when the second gen (no tissue paper required) tweeter was introduced and the NS-10M STUDIO brand was screened right on the front. I went into several large music stores over a several month period with some CD's and tapes of my DIY drum and acoustic guitar recordings. There were several nice sounding systems, but the $300 per pair price of the Yamaha's sealed the deal.